do any other manufacturers or engineers support the speedbag?

[sundevil777 93]

Jump Shack started this, if you need to vent about how it is getting you worked up, I think you should look inward instead of expressing your irritation at the consumers that are trying to understand Jump Shack's stated position.

If the design change is for cosmetic purposes, or to improve durability, or to make it easier to pack, etc, then it is easy to consider it a minor change. When the design change is to prevent a catastrophic failure inherent in the old design, I think it is not reasonable to consider it a minor change.

When I first started to read about Jump Shack's speedbag, I thought if they really had an advantage, they should make a special point of it in their marketing. They have done exactly that for other unique aspects of their rig design, why not the speedbag?

Now I read that Jump Shack claims that the std freebag is dangerous, and that all mfgs have used other freebags in effect similar to the speedbag in order to pass their testing. This is a very serious accusation that has not been supported at all by Jump Shack, and specifically denied by some mfgs. I think that is an insult.

Even though the racer is not on my list of preferred containers, I had considered Jump Shack to be a mfg that would not compromise certain aspects of their design for appearance considerations. This was an honorable position for them to take. What they have now done is much less than honorable, in my opinion.

I think this might make for an interesting discussion at the next PIA convention.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Jump Shack started this, if you need to vent about how it is getting you worked up, I think you should look inward instead of expressing your irritation at the consumers that are trying to understand Jump Shack's stated position.

If the design change is for cosmetic purposes, or to improve durability, or to make it easier to pack, etc, then it is easy to consider it a minor change. When the design change is to prevent a catastrophic failure inherent in the old design, I think it is not reasonable to consider it a minor change.

When I first started to read about Jump Shack's speedbag, I thought if they really had an advantage, they should make a special point of it in their marketing. They have done exactly that for other unique aspects of their rig design, why not the speedbag?

Now I read that Jump Shack claims that the std freebag is dangerous, and that all mfgs have used other freebags in effect similar to the speedbag in order to pass their testing. This is a very serious accusation that has not been supported at all by Jump Shack, and specifically denied by some mfgs. I think that is an insult.

Even though the racer is not on my list of preferred containers, I had considered Jump Shack to be a mfg that would not compromise certain aspects of their design for appearance considerations. This was an honorable position for them to take. What they have now done is much less than honorable, in my opinion.

I think this might make for an interesting discussion at the next PIA convention.

I would suggest calling Jump Shack with questions. I don't think John monitors DZ.com very much, if at all. I don't think any valid conclusions can come from his lack of response here.

For Great Deals on Gear

[teason 0]

As I said before, I'm enjoying the debate. The reason I get worked up when I do is because sometimes people post rhetoric which skews the perspective of potential "consumers". I don't view your statements as someone "trying to understand Jumpshack's Position"

Now, I call it a major change if function is affected. Your point about preventing catastorphic faliure is noted but it remains the case that the function is the same as any other freebag. It just has a flap that creates extra locking stoes. A change that some say yields no advantage over the safety stoe.

Also, the Manufacturers that say they do not use anything other than standard freebags have been H/C manufacturers, not major canopy manufacturers as was orgionally put forth.

p.s. thanks for clarifying your points and elaborating. I feel better now, the debate just become more intellectually satisfying

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[Beatnik 2]

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Now I read that Jump Shack claims that the std freebag is dangerous, and that all mfgs have used other freebags in effect similar to the speedbag in order to pass their testing. This is a very serious accusation that has not been supported at all by Jump Shack, and specifically denied by some mfgs. I think that is an insult.

I think that this is the perception that some people are taking on the subject. Nowhere have I been able to find these exact words by jumpshack saying that standard freebags with a safety stow is dangerous. I believe this is a similar idea that some people have about antilocking brakes. If this same mentality was brought forth on all new products just because a manufacturer believes and tested a design that they believe is improved, there would be no new designs.

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If the design change is for cosmetic purposes, or to improve durability, or to make it easier to pack, etc, then it is easy to consider it a minor change. When the design change is to prevent a catastrophic failure inherent in the old design, I think it is not reasonable to consider it a minor change.

I am not trying to put you down, but if this is your beef with the issue I believe that there are other authorities that you should be bringing this up with not the many jumpers that are not able to control or do anything about this situation.

Has anyone ever thought that other manufacturers are not going to bring forth support for a product that is not theirs? Also, regarding testing, there are many products that get derived from other means. Such as the cold war. Now I have never worked for Jumpshack and know nothing about there research and manufacturing other than the standard tso testing. However, I do know that many ideas come forth from testing from a derived version of things from military applications. I am not saying this is the case with this, as I simply do not know. But from the things that I do about in this area, most people including myself are reluctant to talk about these things as they compromise security. In my line of work there are certain things that I would not tell anyone, this could be the case.

I wish people would think outside of the box on situations where they are not finding a solution for. If we all thought so negatively about any issue that comes up we would never go forward.

This is just my opinion on the matter. I am not trying to put anyone down but to expand on an area that no one seems to touch on. I personally support the speedbag and trust my life to it. If others don't, then don't use it. I think that they believe their design is addressing an issue that has not been addressed before and that it improves safety. By how much is another question?

The fact that rubber bands break and they are combined with a high drag pilot chute should address the issue that some people have with the number of locking stows. It is not like a safety stow where the rubber core breaks but it is still held together by the outer sheath.

This is just my $0.02 if it is worth anything.

[RMURRAY 1]

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I don't think John monitors DZ.com very much, if at all. I don't think any valid conclusions can come from his lack of response here.

Nancy has said to me they do NOT follow this forum regularly. As you can imagine it would be too time consuming and if anyone has a concern will call them directly.

rm

[darnknit 0]

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Has anyone ever thought that other manufacturers are not going to bring forth support for a product that is not theirs?

i was trying to substantiate a claim made in a different thread. eventually, the answer i got was "i mis-spoke."

i'm not anti-Jumpshack, i just want verification when people make certain claims.

pulling is cool. keep it in the skin

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Has anyone ever thought that other manufacturers are not going to bring forth support for a product that is not theirs?

i was trying to substantiate a claim made in a different thread. eventually, the answer i got was "i mis-spoke."

i'm not anti-Jumpshack, i just want verification when people make certain claims.

You didn't receive any additional information frrom me because you took a converstion from PMs to the forums.

I linked you to a thread where an engineer from anothr H/C manufacturer offered support for the speedbag. Had you asked me for clarification in a PM, you most llikely would have received it.

[darnknit 0]

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You didn't receive any additional information frrom me because you took a converstion from PMs to the forums.

the following quote is from a post in the voodoo vs. mirage thread, not a PM.

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Racer's speed bag has support among other h/c manufacturers.

i started this thread to seek verification of that claim. i do not recall violating any implied confidentiality regarding any PM i have ever recieved.

blue stuff,
p.j.

pulling is cool. keep it in the skin

[tso-d_chris 0]

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You didn't receive any additional information frrom me because you took a converstion from PMs to the forums.

the following quote is from a post in the voodoo vs. mirage thread, not a PM.

That was when I switched to PMs and linked you to the pertinent thread. Too bad the converstaion didn't stay in the PMs.

[JJEXP 0]

Waaaahhhhhhhhhh

[darnknit 0]

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That was when I switched to PMs and linked you to the pertinent thread. Too bad the converstaion didn't stay in the PMs.

you made a claim(on this forum) that other h/c manufacturers support the speedbag. i asked(on this forum) for verification of that claim. i never revealed the content of any PM i recieved.

i am not even sure what you are getting at. i am just trying to verify claims made on a public forum.

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That was when I switched to PMs and linked you to the pertinent thread.

as i have already said in the voodoo vs. mirage thread, i was not able to find anything similar to your claim in any post in the thread you referenced.

blue stuff,
p.j.

pulling is cool. keep it in the skin

[KellyF 16]

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Also, the Manufacturers that say they do not use anything other than standard freebags have been H/C manufacturers, not major canopy manufacturers as was orgionally put forth.

I was working for a major canopy manufacturer for the 240 knot drop tests that I mentioned previously.

VSE on Facebook

[tso-d_chris 0]

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That was when I switched to PMs and linked you to the pertinent thread. Too bad the converstaion didn't stay in the PMs.

you made a claim(on this forum) that other h/c manufacturers support the speedbag. i asked(on this forum) for verification of that claim. i never revealed the content of any PM i recieved.

i am not even sure what you are getting at. i am just trying to verify claims made on a public forum.

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That was when I switched to PMs and linked you to the pertinent thread.

as i have already said in the voodoo vs. mirage thread, i was not able to find anything similar to your claim in any post in the thread you referenced.

blue stuff,
p.j.

*shrugs shoulders, turns around and walks off, wondering why some people find it so difficult to do research*

For Great Deals on Gear

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Waaaahhhhhhhhhh

LOL

[darnknit 0]

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"I think any question that makes people think is a good question."

i absolutely love your sig line.

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wondering why some people find it so difficult to do research

why would you say that? i did a search of the thread you referenced and didn't find anything that supported your position.

golly, that makes me think.

blue stuff,
p.j.

pulling is cool. keep it in the skin

[teason 0]

You'll notice Mike Forsythe defends the speed bag in alot of threads. Given who he is, your thread question was answered before you even posted.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[mjosparky 3]

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You'll notice Mike Forsythe defends the speed bag in alot of threads. Given who he is, your thread question was answered before you even posted.

Who is he and is he a "manufacture or engineer"? Just asking.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[teason 0]

Manager of engineering at RWS, unless something has changed recently(couldn't find him on the RWS site). He's listed in the "contact the manufacturer" thread.

I was getting snarky again, wasn't I Sparky
Thanks for keeping me in line

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[mjosparky 3]

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I was getting snarky again, wasn't I Sparky

"Snarky", thats it, you are getting "Snarky".

Sparky shakes his head and calls the home, "please send someone over he got out again."

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals