Falling out of your rig? Ever heard of this?

[tdog 0]

I pitched a bit head low while wingsuiting, where I brought both arms behind my back after the throw. I felt the straps slide a tad down my arms.

Ever since then I make my chest strap tighter on wingsuit jumps, and my BASE rig is very tight by harness design where it won't happen...


And, without a bungee on my leg straps on my Vector, I can get the rig off in 2.3 seconds flat by bending in half at the waist and initiating it sliding off by bringing the leg straps to the back of my knees... But the bungee will prohibit the leg straps moving down and I can't get out of it with the bungee installed. Bill Booth I think calls this "the hole", and it was the culprit of a paraplegic tandem skydive tragedy.

Sitflying butt low and knees high could cause the "hole problem" as there are photos/articles that show this problem.

I have a video of a guy using a rental rig backflying with perfect body position but with his legstraps moving up to his knees... A few more inches and he would have had a bigger issue, especially on a premature deployment...

[kallend 1,623]

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Not to mention that there's no main in the tray allowing additional flexibility.

There wouldn't be a main in the tray during a premature main deployment either.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,396]

It is possible. It is VERY hard to have happen accidentally. I've seen horrendously fitting loose rigs hold people in even when they track or arch halfway out of them. Tandem harnesses are easier to fall out of since different forces are at work, and the harness is loaded somewhat differently.

That bungee thing is not to hold you in your rig during a hard opening; neither is the chest strap. (That's why the hardware is wimpy.) Their purposes are to keep the loadbearing parts of the rig (MLW's, leg straps) in the right place.

[douwanto 22]

I started jumping in 1996. Since 96 there have been 2 incidents that I remember of skydivers being ejected from their rig during opening because they failed to correctly secure their chest strap.

This is very easy to do and that is why we all should be checking ourselves and everyone else while gearing up, on the way to the plane, climb to altitude and once again just prior to exit.

At around 80 jumps I found myself in freefall with my chest strap beating me in the face. (Thank goodness) other wise I would not have know I had a problem until too late. I routed the chest strap while in freefall and am here to tell it... now I constantly check mine and everyone elses....

The first incident
7/26/1998 Gonzalez, LA MAL,BIZ 20 26 ?/?
Description: The deceased was making a 2-way RW jump from 14,000, pulled high at about 5000 and fell from the harness during opening shock. She had failed to route her chest strap correctly.
Lessons:Check your gear. My chest strap get's checked at least three times, and I always look at other people's when in the airplane.

The second incident
8/19/2000 Lodi, CA BIZ 26 650 ?/?
Description: The deceased forgot to connect her chest strap, and slipped mostly out of her harness 5,000' after exit, while in a head-down position. While she still had a hold of the rig with her legs, she was unable to get back into the harness before deploying and was unable to hang on during opening.
Lessons:This incident illustrates how important it is to check chest/leg straps, pins, and handles before exiting the aircraft.

Uncle/GrandPapa Whit
Unico Rodriguez # 245
Muff Brother # 2421

[ridestrong 1]

Thanks for everyones input thus far... I definitely plan on more thorough gear checks for myself and checking others. Happy New Year!!!

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[captain1976 0]

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anyone that thinks that bungee strap is for holding you in your rig needs to fall out of it because they are morons! That is not what it is there for! NOt directly.

Don’t know why you even bother to respond to threads, based on your reputation you have no credibility anyway. You are simply a nuisance with some kind of kindergarten mentality making you seek out constant attention. So go away and do everyone a favor.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[Andy9o8 0]

Back in The Day we had full saddles and belly bands. Thank god design theory has greatly improved since then. After all, as the saying goes, "Redundancy kills."

[slcooper 0]

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I started jumping in 1996. Since 96 there have been 2 incidents that I remember of skydivers being ejected from their rig during opening because they failed to correctly secure their chest strap.

This is very easy to do and that is why we all should be checking ourselves and everyone else while gearing up, on the way to the plane, climb to altitude and once again just prior to exit.

At around 80 jumps I found myself in freefall with my chest strap beating me in the face. (Thank goodness) other wise I would not have know I had a problem until too late. I routed the chest strap while in freefall and am here to tell it... now I constantly check mine and everyone elses....

The first incident
7/26/1998 Gonzalez, LA MAL,BIZ 20 26 ?/?
Description: The deceased was making a 2-way RW jump from 14,000, pulled high at about 5000 and fell from the harness during opening shock. She had failed to route her chest strap correctly.
Lessons:Check your gear. My chest strap get's checked at least three times, and I always look at other people's when in the airplane.

The second incident
8/19/2000 Lodi, CA BIZ 26 650 ?/?
Description: The deceased forgot to connect her chest strap, and slipped mostly out of her harness 5,000' after exit, while in a head-down position. While she still had a hold of the rig with her legs, she was unable to get back into the harness before deploying and was unable to hang on during opening.
Lessons:This incident illustrates how important it is to check chest/leg straps, pins, and handles before exiting the aircraft.

Holy shit! And to the other guy who only held onto his chest strap in freefall and during deployment, HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!! Thanks to both of you for sharing your stories so that others can learn.

I don't check my chest strap and leg straps 3 times before and during a skydive, it's more like 20. I also visually inspect each and every person on the plane that I can see. Falling out of my rig is the greatest fear I have about skydiving. If someone with me on the plane fell out of their rig I would feel horrible!

Folks, we all need to realize that we are DEAD each and every time we jump out of a plane. The only thing that saves our lives is the trusty rig. Check to make sure you are properly attached to it like your life depends on it, because IT DOES!!!!!!!!!!

Why would anyone jump out of a perfectly good airplane? Cause the door was open!

[awagnon 0]

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anyone that thinks that bungee strap is for holding you in your rig needs to fall out of it because they are morons! That is not what it is there for! NOt directly.

Don’t know why you even bother to respond to threads, based on your reputation you have no credibility anyway. You are simply a nuisance with some kind of kindergarten mentality making you seek out constant attention. So go away and do everyone a favor.

I couldn't agree more. One look at his info. makes me disregard him completely. As a new jumper, I appreciate all of the helpful, serious, thoughful advice I read on this forum, but I realize some is just a crock. My main source of information is from the instructors and experienced jumpers at my DZ. Still, these discussions are thought provoking. A bit off topic. Sorry.

Alton

"Luck favors the prepared."

[timmyfitz 0]

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anyone that thinks that bungee strap is for holding you in your rig needs to fall out of it because they are morons! That is not what it is there for! NOt directly.

Don’t know why you even bother to respond to threads, based on your reputation you have no credibility anyway. You are simply a nuisance with some kind of kindergarten mentality making you seek out constant attention. So go away and do everyone a favor.

I couldn't agree more. One look at his info. makes me disregard him completely. As a new jumper, I appreciate all of the helpful, serious, thoughful advice I read on this forum, but I realize some is just a crock. My main source of information is from the instructors and experienced jumpers at my DZ. Still, these discussions are thought provoking. A bit off topic. Sorry.

I don't think you should disregard fincher completely. His response was in no way tactful but he is correct about the purpose of the bungee. billvon explained it better but basically said the same thing.

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billvon:That bungee thing is not to hold you in your rig during a hard opening; neither is the chest strap. (That's why the hardware is wimpy.) Their purposes are to keep the loadbearing parts of the rig (MLW's, leg straps) in the right place.

[ridestrong 1]

It seems like adopting some type of rear stabilizers from the container to the leg straps could be very beneficial-- similar to those on climbing harnesses (pic attached: Harness 1).

There is another new climbing harness (pic attached: Harness 2) that could also prevent sliding out the rig head first.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[kallend 1,623]

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I pitched a bit head low while wingsuiting, where I brought both arms behind my back after the throw. I felt the straps slide a tad down my arms.

Ever since then I make my chest strap tighter on wingsuit jumps, and my BASE rig is very tight by harness design where it won't happen...


...

I see lots of people jumping with very loose chest straps. I was taught by a very experienced (national and world RW medals, 400 way..) skydiver to have the chest strap tight, so I do.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Lastchance 0]

A few yrs back I ran to the plane basically putting my rig on as I ran. I alway check all straps and buckles several times on the way to altitude as I also did on this jump. The difference being that I was getting out at around 4500. At about 3500 I look down and see my chest strap completely free. What an eye opener. From then on I have never been in a big rush to get on the plane. Even with other people telling me hurry up. If I miss that load I'll be on the next one.

I may be getting old but I got to see all the cool bands.

[alabamaskydiver 0]

+1

[mjosparky 3]

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It seems like adopting some type of rear stabilizers from the container to the leg straps could be very beneficial-- similar to those on climbing harnesses (pic attached: Harness 1).

There is another new climbing harness (pic attached: Harness 2) that could also prevent sliding out the rig head first.

Skydivers will sacrifice their safety and jump a reserve overloaded by 50 pounds to save a few ounces and a little pack volume. What do you think the chances are of getting them to wear an OSHA type body harness?

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[selwynj 0]

So when you deploy there is still a main in your main tray? I think he was correct in taking the main out.

Edited : I see kallend has already addressed this issue

“It takes ten years to get ten years’ experience” Eric "tonto" Stephenson D515 PASA

[SafetyNate 0]

Good thread!
I think every one should put their rig on and slip out the top and bottom. This way one can see how, however unlikely, it is "possible". If you know how it happens, you can avoid getting into that circumstance.

Fact is, no matter how the rig is constructed, there is always a way out. I have had bruises on my arms above my elbows. I have opened with my legstraps in my knee pits.

Going back to belly bands and saddles is always an option. So is keeping the door closed on the plane.

Stay safe, stay in your harness!

[Heatmiser 0]

What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo

Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama

[Orange1 0]

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Interesting video but CLEARLY that is not a properly fitting harness. The shoulders are FAR too wide and the back of the yoke hangs half way down his back.

Sure, but lots of jumpers end up jumping with harnesses that don't fit properly. Especially inexperienced jumpers on student or rental gear or buying second hand gear that was custom made for someone else. Problem seems especially acute for smaller females. I've had rental harnesses start to slip down my shoulders on climb-out before... but have always had chest and legstraps well fastened and survived those till i got my own rig. (And I never, ever got out of the student habit of asking for a gear check and when I get back to jumping I plan to get back to that habit too.)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[shah269 0]

Just my two cents,
some one needs to redesign the system for girls.
The way the chest strap is set up doesn't exactly make things easy for the ladies.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[hangdiver 1]

A very good friend of mine, an infamous old jumper, mentioned to me the time he exited from 2k only to find the rig leaving over his head due to not latching the B12 leg straps. He rolled onto his back, let the straps fly up between his legs, snapped the B12s and rolled to his belly and dumped. He was a low puller anyway, I think he was open by 500' or so. Leaving the plane without your rig secured is not an automatic death sentence. YMMV

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[Orange1 0]

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Just my two cents,
some one needs to redesign the system for girls.
The way the chest strap is set up doesn't exactly make things easy for the ladies.

Chest strap issues aside, the main problem for me is the size of the harnesses generally available. Even the 'small' student harness at my DZ was too big. I guess as more smaller girls get into the sport more student and rental gear, decent 2nd hand rigs etc will become available but it does take time.

The main point though was that criticizing the scenario in the video because the guy was wearing an ill-fitting harness, imo wasn't appropriate, the fact is that many jumpers for whatever reason do end up jumping harnesses that are not an optimal fit.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[SafetyNate 0]

I agree,

I didnt think harness looked too ill fitting. So I watched it again. I still dont think it fits too bad and would not hesitate to jump it. So now this thread has me in my gear at my house looking like an idiot as I try to Houdini my way out. Here are my results. I have a new V3 Micron custom for me and fits perfect. All straps tight I can get ou the top and bottom just like the video.

You dont even have to sit down to come out the bottom. Just bend over like your are touching your toes, and pull on the shoulders. I have known this for many years and it come in useful if you need to get out of your gear quick.

Do any of you use the quick release cheststrap technique