hd camcorders, are they worth it?

[TrophyHusband 0]

today i bought an hd camcorder, but now i'm probably going to return it. the problem is that the salesman told me it would hold about 5 hours of hd video on the hard drive. like an idiot, i believed him. i got it home and there isn't even a hard drive. the memory stick that comes separately holds 1 hour of video. are the hd camcorders worth the money? if so, what's a good camera?

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[PhreeZone 15]

Which camera did you get?

I'd keep it if it was one of the Sony line and just get some more memory cards to carry for it.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[TrophyHusband 0]

its the sony hdr-cx7. best buy had a deal going so i got a 4gig memory stick with it that is normally $70. good thing, because no memory stick came in the box with the camera. i would have been livid to get it home and have it be absolutely worthless. i really don't want to drop the money on more memory sticks. they're very small and look easy lose.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[pilotdave 0]

How much video fits on a 4 gig memory stick? (Edit: N/m, found that it holds about 30 mins).

It's supposed to be a nice little camera. Kinda nice that you could keep dumping videos to DVD or a computer and reusing memory sticks. Otherwise you'll be burning through a lot of MiniDV tapes on other cameras. I don't think I'd want a hard drive camera... can't just switch tapes/cards when it's full. MiniDV tapes hold an hour of video, and really shouldn't be reused.

If I was buying a camera now for use other than jumping, it'd definitely be HD. (I just don't have a camera helmet compatible with HD cameras). That CX-7 would definitely be on my list...

Edit: I s'pose memory cards would get a little expensive if you need to be able to record a few hours of video. But cheaper than MiniDV tapes in the long run. The REALLY long run...

Dave

[DSE 3]

For what it is, I'm a big fan of the CX7. Have several skydives with one. I'll have a couple of em' at Eloy next week for those that want to peek at one.
A 16GB card (spendy right now) will hold 2.5 hours of HD in HQ, and over 6 hours of SD (think DV) quality vid in widescreen format.
Cards might seem a PITA right now; get used to it. Tape-based camcorders are very much on their way out; No SD-based camcorder is being manufactured after the first of the year, and HDV has about 2 years of life as a manufactured model, perhaps less, depending on sell-through. CF, SDHC, and Memstick are the primary future for skydiving, and HDD/DVD drive for soccer moms/dads.
I wrote a review for Studio Monthly, can be found HERE

HTH

[scottjaco 0]

I just got this panasonic HDC-SD5 camcorder

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Cameras-Camcorders/Camcorders/Hi-Def-Camcorders/model.HDC-SD5BNDL_11002_7000000000000005702

It's on the Circuit City website. It's $850, but you can get it for $765 if you select the in-store pickup as a delivery option. Just make damn sure you put the "10% off" coupon code in before you buy it.

Anyway, It's 100% sold state using SD memory cards. I paid about $37 for a 4GB card.

The nice thing with this camera is there are no hard drives, tape transports or DVD burners to eat up battery power, so the stock battery gives 110 minutes of recording time and even more time (180min) in playback mode.

A 4GB card gives 40 min, 60 min & 90 min, depending on record settings.

It is a 3-chip CCD 1920x1080i system, which is really nice and has great optical image stabilization.

It also comes with a DVD burner that burns blu-ray complient DVD's at the touch of a button.

[shropshire 0]

F.W.I.W I think that "spendy" is a great word - that's all, Bye.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[DSE 3]

Quote

It also comes with a DVD burner that burns blu-ray complient DVD's at the touch of a button.

Sorta. All DVDs are "Blu-ray compliant" excepting HD DVD, which is exclusively Toshiba's format. The DVDs that the included burner burns are no different than the DVDs you burn in your desktop.
My problem with the SDHC cards is that they require specific drivers. Not a problem if you only have one computer, but it becomes problematic if you go from place to place with your camcorder. The Panasonic also has a lower mean bitrate than the Sony, but it's not enough to cause anyone to see a huge difference, unless the image being recorded is a high-motion scene.

The battery time you reference isn't actual, it's what the manufacturer *says* you can get. Wait'll you use it in real life. The required use of the LCD panel (due to the lack of EVF) eats batteries faster than the manufacturer suggests. They set battery life based on half-time use of the panel. Sorta like basing the life of a tire based on perfect road conditions.

You'll like the SD5, we bought one as a test and crash cam.

The two forces you can be sure of;
~solid state memory, HDD memory, or DVD recording on cameras are the future forever.
~HD is here for the next 8-10 years.

IMO, buying anything but an HD camcorder today, is foolish.

[Krip 2]

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MiniDV tapes hold an hour of video, and really shouldn't be reused.

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Can you explain why "They really shouldn't" we just got a HC48 Min DV for home use.

One Jump Wonder

[TrophyHusband 0]

what about editing software and a dvd burner? i have no idea what to get for editing software. it is highly unlikely that i will be doing skydiving videos with this, it is mostly for my wife to make videos of the kids and send to grandparents. i'm also reluctant to get either an hd-dvd or blu-ray player. i don't know much about them, but i'm thinking that before one wins out and the prices drop, dvd's will go away all together and video will be stored in solid state form. am i way off here?

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[pilotdave 0]

Quote

Quote

MiniDV tapes hold an hour of video, and really shouldn't be reused.

Quote

Can you explain why "They really shouldn't" we just got a HC48 Min DV for home use.

I'm sure DSE can give a technical explanation, but basically they get less reliable when reused. They don't degrade picture quality like reused VHS tapes, but they get more prone to dropouts.

I once saw a video guy at a 4-way competition come down with a barely useable video because it was recorded onto a reused tape. The video kept dropping out, which made it impossible to see some of the points and made it too hard to download that jump onto the judge's computer so they had to judge it on the camera's screen. A new tape for the rest of the competition solved the problem.

It'd suck even more to lose baby's first steps or something because of a worn out MiniDV tape.

Dave

[DSE 3]

DVD players/optical disc players will be with us for a LONG time. At least 10 years.
NLE's? I'm a fan of Sony Vegas, myself. Adobe Premiere Elements is a great lil' tool, and even the freebie "Moviemaker" on your PC is pretty good. iMovie on the Mac is quite powerful too.
Any family home video will be good with these tools, IMO.

Dave explained it well, reusing DV tape is a very bad idea, because it's metal particles bonded to plastic. Essentially, it's rust on plastic. Each time it plays through, the rust becomes 'polished' and eventually the particles don't allow for data to adhere to them.
I've reused tape, always on a wing and a prayer. Reusing tape isn't good for your tape player/camcorder, either.

[scottjaco 0]

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Sorta. All DVDs are "Blu-ray compliant" excepting HD DVD, which is exclusively Toshiba's format. The DVDs that the included burner burns are no different than the DVDs you burn in your desktop.

To be more precise, the burner that comes with the SD5 is a standard red-laser burner that uses cheap 4.7GB blank DVD's.

However, you cannot burn standard definition DVD's that play on standard DVD players. You can only play the disc back on a Blu-Ray player or through the camera if you need to watch it on a standard def TV.

It's basically burning HD content to a standard blank DVD. Kinda neat when you think about it. Backwards compatibility is always a plus!

[DSE 3]

Quote

Quote

Sorta. All DVDs are "Blu-ray compliant" excepting HD DVD, which is exclusively Toshiba's format. The DVDs that the included burner burns are no different than the DVDs you burn in your desktop.

To be more precise, the burner that comes with the SD5 is a standard red-laser burner that uses cheap 4.7GB blank DVD's.

However, you cannot burn standard definition DVD's that play on standard DVD players. You can only play the disc back on a Blu-Ray player or through the camera if you need to watch it on a standard def TV.

It's basically burning HD content to a standard blank DVD. Kinda neat when you think about it. Backwards compatibility is always a plus!

When you get that red-laser HD content so it'll play on a BD player, let us know.

[scottjaco 0]

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When you get that red-laser HD content so it'll play on a BD player, let us know.

Already have.

It played on 2 different Sony models at Best Buy.

It recognizes the DVD as "AVC/1080i" on the front display.

It even had a nice menu structure similar to how it looks on my camcorder w/ thumbnails for each clip.

Very neat!

[sdctlc 0]

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/d/Reviews&level_b=Camcorder&level_c=HD.htm

The memory stick units like the CX7 use AVCHD compression. The link I noted talks about some of the stuff on it. I do agree that it is coming and the CX7 is listed as one of the stand outs for this style.

I am looking at the HC5 as I can get a Brand spanking NEW one through B&H with the Raynox HD-5050PRO 0.5x Wide Angle both delivered for $800 ($699.95 for Camera and $89 for the WA plus shipping).

I don't have an issue with the Mini-DV tapes as they are inexpensive. I don't like to early adopt too fast i guess. It seems that some changes are coming in the next couple of years and the $800 cost is not that bad for a couple of years of good use, but I have not placed the order yet It is in the shopping cart though....

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[beowulf 1]

I just bought the HC5 for $729 total including shipping at Amazon. I just received yesterday. Haven't fully tested it out yet.

[DSE 3]

I've burned standard DVDs using a variety of tools for BD playback with AVCHD on the disc. What I don't understand you to be doing is burning straight from the camcorder to red ray, with no authoring.
You're doing this and playing straight out on a BD player unit?
Or is there an Xfer involved?

[scottjaco 0]

Quote

You're doing this and playing straight out on a BD player unit?

Basically when my 4GB memory card is full, I plug in the portable burner via USB cable. There is a 1 touch button that takes all the clips you've shot and burns it to DVD in it's native compressed AVC 1080i format.

Blu-Ray players are the only device on the market that are capable of playing back these "AVC" files in their compressed state. That's why the DVD's don't work on standard or even HD-DVD players, because they don't read AVC compressed content.

It works as advertised. The chapter menus it creates are a very nice touch also.

Note: Since I don't have a blu-ray player or HDTV for that matter, I play my newly authored AVC DVD's back through the camera which is hooked up to my TV. The camera can then output the signal in native 1080i or 480i which is selectable in the user menu.

[DSE 3]

I understand how it works, I've burned red layer for BD, but have had to do so via an authoring tool such as burning an image from DVD Studio Pro or Sony Vegas, then using the image via any number of tools.
what I didn't understand, was that I thought you were burning HD DVD compiled discs, to play in a BD player. BTW, HD DVD can also play DVD 5 discs. Before BD could, actually. I'm a BD-camper, however, so am happy to be working with the format.
What I didn't know (and we do own an SD5), is that I can one-touch it to a disc. Then again, we edit everything shot, so it doesn't do much for me.

I'm not clear on why you're saying "AVC in it's compressed state." AVC is only a compressed format, there is no "uncompressed AVCHD."

[Krip 2]

Mr Spot

Thanks for the info About reusing the DV tape issue. Ruining the camcorder

Think we'll hit costo and buy a ten pack of mini DV's.

You da man

One Jump Wonder