As a Rigger during a reserve repack do you re-pack the main?

[fugozzie 0]

I have a question for all you riggers out there; when doing a reserve repack do you also repack the main? I am curious what the general consensus is.

When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.

Leonardo da Vinci

[riggerrob 558]

I don't repack mains for four reasons.

1 - while working in Southern California, we (riggers) were so afraid of lawyers that we charged twice as much as "professional packers." This was a polite way of saying that we did not want the hassle or liability of packing both main and reserve.

2 - My current boss pays me for packing reserves, but not mains.

3- Lately I have been waaaay to busy to pack mains.

4 - A customer burned that bridge a couple of years ago. When he arrived - to retrieve his rig - no other staff member was available to pack his main, so I did. Then he made a series of mistakes (starting with exiting at "2,000 feet") that concluded with him hanging under two fully-inflated canopies. When he tried to blame me, he burned a bridge.

[mjosparky 3]

If I pack a main, I charge the same price as I do for a reserve. As a rigger I am held to the same standard for work done on a main as I am for work done on a reserve.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[sid 1]

I return a rig the way it came to me. If it comes ready to jump, it goes back that way, but with my pack job on the main. I always tell the customer that it's my pack job and if they want to repack it I won't be offended (some people have packing idiosynchracies that they believe "tame" or "control" their main pack job, I'm not going to argue with that).

Pete Draper,

Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right?

[rushmc 18]

I hook the main back up, take the main out of the D-bag and make sure it is on right. I know of one that cut away the main, reconnected it with the custormer pack job and put it back in.

On opening the customer was flying backwards with riser twists.

I ussually do not repack the main......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rasmack 0]

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If I pack a main, I charge the same price as I do for a reserve. As a rigger I am held to the same standard for work done on a main as I am for work done on a reserve.

I see that line a lot here. Is it really true? If so, wouldn't any DZ rigger be held responsible for a line-over packed by a packer under his supervision?

That being said I don't even expect to see my main hooked up when it comes back. If it is, I do a very thorough line check and pack the canopy myself the way I want it packed.

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[mjosparky 3]

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I see that line a lot here. Is it really true?

105.43 Use of single-harness, dual-parachute systems.

(a) The main parachute must have been packed within 120 days before the date of its use of a certificated parachute rigger, the person making the next jump with that parachute, or a non-certificated person under the direct supervision of a certification parachute rigger.

(b) The reserve parachute must have been packed by a certificated parachute rigger—

(1) Within 120 days before the date of its use,

While FAA regs. can be interpreted different ways by different people, the same language is used when referring to both main and reserve. I take this to mean the same level of care is required of the rigger in both cases.

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If it is, I do a very thorough line check and pack the canopy myself the way I want it packed.

I always find it strange that someone with trust a rigger to pack their reserve but would worry about weather they know how to hook up the main.

Disclaimer: This is only in the US.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[rasmack 0]

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I always find it strange that someone with trust a rigger to pack their reserve but would worry about weather they know how to hook up the main.

Oh, I trust him. I would just feel so stupid discovering a problem in the air that I could have caught on the ground.
Edited to add: So, it would be OK for a DZ packer to pack a reserve, as he is under the supervision of a rigger? Does that happen?

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[sid 1]

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Edited to add: So, it would be OK for a DZ packer to pack a reserve, as he is under the supervision of a rigger? Does that happen?

If that person is training to be a rigger, it could happen. We all had to start somewhere and you generally start by packing under the direct supervision of a rigger. However, the supervising rigger is sealing and declaring that system airworthy, so you'd better believe he/she is supervising it........

Pete Draper,

Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right?

[AirDive 0]

My rigger does not unpack the main before packing the reserve.

[jimmytavino 16]

I'm not a rigger,,, "but i DID stay at a holiday Inn express once. "Fact is, as a fun jumper who tries to be considerite of his rigger,,, I usually disconnect
my main at the 3 rings, leave the padded handle velcroed in place, and give the rig to one of a number of capable riggers whom I know and trust.
If it is feasible i'll don the rig and pactice my EP's, including full extraction and deployment of my reserve ripcord.. I only do that IF the rigger is right there,, Is cool with it, and has a container
of some sort to gather everything together. ( Usually the reserve container flaps get held closed and we're just looking for a good P C Launch)...I never let the reserve bag fall out onto the floor... I don't wanna get my rigger OR my reserve Mad !!!! at me.

[marinho 0]

Let me tell you our procedure in our company!
1-We disconnect the main and clean the cables.
2-Perform the inspection and repack.
3-Inspect the main risers, quick check on the main lines, slider, PC attachment point on the canopy, main deployment bag, main bridle and the pilot chute.
4-If something is found, we contact the customer to get the approval.
5-Finally, connect the main risers and perform the final check to make sure is connected correctly.

We tell to all of customers to bring their rigs with the main canopy unpacked.
That's part of our reserve repack services. If you want us to pack the main, you pay extra $6.00 "in cash" that goes to whoever packs it!
My point:
We are a "company" that provide rigging services and we also have our standards performing those services. It really doesn't matter if you want us to pack the main or not, but if you want, you just need to pay for it!
Just remember, a perfect packed main can still malfunction!!
Cheers,

Gus Marinho

[ChrisClark 0]

My rigger does not unpack the main before packing the reserve.***

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How does he/she inspect the container?

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[koppel 3]

As a rule i use the opportunity to make them go through their EP's. When they come to collect their rig I go through monthly maintenance with them. This way I know that at least once every six months the risers are gettng flexed etc I find that it's a great learning curve for my clients

edit:grammer

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[mjosparky 3]

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Edited to add: So, it would be OK for a DZ packer to pack a reserve, as he is under the supervision of a rigger? Does that happen?

Yes it does happen. There is some debate as to what is "under supervision". If a DZ packer is packing a reserve under my supervision it will not be at the DZ and I will be watching.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[riggermick 6]

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Edited to add: So, it would be OK for a DZ packer to pack a reserve, as he is under the supervision of a rigger? Does that happen?

Yes it does happen. There is some debate as to what is "under supervision". If a DZ packer is packing a reserve under my supervision it will not be at the DZ and I will be watching.

I believe the exact wording within the FAR's is "under the DIRECT supervision of an appropriatly rated rigger" , that means watching every move.

Mick.

[AirDive 0]

<< How does he/she inspect the container?

That only leaves the bottom outside wall of the reserve container uninspected and I do that myself.

[rigger_john 0]

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That only leaves the bottom outside wall of the reserve container uninspected and I do that myself.

It also leaves grommets, stiffners, binding, & the loop retainer uninspected, & thats off the top of my head if I sat and thought about it I bet that could be quite a long list of uninspected items.

_________________________________________

Nullius in Verba

[fcajump 153]

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I have a question for all you riggers out there; when doing a reserve repack do you also repack the main? I am curious what the general consensus is.

I agree with the statement that my work is held to the same standard on main and reserve. I do not usually pack the main, but if it is present I will do a line check and overall look to make sure nothing is out of the ordinary.

I would offer the following recommendations to rig owners:

KNOW your rigger
Use the chance to perform your EP's, BUT do so at the rigger's location so that the rigger can take control of the gear... I've had some come in where the owner left the seal up at the housing, pilot 'chutes snagged in the gear bag zipper, etc...
Request / ensure that the cut-a-way system be inspected and cleaned (see B.Booth for best practice here)
LEARN how to inspect your own harness, main and everthing else that is visible when the reserve is closed.

Just my $.02
Jim

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[rehmwa 2]

not a rigger here

I work with 2 riggers. One, I keep the main so he can pack the reserve without issue - I certainly trust him as my rigger and my friend.

The other inspects and packs the main as part of his cycle. I greatly appreciate the inspection and pack. He's one of the best riggers I know.

In both cases, I always unpack and double check my main. That's my responsibility no matter how good the other guy is. It's worth it with the second rigger to get his personal inspection of my main.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[pchapman 261]

I don't repack the main canopy.

Why? It seems to be one reasonable way to do things, it is the way I learned it, and is the way it 'usually seems to be done around here'.

The main risers are disconnected to make the reserve packing easier, to flex the risers briefly at the rings, and to clean the cables. After the reserve is done, the risers that were carefully laid aside are reconnected and the customer told to do a repack since it is considered his responsibility to confirm that the reconnection is correct. Often I close the main container with one or two flaps as a temporary measure to make the rig easy for the customer to carry off, yet still remind the customer that a repack is needed.

(Some jumpers may choose to un-bag the pack job, do a line check while the canopy is still rolled, and re-bag the canopy, 'saving' part of the pack job. But that's an advanced technique done at the jumper's discretion.)

[FreeflyGoat 0]

I tell my customers to give me their rig without the main attached. If it is attached or packed when it gets in the loft, I unpack it, inspect it, and repack it for an additional $10.
1. How many people actually inspect their main canopy systems? Probably about the same # that inspect their container before jumping all weekend. very few.
2. I believe that if the risers get disconnected it should at the very least be 4 lined. I do a full continuity check (and have found mains put on links incorrectly)
3. My customers can make their next jump with security knowing that they have a FULLY inspected system on their back.

I unpacked a main once, and while holding the lines up took the bag off the canopy. The canopy retained the shape of the bag, didnt budge one inch. Yea it woulda opened, but i wouldnt have wanted to jump it.

_________________________
goat
derka jerka bukkake jihad

[zenkith 0]

An interesting accounting of your actions concerning this 'reserve repack' I am completely familiar with the circumstances surrounding your actions as a rigger in this 'incident'. Firstly, the customer brought the rig to the DZ that emlploys you after experiencing a pilotchute-in-tow type malfunction. The customer had been having trouble with this 'locally manufactured' kill-line system for some time and gave you explicit instructions regarding a detailed inspection and evaluation of the operability of this device. From your explanation of how the main got repacked after the reserve repack, it is abundantly clear that no such inspection was done, as you obviously assumed that the work at hand was a simple reserve repack. Secondly, you go on to cite the series of errors that the customer made on the very next jump,including a grossly inaccurate exit altitude and delay time before deployment, at which time the pilotchute again failed,although as said customer deployed the reserve, there was enough drag exerted on the pilotchute to begin a partial main deployment as the reserve deployed. Your claims of the customer trying to blame you sounds somewhat sensitive, when in fact the customer was simply looking for info on who/what/when had transpired during the time the rig was in your custody, in order to help arrive at a definitive solution to an obviously unresolved pilotchute issue. the customer immediately ordered a RWS kill-line system and has had no problems since.You go on to state that these 'inquiries' about what work was done on the rig during it's stay in your care constituted a bridge being burned. Nice try!! The bridge was in fact burned by you with a repair job on another rig that the same customer was purchasing from your employer. This rig, a PD 230, required some simple repairs to steering lines, and an inspection for airworthiness. After you completed the work and the customer arrived to pick up the canopy, he realized that your sloppy attempt at repairing the steering lines was off by a full 13" on one side.....a real testament to the superiority you claim. The first terminal jump that the customer made on this rig, after having you correct your astoundingly sloppy work, resulted in a complete blow-up of the canopy, the result of material long since past it's prime. I do not claim to be knowledgeable enough to inspect materials on canopies, and I assumed that a qualified rigger such as yourself would be....MY MISTAKE. That was the last time you had any work, or referrals for that matter, from said customer. This customer has several thousand jumps, and has been an instructor, course conductor, instructor evaluator, examiner,etc since 1980. He is not looking to assign blame or cause friction...only to have confidence in his equipment, and especially in any rigger whose services he opts to enlist. I realize that your background as an airforce corporal/private does not give you much of a grounding in leadership/communication/acceptance of responsibility, etc.....but please do not attempt to use occurences such as these to inflate yourself at the expense of others. You never know who's listening

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I don't repack mains for four reasons.

1 - while working in Southern California, we (riggers) were so afraid of lawyers that we charged twice as much as "professional packers." This was a polite way of saying that we did not want the hassle or liability of packing both main and reserve.

2 - My current boss pays me for packing reserves, but not mains.

3- Lately I have been waaaay to busy to pack mains.

4 - A customer burned that bridge a couple of years ago. When he arrived - to retrieve his rig - no other staff member was available to pack his main, so I did. Then he made a series of mistakes (starting with exiting at "2,000 feet") that concluded with him hanging under two fully-inflated canopies. When he tried to blame me, he burned a bridge.

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[bob.dino 0]

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I realize that your background as an airforce corporal/private does not give you much of a grounding in leadership/communication/acceptance of responsibility, etc.....but please do not attempt to use occurences such as these to inflate yourself at the expense of others. You never know who's listening

I have no insight into the situation, or to what did or didn't happen, but if you're going to accuse someone of unethical behaviour, you could at least fill out your profile. Anonymous attacks on someone's character are cowardly - display some acceptance of responsibility and tell us who you are.

[mark 102]

What bob.dino said.

Mark