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CSpenceFLY

Where should we draw the line?

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Spence:

What does it matter where "we" draw the line. It's where "Spence" draws the line that should be important to you.

If anyone were to persecute you for your beliefs, I'm sure that you would ensure there is enough evidence to convict. Don't let others draw your lines.



I think you are missing his point. "We" being skydivers who continue to turn a cheek to skydivers when they do shit the is just wrong and we do nothing to stop it. It looks like Chris has draw his "line", now it's time for the rest of us to do the same.

I've said for a long time that too many skydivers think that it is their god given right to take a toke then go on an AFF jump, tandem or a training jump with a low jump student! :o

That is bad for business and that is bad for the sport.

Do what you want on your own time, but don't let it interfere with good judgment. And why can't they be more discreet??? Don't let the children, students and their family's see that shit. WTF is wrong with people?!
LifeshouldNOTbeajourneytothegravewithawellpreservedbody,buttskidinsideways,cigarinone hand,martiniintheother,bodythoroughlyused upandscreaming:"WOO HOO!! What a ride!!!"

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I completely agree with everything you said. Spot on. What I don't get is why DZO's are tolerant of drug use on their premises. I would think that would open them up to massive legal liability if anyone gets hurt as a result of someone using drugs. As well as if the cops end up on a DZ at night and find drugs, that could end up earning a DZ a bad reputation among the community. Not as bad as a skyride place (zing!) but close.



No to mention the bullshit forfeiture laws... I don't think *any* DZO would willingly risk losing his plane over a couple people sneaking out to smoke dope in it.



Not even in the plane, anywhere on the premises.
"If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way."
- Homer Simpson

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You??? I've always known you to be a quiet wallflower



What the fuck are you smokin .... Willis;)

Whatever it is.. its got some major hallucinogenic side effects:ph34r:


Come oooon a d m i t i t. You're just a sweetheart
Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

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Do what you want on your own time, but don't let it interfere with good judgment. And why can't they be more discreet??? Don't let the children, students and their family's see that shit. WTF is wrong with people?!



Where the fuck you been jumping? I have yet to see at any dz after about 1980 a safety meeting going on in broad day light and in front of kids, students, and family of visitors. And even back in "the day" it was discreet and never done in front of kids and visitors.

In the 70's I have been on a number of loads as a minor where joints were being smoked and those little sneak a snort bottles were making the rounds on the ride up, yes people were doing coke and pot and other shit and jumping, one of the most common things was drinking and jumping.

It wasn't all that long ago a well known LO who cooks great food could be found at every major event LOing and and if you didn't see him with a beer in hand by 10:30 AM he was "sick". And many of you would have been on his dives, knowing full well he was drinking all day and pulling low every jump, like 800 ft. low.

And as for those you who wonder why some DZO's would let safety meetings after hours, in many cases you'll find the owner attending the meeting, been handed a number more then once by more then one dzo.

I'm also willing to bet many of you bitchen about substance use can be found on a sunday morning stinking of booze and still half drunk or very hung over as you walk to the AC with your TDM or AFF students, seen time and time again.

Gone are the days of leaving your shit lay around the DZ and having it still be there the next day or fatties being burned on the plane and people drinking and snorting piles of blow and doing shrooms all day and jumping, who the fuck to do you think the early freak brothers were and why they had the biggest dope smoking, coke snorting, booze'n & jumping bash around AKA the freak brother convention, you dumbasses think this shit is bad today don't have a clue! This sport is way cleaned up these days.

With that all said, potatohead had no right to walk up and beat the shit out of someone who may or may not been doing his girl, who the fuck owns and another person anyway, if your S.O. is running around and fucking other people on the dz then you must be bad in the sack or have poor choice in who you date/marry if they are that big of a slut, then deal with and go see your doctor for an STD test and move on.
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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Gone are the days of leaving your shit lay around the DZ and having it still be there the next day or fatties being burned on the plane and people drinking and snorting piles of blow and doing shrooms all day and jumping, who the fuck to do you think the early freak brothers were and why they had the biggest dope smoking, coke snorting, booze'n & jumping bash around AKA the freak brother convention, you dumbasses think this shit is bad today don't have a clue!



***

I wish I could agree with you but I really don't remember a lot of what happened in those days...;):ph34r::$










The Pessimist says: "It can't possibly get any worse!"
The Optimist says: "Sure it can!"

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"I'm also willing to bet many of you bitchen about substance use can be found on a sunday morning stinking of booze and still half drunk or very hung over as you walk to the AC with your TDM or AFF students, seen time and time again."



I don't drink ;)

I personally dont care what people put in their bodies, I just said I didn't understand why a DZO would allow it to go on or turn a blind eye, because it seems like they would be opening themselves up to massive liability. From the posts I've on here it seems like that is whats happening.
"If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way."
- Homer Simpson

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In the 70's I have been on a number of loads as a minor where joints were being smoked and those little sneak a snort bottles were making the rounds on the ride up


Power Hitters, dude. Power Hitters.
:D:D

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It wasn't all that long ago a well known LO...


Guilty

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you'll find the owner attending the meeting, been handed a number more then once by more then one dzo.


I can guarantee that you are NOT talking about Mr. West.

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Gone are the days of leaving your shit lay around the DZ and having it still be there the next day


Unfortunately, I agree. As was said before...it's a reflection of today's general society.

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This sport is way cleaned up these days.


Agreed! Compared to the mid to late 70's...waaaaaay less going on in certain respects.

Bottom line...I think Spence is correct. What was intolerable in the not-to-distant past has become more and more tolerable...and that's not good. It's bringing down the whole "family" idea...we, as a community, are becoming more and more disfunctional as time goes on. When will it stop? Only when WE speak up and not allow it....or when the cops keep showing up at the hangar door on a regular basis. Our choice.

In the meantime, it's a mistake to assume that leaving your stuff out in plain view is OK and that nobody will bother it. It's a mistake to let the criminal and the violent have free leeway in our disfunctional family. It's a shame that one has to lock up stuff...even at one major southern greenie's home DZ.

I strongly disagree with J's assumption that a good ass-whuppin' is valid if deserved. There's better ways to handle things. Who makes the decision on "deserved"? How much whuppin' is deserved and where do you draw the line before you get into "over-done"? So you dish out a "deserved" ass-whuppin' and get stabbed or shot or better yet bite off more than you can chew and wind up being the whuppee for your troubles...now what? Uh-uh...doesn't work that way, guys. You're only propogating one of the things we are trying to rid ourselves of...violent acts.

It's awfully damned ambiguous of you (my first choice of words was "arrogant" but it didn't fit with the context of the paragraph) to say no violence on the one hand and then say any ass-whuppin' is OK on the other. Make up your mind.

Make love, not war.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Oh boy, the good old double standard of society. Your right POPS, on one hand a good old ass whooping is needed, and on the other, but tater was out of line.

And then we have the DZO who says publicly they don't like dope smokers or drunks, yet has the one of the biggest indoor dope growers in the city of Dayton on staff and also willingly and knowingly endangers the life of their clients by using non rated instructors, afro engineering the AC repairs or just signing it off, using unapproved fuel, flying without working radios or transponders, flying with a bent crank on a R-985, homemade prop repairs, sells tandem rigs with main and reserves swapped, sells rotten R-985's and is reported to have signed off on hanging it (hinkley 92) or selling a plane to some guy with that homemade prop repair on it and a whole host of other illegal actions.

I didn't hear too many skydivers pissed off when dzo's send their goon squad out to beat the shit out of the jumpers who turned them in to the FAA or when they called up and tried to get people fired from their jobs, or calling a big KKK meeting with all the area DZO's and asked them to black list the snitches, because they didn't like skydivers calling the FAA to report their illegal actions, in fact most supported the crooks actions and still do with their wallets.

Then we have the jumpers who slam back 5 or 6 beers in less then an hour at the end of the day and then hop in their cars with a handful of beers or harder drinks (open containers, DWI/DUI) and then tear ass out of the dz parking lot hooping it up and driving like high schoolers and tossing out their empties (littering) on their way into town to eat and slam back more beers/drinks. (not every dz has a cool bus driven by a cool non drinking white haired old fart)

And a lot of those who do this shit just about every weekend at many DZ's across the US are some of the same people who don't like/bitch about the staff/fun jumper who camps/lives on site and humped meat all day and only wants to return to their trailer and have a meal and shower and a couple cold ones and burn and fatty or two with good friends and relax after a long day, before retiring at a early hour so they can be shit, showered, shaved and ready to go first thing in the morning to haul more meat.

Unlike the DWI/DUI crowd that is still in town shutting down the watering hole and rolls back in a 2 and 3 am where they party till the sun comes up on E and special K and all the other shit one takes to/at a rave, only to pass out for a few hours in the main hanger area for the customers to see first thing in the morning when they walk in and to see the bums get paged to manifest and then find out this person who stinks like stale cigarettes and booze because they hadn't brushed their teeth or showered and crawled out of bed with two hours sleep to take them on a tandem.

I know if I was going to bring my mom out to do a tandem jump I sure as hell would choose to let many of the pot smoking TM's I know take her long before I would let her go with many of the legal alcohol swilling drunks I see working at every dz I have ever been to.

No we as group can't sit back and have people getting beat almost to death on the DZ, it's uncalled for any reason! The same as we can't turn a blind eye to rape on the dz or dzo's cut corners that endanger others. But at the same time there are a awful lot of HYPOCRITES with in our ranks who need to take a step back and look at their own illegal activities before they start calling the cops or throwing stones or punches at other skydivers!

IMHO!
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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to be perfectly honest this website is what illustrated that I like and dislike "skydivers" in the same proportions I like and dislike the rest of the population..

the more popular any activity becomes the more it represents society as a whole...
____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

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