ltdiver 3 #1 January 10, 2008 Doing a little research here and hoping to further the education. Help! So, there's rust coming into my water pipes when first turning them on in the morning. It flushes clean within a few seconds. Hot water still is working. Tried to flush my (10 year old) hot water heater and no water came out. Sediment has built up too high and it's now toast. I need to replace it. Now, I'm thinking perhaps a Tankless Water Heater. Doing a bit of research and find that they're pretty expensive ($1-2,000 just for the whole house unit). Plus taking the gas line from 1/2 in to 3/4 inch and installing a stainless steel ventilation pipe out the top (at $35/foot). In addition it's recommended to put a water softener in the line as well, as the deposits build up on a tankless just as much as a conventional water tank. Then there's the cost of the expert to install it. Wanting to survey what you guys have found (and used). Please add explanations to your replies as this is something that's needing to be done in the next month or so and the more education the better. Thanks! ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #2 January 10, 2008 I watched a demonstration at Home Depot a few months ago and still have the DVD and brochures, but you're right, they're expensive to install, at least the high end ones that require gas hook-ups like you need, but I don't have so it won't cost as much for me. I'm still not sold on it yet. I think there are other less complicated tankless heaters on the market, but admittedly haven't done the research."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #3 January 10, 2008 I've designed them into hundreds of condos and apartments. I wouldn't install it as a renovation, just new work - unless you're gutting the house and starting over. They're best application is where the footprint is an issue, venting is easy, on-demand hot water is requested, and the house is large enough that there will be a return or break even point on how much more efficient they are. If you want to do something efficient then install a solar collector. You're in a great area for this."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psw097 0 #4 January 10, 2008 I put one in my house last year. Its excellent - extremely efficient, quiet, doesn't take up much space and you can take as long a shower as you want. Mine is a Rinnai R53i propane model. It will heat up to 5.3 GPM - enough for 2 showers at the same time. It cost right around $1550 installed. I already had propane but all the gas lines needed to be ran to it. The unit itself was around $900 + $300 for the installation kits/parts and the rest labor. It took a 1/2 day to put in - I took care of removing the old one myself. There is a tax credit this year that is something like $300 - So, 1250 in the end. It was going to be about $700-$1000 to replace what I had. The yearly savings roughly worked out to $300 - so, a 2 year ROI plus the tankless water heater has a significantly long lifespan. Here's the link: http://www.foreverhotwater.com/ A couple notes: Instead of a water softener you can simply draining then flushing it with vinegar every couple years. Mine has a drain on both the input and output for that. Also, it is not hot at all - I can put my hand directly on the exhaust vent. Heat going out is lost efficiency. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #5 January 10, 2008 My wife and I are considering the same thing - but got a $3,200.00 estimate. It's the 3/4 inch line that may be a problem and actually be the most work. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #6 January 10, 2008 I'm in the midst of renovating my house and I'm considering going all-gas with the tankless heater.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chinagirl 0 #7 January 10, 2008 I got one and love it. Saved on the water bill considering I have a 3 story house. You should definitely go with it if you can. I got me a Bosch...~Built for Abuse www.skydivethefarm.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #8 January 10, 2008 The house (manufactured home, whatever the hell you wanna call it) had an electric before it was vandalized. It's under renovation now - I'll check into the pros/cons (and legalities) of the tankless heaters when they finish rebuilding it, since I have to get new appliances anyway.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #9 January 10, 2008 Quote The house (manufactured home, whatever the hell you wanna call it) had an electric before it was vandalized. It's under renovation now - I'll check into the pros/cons (and legalities) of the tankless heaters when they finish rebuilding it, since I have to get new appliances anyway. What did the fucktards do? "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #10 January 10, 2008 Quote Quote The house (manufactured home, whatever the hell you wanna call it) had an electric before it was vandalized. It's under renovation now - I'll check into the pros/cons (and legalities) of the tankless heaters when they finish rebuilding it, since I have to get new appliances anyway. What did the fucktards do? Hell, you name it... stole all the appliances/furniture, trashed the place and then left doors and all open and the local critters got in. I'm still undecided on if I want to keep it or sell it after it's renovated (if I can get enough to clear the mortgage).Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #11 January 10, 2008 Quote Quote Quote The house (manufactured home, whatever the hell you wanna call it) had an electric before it was vandalized. It's under renovation now - I'll check into the pros/cons (and legalities) of the tankless heaters when they finish rebuilding it, since I have to get new appliances anyway. What did the fucktards do? Hell, you name it... stole all the appliances/furniture, trashed the place and then left doors and all open and the local critters got in. I'm still undecided on if I want to keep it or sell it after it's renovated (if I can get enough to clear the mortgage). That sucks. So nobody was living in it at the time? Where is this house? TX?"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #12 January 10, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote The house (manufactured home, whatever the hell you wanna call it) had an electric before it was vandalized. It's under renovation now - I'll check into the pros/cons (and legalities) of the tankless heaters when they finish rebuilding it, since I have to get new appliances anyway. What did the fucktards do? Hell, you name it... stole all the appliances/furniture, trashed the place and then left doors and all open and the local critters got in. I'm still undecided on if I want to keep it or sell it after it's renovated (if I can get enough to clear the mortgage). That sucks. So nobody was living in it at the time? Where is this house? TX? Yup, in Texas, outside of San Antonio. Nobody living in it at the time. Oh well...gives me a chance to change some stuff I didn't like about the place, anyway. Just need to find some land to site it on.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #13 January 10, 2008 Paul, how hard was it to install the venting?"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,391 #14 January 10, 2008 >Now, I'm thinking perhaps a Tankless Water Heater. I installed an electric one when we gutted our bathrooms. A medium sized one (an eemax EX95) was enough to run a shower, sink etc one at a time. No gas lines or venting, and the wiring was a piece of cake. The problem with them is that they suck up power. I wouldn't use one for primary water heat, but they'd be a great backup for even a cheapo solar heater. They're also great if you need a solution NOW, because they install quickly. For cost effectiveness, though, a good well-insulated tank based heater is hard to beat. They're cheap and installation is easy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psw097 0 #15 January 10, 2008 The venting was a single 5" PVC tube - exhaust on the inside, air intake around the outside. A 5" hole saw made short work of my basement header board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #16 January 10, 2008 I like the tankless. They can really save on the gas bills. If I were building a new house, that is the way I would go. But I also agree with Bill. A well insulated, high efficiency tank heater that is installed in a temperature controlled location, can be pretty cost effective as well. Way too often, the heater is installed in the unheated garage. That forces the heater to work harder to begin with. A lot of work for any heater is due to purging the previously heated water out of the pipes, after that water cooled. Per code, only the first 5' of the pipe entering and leaving the heater has to be insulated. If all the hot water lines inside the walls were insulated, the water in the pipes would stay hot, and not need to be purged. That adds up quickly. Especially if the bathrooms are a long way from the heater. That not only saves on the power bills, but saves on water, a resource that is so precious here in California.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #17 January 10, 2008 I had one and it was the biggest POS, if you get any air in your line even for 100th of a second the heat coils will blow and the one we had it was 30 bucks a coil and there were 3, the city would open the lines once a year and we would come home not knowing the lines had been open and pop goes the coil, and there not something you go replace @ Lowes, no you go to call the factory for a replacement, long story short, we have a new tank and got rid of the 700.00 dollar POS tankless.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Croc 0 #18 January 10, 2008 I'm a plumber and our company is a Rinnai dealer. After more than a year we have sold one unit. When the Rinnai seminar was over we all looked at each other and said, in unison, "I'm NEVER selling one of those things!" In a new house with a softener, maybe you'll get your money out of it. As a retrofit--you won't. The biggest problem is the flue. The tankless unit has to be located where the flue will work, and that means usually in a garage, which means you have to get all your piping out there, greatly adding to the cost if your tank type heater was in a basement or otherwise inside the house. Also there is a flow restrictor on the unit. If you have, for example the dishwasher and a shower going at the same time you'll notice a drop in flow. Think lifestyle change. Installed, these things are four to five times more than a replacement tank type. You won't get it back."Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so." Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #19 January 10, 2008 hmmm... interesting... never heard of something like that happening. Think I'll just stick to the standard tank. Sorry you got hosed. "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JSBIRD 1 #20 January 10, 2008 I have a PrecisionTemp RV500 model in my converted bus, and it's awesome. Burns ZERO fuel until you need it, and is very miserly when in use. Easily worth the $1000 I paid. BASE359"Now I've settled down, in a quiet little town, and forgot about everything" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jojo69 0 #21 January 11, 2008 I have a just put a tankless (Rinnai) in my house during the remodle. I love it. I also have a smaller version in my RV. I enjoy them both and have seen a real savings on my gas bill and my propaine use in the RV. I paid $1500. installed for the one in my house and $400 for the one in my RV. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flr169 0 #22 January 11, 2008 well we gutted our whole house fall of 06...i mean gutted everything... we put everything back in gas including the water heater (tankless)... it is mounted right onto the outside wall...next to nothing for exhaust pipe....up a short distance and out the wall.... yes it needed 3/4 water line in and out.... try installing the heater close to water supply , that will make it a bit easier.... as for gas line....we all ready had big steel line running thru house to furnace...the guy just tee'd off of it and then ran a yellow flexable (3/4) line to the rinni... after watching the guy install it...I wouldn't be scared to do it myself... like some else said...30 - 40 and even 50 minute showers rock....no cold water ever... about 1400 installed... MikeLife's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting - "fcuk me what a ride!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #23 January 11, 2008 Quote Here's the link: http://www.foreverhotwater.com/ A couple notes: Instead of a water softener you can simply draining then flushing it with vinegar every couple years. Mine has a drain on both the input and output for that. Also, it is not hot at all - I can put my hand directly on the exhaust vent. Heat going out is lost efficiency. Thanks for the web site and info about the softener. I sent a request e-mail to a couple Rinnai dealers and will talk with them. If your installation amount is correct this is indeed tempting. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #24 January 11, 2008 QuoteMy wife and I are considering the same thing - but got a $3,200.00 estimate. It's the 3/4 inch line that may be a problem and actually be the most work. Wonder if having the main gas valve right next to the current hot water heater (which mine is) is a plus, as far as expense of upgrading the pipe size? ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #25 January 11, 2008 Means they have to lay less pipe..... Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
