Teaching kids self defense

[JackC 0]

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I've occasionally thought about learning how to forge one just because getting a real nice, well made blade is a very expensive proposition if you want it forged, folded, and tempered in the traditional way.

Tell me about it. I always wanted to make my own but after having done a few short blades I can tell you, it's one hell of a lot of work. You can make the actual forging easier with a gas forge and a hydraulic press but you really don't want to be folding your own katana with a sledge hammer unless you have arms like popeye.

After that, you've got to harden it and 1 in 3 will crack on you. Tempering is easy enough but if you over cook it, you've scrapped it (more or less). Then you get to polish it and that is the mother of all ball aches.

I remember the first folded blade I made, 1000 layers of tool steel meticulously forged and polished. I etched the snot out of it and there was no dicernable pattern to it at all. I was gutted. I should have stopped folding at 250 layers. Lesson learned.

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My hand forged iaito has a half decent blade, but shitty tsuba, menuki, and kashira. I plan to replace them at some point with better furnishings.

Even finding someone that can rebuild and re-wrap the tsuka costs a ton...

I do all my own wrapping and make my own saya's and everything and they're tough to make well. I'm still pretty shit at it to be honest.

I have to do stuff like this though, it's a disease.

[sv3n 0]

I agree sparing is essential, hitting a bag for your entire training session will teach you how to beat up a stationary bag real quick. But speed and power come with time............first you develop the precision and then the power. Take baseball for instance.......you can put up the biggest guy possible, but if he doesn't have the precision to hit the ball it's not going anywhere. Seals for instance, when learning CQB skills train at slow speeds......when one of their muzzles crosses a teammate, start over.........til they get it right......they train for precision and speed comes with time.

Also a good martial art doesn't require speed, there will always be someone faster. If you rely on speed you are bound to eventually fail, especially as a child. Same thing with power, there is always someone stronger. If you have to use power, your technique is ineffecient. And if you're hitting the right points you don't even need to hit hard.

As far as weapons are concerned, a good art will train you in an array of weapons and what they would relate to in a modern environment........bo staff = broomstick, sword = baseball bat, chain weapon = electrical cord, etc. When you see people use rolled up magazines used in movies like The Bourne Supremacy, that's improvised weapons work and it's very real. The reason why a lot of SF guys learn eskrimo/kali is because when they're off in the jungle and have nothing they can use things like sticks. You're out wandering in the park and four guys are attacking you are you gonna cage match them one by one, no you're gonna reach for the first thing you can get. Same thing in your house, let's see the gun is upstairs or the knives are in the kitchen....oh look that's hooked into an outlet with an extension cord.

Also things like boxing and kickboxing don't really leave you options...........a buddy of yours gets out of hand at a bar or some guy doesn't really deserve to get his butt kicked, if you only know how to kickbox what are you gonna do.....kick him lightly?

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Whatever MA you try, training without sparring is like skydiving without ever jumping out of a plane. And pick something agressive.

True. But you had best spar hard. MA training build a lot of muscle memory, also like skydiving.

If you regularly train to pull your punches, when you have a crisis and no time to think you will react just like you trained.

Spar. Wear protective gear. Hit hard.

Dont train soft or when the time comes you will hit soft.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[Broke 0]

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I dunno, I've blocked jabs that came completely out of the blue.

One of my favorite blocks of all time is when a kid at my high school threw a punch at me, and I didn't even see it. However I just put my hand up and caught his fist. I then turned to look at him, and the look on his face was priceless.

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
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SCR 14192

[Nightingale 0]

There are three important things to winning a fight. In order:

1. accuracy. you do have to actually hit the guy.
2. speed. you have to be fast enough to hit they guy before he moves
3. power. you have to actually cause damage, but if you're slow or inaccurate, power won't get you anywhere.

It takes all three combined to defeat an opponent.

[sv3n 0]

I don't believe it takes all three of those to beat an opponent. Otherwise a 110 lb girl couldn't win over a 180 lb man........the man will have more power. Also, speed.....if your opponent is faster are you doomed to defeat? No. It's the technique. Accuracy as well is not always required......some Ryu (schools) concentrate a lot on precision and accuracy, while others are schools which involve armor....and armor hinders your speed, power, and precision.

Accuracy is the most important, but I put little emphasis on speed and power. Those are things that come with time and training. Once you get your technique right those will come. But you do not need to be faster than your opponent. You can't rely on speed, there will be someone faster and you'll fail. For instance, any pressure point hit as you block puts your opponents mind elsewhere......he's concentrating on the pain rather than what's coming next. You just bought yourself a couple of moments in time to move to your next target and took his speed out of it. Same thing with power.....you take his kamae (stance or balance) and his or her power doesn't mean anything. Try landing a hard punch when your off balance. And you don't need power to do that, it's technique.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[MarkM 0]

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My experience is that martial arts are overrated.

When I used kenpo to save my life, I sure as hell didn't think it was overrated.

The OP isn't talking about life saving skills, but their kid not being bullied in school and I'd have to agree with lawrocket that psychology is a lot more important than learning how to fight.

I had martial arts training when I was young which didn't do much when a kid twice my size came at me. It wasn't until a month or so later when I got real tired of being picked on by him and slammed him into some lockers that he learned to leave me alone.

You don't have to win to be left alone by bullies in school, you just have to be not worth the trouble to bother with.

[Nightingale 0]

I have noticed that martial arts tend to give kids confidence, and confident kids are bullied less often, since bullies tend to prey on easy targets.

[Twoply 0]

Thanks for all the responses.

I know that I'd like them to be interested in honorable activity, be it Judo, wrestling or even archery. Activities like this helped me train how to calm my mind among the flurry of thoughts that flood one's mind when confronted with a situation.

I know for a fact that the priority is to be aware of surroundings and recognize a situation before it happens to evade or even to kinda prep your mind if it turns violent. Teach them to approach a teacher and tell them what my dad told me to say: "Mrs XXXX, Alan over there has thrown a crayon, shoes and his spiderman lunchbox at me. I've asked him to stop but if he continues, I'll defend myself." She actually thanked me for coming to her like I did and told me I was very mature.

But also when it comes right down to it and there is no other options, attack with everything you have and do not hold back. People will leave you alone.

I did end up busting poor Alan right in the cheek and he never even looked at me again. Bullies 0, Me 1. Stupid second grader.

[warpedskydiver 0]

I disagree, every fight is potentially the one that will end your life.

Kids may just be regular bullies, but that does not mean you won't smack your skull of the ground.

My friends uncle died at the metra station by being pushed down the stairs, by an angry bike messenger.

He was in his late fifties, had a young wife and was a college professor.

His wife sold everything and moved to Vegas whilst cheating her husbands kids out of everything including the old photos.

[ChrisL 2]

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Alan over there has thrown a crayon, shoes and his spiderman lunchbox at me.

The shoes and the spiderman lunchbox I can sort of understand, but that crayon is just over the top uncalled for

__

My mighty steed

[Douva 0]

Martial arts won't make you a better fighter than the next guy; martial arts will make you a better fighter than you are. Therein lies the merit.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Clownburner 0]

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Martial arts won't make you a better fighter than the next guy; martial arts will make you a better fighter than you are. Therein lies the merit.

They will make you a better fighter than without any training at all, though.

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth

[sv3n 0]

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Martial arts won't make you a better fighter than the next guy; martial arts will make you a better fighter than you are. Therein lies the merit.

It's a skill, like anything else.........skydiving for instance. There's techniques you pick up and there's techniques that you can learn. Plus the practice of doing it all the time will make you more comfortable in that situation and better than someone who's hardly ever in that situation.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[jme 0]

Good luck with teaching him some self-defense. As others have already said, the usefulness of training will depend on the school. I trained in Tae Kwon Do at a dojang that was great for kids. It not only built confidence and skills (I had a six year old girl almost choke me out, but grant it I wasn't fighting back), but it also stressed teamwork and honesty and other things you probably would like your kid to learn. At my dojang, they even got monthly updates from teachers at the students' schools and copies of report cards. If they got into trouble, they weren't allowed to come to class until they made amends. So it could also be a good motivator for kids to behave and do well, too, but only if you're at the right school. Good schools will let you try out a class or two before you join and you can usually get a good sense of the place after your kid goes through the class and you have time to talk to the other parents about how they like the school.

[riddler 0]

Seems like these days, self-defense means defending yourself from someone with a gun. I don't think of martial arts as a way to fight - what good is it against someone (even a kid) with a gun?

OTOH, martial arts, like dancing, swimming, whatever teaches kids great coordination, and especially can give them discipline (which is what many kids in our society seem to lack), and personally, I think can even improve their mental concentration.

I plan to teach my daughter kung fu for exercise and discipline, but also the many ways to avoid fighting. It's not worth fighting these days. When I was a kid, I never saw anyone get into serious trouble in school for fighting - we were all on our own. These days, they kick you out of school for one fight. Sure, kids in my school had knives, etc, but we never had guns. I see kids just on my block waving guns around, and even occasionally firing them in the street. Why fight with another kid if they've got a gun?

I don't think martial arts is much good for self-defense anymore, but it's still great exercise. Self defense means having a cell phone and knowing how to talk your way out of situations.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[d_squared431 0]

I signed the 6 year old up for karate tonight. He starts his first class on Monday. I would like for him to know that if one day he is put into a situation he has the skills and knowledge to protect himself. He has been asking to take Karate since last year so I told him he can try it for a month and if he likes it we will continue.

TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1
I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH
You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly

[sv3n 0]

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Seems like these days, self-defense means defending yourself from someone with a gun. I don't think of martial arts as a way to fight - what good is it against someone (even a kid) with a gun?

OTOH, martial arts, like dancing, swimming, whatever teaches kids great coordination, and especially can give them discipline (which is what many kids in our society seem to lack), and personally, I think can even improve their mental concentration.

I plan to teach my daughter kung fu for exercise and discipline, but also the many ways to avoid fighting. It's not worth fighting these days. When I was a kid, I never saw anyone get into serious trouble in school for fighting - we were all on our own. These days, they kick you out of school for one fight. Sure, kids in my school had knives, etc, but we never had guns. I see kids just on my block waving guns around, and even occasionally firing them in the street. Why fight with another kid if they've got a gun?

I don't think martial arts is much good for self-defense anymore, but it's still great exercise. Self defense means having a cell phone and knowing how to talk your way out of situations.

Martial Arts isn't just about physical self-defense, there's mental self-defense too...........just don't put yourself in that situation, if you are in that situation then try to walk away, if that doesn't work try to talk your way out of it, and finally if all that doesn't work and you're forced to defend yourself then only do that if you are backed into a corner so to speak. There's way more to learn than block and kick. They teach kids how to deal with strangers at a mall following them, or strangers asking them to help find their dog, give them self confidence to deal with bullies,etc.........the physical stuff is a last resort. And the only way to act properly in those situation is to practice them. Plus a lot of times, they train for situations that most parents just wouldn't think of.

As far as the gun thing......if you have training or not and are in that situation, you will be better off having learned some disarm techniques. But once again, that's only as a last resort after all your "mental" techniques have failed.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[skydivermom 0]

My son has been in martial arts for about a year now. He's learned all kinds of tricks for getting out of sticky situations, including how to handle someone with a gun. Hopefully he doesn't get in a situation where he has to defend himself against someone with a weapon, and hopefully his skills will save him if he does. I still think it's better to be prepared than not.

Mrs. WaltAppel

All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28

[sv3n 0]

Sounds like your son enjoys it. And I agree, it is definitely better to be prepared.........you train because it could happen, not because you know it will.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[Jewels 0]

I think this is an interesting thread. Self-defense today is a lot different than when I was in school, of course, but I'm not crazy about the direction it's taking where it seems that so many people feel it's necessary to get this kind of training to protect themselves.

My hesitations are largely based on the five-year old son of a friend of mine who went through this same thought process: Teach him to defend himself before he goes to school, and martial arts are the way to go.

I will be the first to agree that what and how kids are taught has a lot to do with it, but at that age, he didn't have the self-checking ability to absorb the thought-processes of martial arts. He DID have the ability to absorb the idea that it was sanctioned punch- and kick-throwing and the whole "defense" concept went right out the window. When I was being hit, his mom was pleased because she wanted him to be able to defend himself. She didn't allow him to continue it, but there was no instruction as to why. I have serious doubts that he would willingly curb his own behavior if he got frustrated with someone on the playground.

I guess my question is, at what age do you think kids can process the difference between just hitting and kicking and how to use it for defensive purposes only?

TPM Sister #102

[sv3n 0]

It varies from teacher to teacher and from child to child, but I found an article that sort of goes over the question of what age kids should start............

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At What Age to Start Martial Arts?
Guest Author - Caroline Baker

Many people have opinions on when is the best age to start Martial Arts. I personally believe it's never too late to start. I've know several older gentleman who are beyond their 50's and only started Martial Arts recently. They happen to also be some of the best students on the floor and can often out-last their younger classmates.

But how young should someone start Martial Arts? This is often a topic of debate among many Martial Artists.

Must be 16 or older. Some teachers and styles insist that a student not start until they are at least 16 years of age or older. These are often the more combat oriented styles. Because of the combat and high potential for getting hurt, there is a desire to wait until the bones have mostly finished forming and major structural damage can be minimized. In addition, it is hoped that the level of maturity of the student is of sufficient capacity to realize that their Martial Arts is dangerous and can maim or kill. Thus, it should only be used as an absolute last resort. Finally, in a style that will inflict bruises and a society that is keenly aware of child abuse, it is often difficult to explain the type of bruises a practioner will have on them when they are on a young child.

Any where from 5 to 10 years of age. This age range is very common these days. The younger bound is set by the idea that if they are old enough to attend school and function there, they should be able to function in a Martial Arts school. It is also the age range that parents are often looking for things to get their children involved in. Many schools offer an after-school program that helps parents to keep children active and off the streets. On the upper end of this age range, children will start to enter into the "rebellious" teenage years. The sense of independence is often in battle with their self-esteem and awareness of their bodies. Parents seeking to help their children learn discipline, confidence, and keep them motivated in a healthy lifestyle will often start their children at this age in Martial Arts.

Age 3 to 4. Rarely does a student start before the age of 3. In fact, rarely do many students start in this age range. There was a time when it was believed that one had to start this early. This is when the body just begins to form and starting this soon will keep the body nimble and fearless. In fact, many Wu Shu programs in China begin to recruit students as early as 3. The success of these children at this age though highly depends upon the child. Some children are exceptional. A criteria that many teachers look for in such young students is: (a) the ability to stand skill for more than a few minutes at a time; (b) the ability to follow simple instructions; and (c) the ability to mimic what is shown to them. Teachers don't expect a lot from students at this age but it is often a joy to see the young toddlers perform.

When to start Martial Arts is truly an individual or parental decision. It's never too late to start, but sometimes it's too early. Understanding your child and the reasons you want to join Martial Arts is an important component to picking what is the right age for your young one to begin.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[Jewels 0]

Interesting article! Sounds like the consensus is that there is no consensus on the "right" age to begin. I'm sure that a lot of factors come into play, like the nature of the class instruction and the personality of the child. Thanks for digging that up!

TPM Sister #102

[sv3n 0]

I think it has to do with the teacher and the parents. It's the teacher's responsibility to instill those morals and teach the kids when and where to use that stuff. There's usually a punishment system for using it when you're not supposed to. And it's the parents responsibility to monitor their child and enforce the same rules as their teacher in regards to the martial arts and to notify the teacher if something happens. If your friend thought it was cute, then assuming the child was probably encouraged to do that.......my guess is the teacher would have thought different, but that the child didn't act that way in class.

I've heard of children studying before the age of 2.....so I think it's possible at any age. It all depends on how it's taught.

...and you're in violation of your face!