jumpwally 0 #76 June 28, 2006 Fuck PD.................smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudi 0 #77 June 28, 2006 Too much information confuses people and makes them lash out...obviously. So, bottom line: -costs for materials has gone up, so has price for the product -PD is setting policies in place to help prevent bad business, to weed out "dealers" who offer nothing but a discount, and to keep good dealers in business. -No one is "hiding" canopy prices. They are clearly listed on the website. Anything less than that from the dealer is a bonus. No one wants to see prices go up, but you can't survive if you don't keep up with the inflation around you. Did no one see this coming as they pumped gas into their cars for the past year? I'm sure PD could use materials of lesser quality, stop R&D, skip the dealers and sell direct, not staff quality people to do quality work, cut down on staff altogether and rarely return emails & phone calls, take their sweet time with canopy orders & maintenance, cut off sponsorship, reduce or eliminate the demo program, not send reps to events, not support progress in the sport, sacrifice on safety, and not promote education. They could probably sell canopies pretty cheap then. Fortunately for people who care what's on their back when they leave the plane, that's not PD. Hey, then they can change their name to Discount Designs. The company slogan can be "They may work, they may not, but at least they're cheap!" You get what you pay for. If that's what you're looking for, maybe you're in the wrong sport. No one ever said skydiving was cheap, but I heard there's a good sale on bowling balls & golf clubs... Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #78 June 28, 2006 QuoteToo much information confuses people and makes them lash out...obviously. Honestly? You shouldn't release two pieces of information relating to the same subject in the same press release and not expect people to get confused. Two separate press releases, a month or so apart, would have made the process of communicating the changes to your customers much simpler. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #79 June 28, 2006 Quoteto weed out "dealers" who offer nothing but a discount, and to keep good dealers in business. First of all, I have no stake in this and could care less about PD's policies. I would guess that there is a substantial segment of your potential customer base that is only interested in the lowest discount and do not feel they will need “customer service”.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #80 June 28, 2006 Quote-No one is "hiding" canopy prices. They are clearly listed on the website. Anything less than that from the dealer is a bonus. Again I have no stake in this, this is just an observation. Before the policy went into effect the dealer would list the MSRP and the price that the dealer would sell a PD canopy to the end user for. The end user is not buying the canopy from PD they are buying it from the dealer so the while the MSRP is nice it means very little to the jumper shopping for a new canopy. They should be able to deal directly with the dealer.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #81 June 28, 2006 Quote-No one is "hiding" canopy prices. They are clearly listed on the website. Anything less than that from the dealer is a bonus. Where?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #82 June 28, 2006 QuoteQuote-No one is "hiding" canopy prices. They are clearly listed on the website. Anything less than that from the dealer is a bonus. Again I have no stake in this, this is just an observation. Before the policy went into effect the dealer would list the MSRP and the price that the dealer would sell a PD canopy to the end user for. The end user is not buying the canopy from PD they are buying it from the dealer so the while the MSRP is nice it means very little to the jumper shopping for a new canopy. They should be able to deal directly with the dealer. I don't see what the big hubub about this is... I went to my favorite dealer, and when I clicked "add to cart" - it added the canopy at the sell price... I also clicked a link, and their e-mail server sent me a customized quote. I could order the canopy if I wanted to at 3 in the morning... Another dealer who I hear good things about, I never order from, because most of their prices have "call" next to them. I don't want to call for each item... The creative dealers will still serve their customers well, both the ones who call and ask a lot of questions - and the ones who just want to order something online in the middle of the night. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #83 June 28, 2006 QuoteI don't see what the big hubub about this is... Like I said, makes no difference to me. My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #84 June 28, 2006 QuoteNo one is "hiding" canopy prices. They are clearly listed on the website. Anything less than that from the dealer is a bonus Sorry, that is simply not true. Car retailers don't paint the MSRP on winshields, they paint the local price. Safeway doesn't advertise the MSRP, they advertise the actual price. Hiding retail prices is anticompetitive, and disrespectful to consumers. It's never a good idea. Good retailers owe it to their customers to push products from companies that respect the consumer. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #85 June 28, 2006 PD snobs crack me up. I care about what's on my back...sorry, but PD stuff is not the only good product out here. No price listed makes me think you have something to hide or that it's a hit-or-miss on getting a "good" price or that your price changes on a whim rather than reality.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base935 0 #86 June 28, 2006 Again, is PD the only one pulling the "everything costs more, so the prices have to go up" card, or are all the other canopy manufacturers whining too? And, good thing PD is sending all of their sewing and production to Honduras, otherwise we would have heard about this long ago! And, there are a lot of excellent designs that aren't made by PD... -----------------------------------Gravity Research Institute Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #87 June 28, 2006 QuoteAgain, is PD the only one pulling the "everything costs more, so the prices have to go up" card, or are all the other canopy manufacturers whining too? PD should price its products such that [units sold] * [price per unit] - opportunity costs is maximized. Whether it costs them $1000 or $100 in materials and labor is not directly relevant to that price, although it does set a lower bound on what the competitors can charge for similar products which would then cut into PD's sales. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,384 #88 June 28, 2006 >Safeway doesn't advertise the MSRP, they advertise the actual price. Right, but Vlasic doesn't advertise Safeway's actual price on pickles. Why should they? I don't have any problem with PD raising prices. Let em raise away, and then the market will find a new balance between their canopies and the (now) less expensive canopies. I just think it's funny that it's being billed as a way to help skydivers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #89 June 28, 2006 Quote >Safeway doesn't advertise the MSRP, they advertise the actual price. Right, but Vlasic doesn't advertise Safeway's actual price on pickles. Why should they? They shouldn't. I don't think publishing MSRP and having retailers publish discounts is very good either. Retailers should feel free to choose whatever price they want, and advertise that price. Retailers should even be able to sell at a loss - if they want to. Price competition is generally thought to be a good thing. Restricting competition by hiding retail prices does not help skydivers. I too, think it's funny (and disingenuous) that they're trying to spin it that way. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickanderson 0 #90 June 29, 2006 Cloudi, sorry, i know you need to sing the company song, but hear are suggestions, weed out "dealers" who offer nothing but a discount some people dont need anything but a discount skip the dealers and sell direct yes, yes, yes!!! cut off sponsorship yes, yes, i dont care what big name guys use PD, do you? not support progress in the sport huh? you give me 2 mph more with velocity and that is progress? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KellyF 16 #91 June 29, 2006 QuoteAgain, is PD the only one pulling the "everything costs more, so the prices have to go up" card, or are all the other canopy manufacturers whining too? I know you specifically mentioned canopy manufacturers, but just as an example, some of our hardware costs have more than TRIPLED in the last 4 years Some critical materials have been harder to get in a timely fashion also.VSE on Facebook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #92 June 29, 2006 QuoteMake no mistake, If retailers do not publish the current accurate price of a PD canopies, I will not buy a PD canopy. It's really is quite simple. Yay competition! _Am -signed. i've never had any issues with PD or their canopies, however i do my own research and data collection to decide what i buy from who, at what price... without published prices to weigh my decision against, PD removes their products from future consideration for the most part, there isnt anything magical about PD that makes the lack of data/pricing more acceptable from them or any other manufacturer.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #93 June 29, 2006 I think now would be a good time for people to get information of teh Demo program at their local Dropzone if there is an on site gear store that has a demo program. If I lived in NJ and jumped at Cross Keys all the time I would participate in Square 3's demo program, that why when I would have enough money down for a rig I would be at a size canopy that Ill be jumping for a long time.Divot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #94 June 30, 2006 ...but "demo programs" force you to buy all _new_ gear which to the majority of people isn't feasible. I'll stick with Precision canopies for now.NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #95 June 30, 2006 Most demo programs though allow you to drop a little bit of money at a time on said new gear, and if you jump frequently enough it is cheaper than renting gearDivot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #96 July 2, 2006 QuoteMost demo programs though allow you to drop a little bit of money at a time on said new gear, and if you jump frequently enough it is cheaper than renting gear the SquareX demo program is much better than the typical options out there. It would have been great to have something like it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #97 July 2, 2006 QuoteQuoteMost demo programs though allow you to drop a little bit of money at a time on said new gear, and if you jump frequently enough it is cheaper than renting gear the SquareX demo program is much better than the typical options out there. It would have been great to have something like it. I purchased a rig out of state from Square1... I visited Perris for a Performance Plus training camp - and they hooked me up for a few different demo options for like 20 different jumps - so I could try some stuff out... I can't speak highly enough of Square1, seriously... The amount of support they gave me was like the Lexus dealer giving my Mom a loaner for her auto, dropping it off at the house and picking up her car, when her car needed it's first oil change. You don't normally find that kind of luxury in this sport... Not to hijack this thread or anything... And even with the changes, you can go online to Square1 and get an instant quote via e-mail on any PD canopy... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #98 July 4, 2006 QuotePD is setting policies in place to help prevent bad business, to weed out "dealers" who offer nothing but a discount, and to keep good dealers in business. if i know what I want why should i pay for more than I need. Seem like a bad move in a market that is getting crowded and the number of consumers is shrinking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #99 July 5, 2006 Quote -PD is setting policies in place to help prevent bad business, to weed out "dealers" who offer nothing but a discount, and to keep good dealers in business. Whether I'm buying a canopy or some other piece of skydiving equipment, my choice of dealer hinges on exactly two things...convenience and price. If I'm at a boogie and need a new pair of goggles & some tube stows, I'm gonna buy from the gear store there because it's convenient. If I'm at home and need some cheap somethings, I'll call Square1 because they're convenient. But does ANYONE turn to their dealer for advice on which canopy they should buy?! Is it a wise consumer who goes to the automall and asks a salesman what kind of car he should buy? My conversations with gear dealers consist of "Hey 'Bob'...what price can you give me on such & such?" where I already know exactly what I want. I will continue to select my gear based on my own observations and the word of people I know who actually jump the equipment, not what a dealer suggests. I will also continue to advise novices to solicit gear advice from people who actually know them and who have seen them jump, not some voice on the other end of a phone who's primary interest is profit. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,384 #100 July 5, 2006 >I will continue to select my gear based on my own observations >and the word of people I know who actually jump the equipment, not >what a dealer suggests. I also choose gear based on what people who use the gear think - but in my case those people are often also dealers. A few examples - Square 1 got a Mamba 120ish sized demo canopy in that I tried. I didn't like it because it was so unstable in brakes. Dave Span put a few jumps on it, noticed the same thing, and got it retrimmed. He has since put a bunch more jumps on it and likes it a lot more now. Next chance I get I'm going to try it again to see what's different, since I trust his perceptions on it. Bonnie at Gravity Gear has tried most of the gear she sells at one point or another, and has talked to the people at Byron who do use it a lot. Often I'll call her and ask what people think about this canopy or that rig, and she'll have feedback from four or five different people (or her own experiences with the canopy.) It's pretty valuable to me to get that sort of feedback. I've measured myself for jumpsuits and rigs before (well, usually Amy does it) and often have to send the stuff back because it doesn't fit. Last time I ordered a jumpsuit I asked Brenda at Square 1 to measure me, and it fit the first time, which was nice. She's measured enough people, and fit them into enough suits, to know what they mean by "girth" for example. So dealers can indeed be useful, and I like to support the good ones because the sport is better off with them out there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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