livendive 8 #51 December 4, 2007 QuoteIf every instructor refused to do Skyride affiliated work, dropzones would quit taking their certificates in a heartbeat and this problem would go away If only it was that simple. Sorry guys, the cat's out of the bag. It is that simple. That doesn't mean it'll happen, as skydivers are a fickle bunch, but it is that simple. QuoteI have a question: If there was an operation out there that did everything Skyride does with the exception of the dishonesty would you accept their certificates? ALL of the dishonesty? I still probably wouldn't. The last time I heard a quote from them, it wasn't worth my time. In order to make it worth my time and still make their current profit margins, they'd have to screw my customers, which isn't something I'd want to be party to. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #52 December 4, 2007 QuoteQuoteIf every instructor refused to do Skyride affiliated work, dropzones would quit taking their certificates in a heartbeat and this problem would go away If only it was that simple. Sorry guys, the cat's out of the bag. It is that simple. That doesn't mean it'll happen, as skydivers are a fickle bunch, but it is that simple. QuoteI have a question: If there was an operation out there that did everything Skyride does with the exception of the dishonesty would you accept their certificates? ALL of the dishonesty? I still probably wouldn't. The last time I heard a quote from them, it wasn't worth my time. In order to make it worth my time and still make their current profit margins, they'd have to screw my customers, which isn't something I'd want to be party to. Blues, Dave OK. SO is it fair to say that your real problem is with them cutting into your profits?Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johndh1 0 #53 December 4, 2007 QuoteOK. SO is it fair to say that your real problem is with them cutting into your profits? No, it's not fair, it's not correct, and it's not that simple. It seems you are trying to turn the issue - he referenced their inability to maintain profit margin by implementing your idea of ethical standards (like that would happen).Roll Tide Roll Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #54 December 4, 2007 Not trying to turn the issue. Trying to find out if there's a viable market out there for someone to do the same type of thing Skyride does without all the dishonesty. There just might be some people who have the means to compete with Skyride. I don't think DZO's can put them out of business however, competition from an alternative site might put a whole in the money bucket for them. What they're doing isn't rocket science. If you know anything about internet marketing you don't even need 900 websites. You need 1 good one and the ability to pay enough to have it come up first in a search.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #55 December 4, 2007 Quote OK. SO is it fair to say that your real problem is with them cutting into your profits? No, that's not what I said. You proposed a hypothetical situation that involved them no longer being dishonest. The dishonesty is where my real problem lies. Outside of that, they would simply be a form of advertising. I don't currently pay for television advertising because I don't think it's profitable. That doesn't mean I have a problem with television advertising, it's just not worth it to me. I would view an honest Skyride similarly...good for some people but not high on my list of things to spend money on. If they were honest and I got to the point that I wanted to outsource some advertising and it looked like it would be worth the expense, then sure, I'd consider them. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johndh1 0 #56 December 4, 2007 Quote...What they're doing isn't rocket science. And neither is walking into a bank and passing the teller a note that states "give me all the money, I have a gun..."Roll Tide Roll Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #57 December 4, 2007 QuoteNot trying to turn the issue. Trying to find out if there's a viable market out there for someone to do the same type of thing Skyride does without all the dishonesty. That thought has crossed my mind on many occasions, I just don't have enough time left in my days to add it to my "To do" list. I think there is such a market, especially if the entrepeneur is willing to keep realistic profit goals and make their money with volume rather than swinging for the fences with every single tandem. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #58 December 4, 2007 IMO another service that markets tandems as just an "extreme ride" is not what this sport needs. Even an "honest" "ride" booking service does little for the sport other than make more $$$ for DZO's. A service that centrally marketed tandems as an introduction to the sport and treated them as students I could see.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #59 December 4, 2007 QuoteQuoteNot trying to turn the issue. Trying to find out if there's a viable market out there for someone to do the same type of thing Skyride does without all the dishonesty. That thought has crossed my mind on many occasions, I just don't have enough time left in my days to add it to my "To do" list. I think there is such a market, especially if the entrepeneur is willing to keep realistic profit goals and make their money with volume rather than swinging for the fences with every single tandem. Blues, Dave Maybe you could PM me with those numbers?Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #60 December 4, 2007 Quote IMO another service that markets tandems as just an "extreme ride" is not what this sport needs. Even an "honest" "ride" booking service does little for the sport other than make more $$$ for DZO's. A service that centrally marketed tandems as an introduction to the sport and treated them as students I could see. It's a nice thought...so is ending hunger and world peace. Unfortunately we don't get to decide what the customer is looking for. It's almost certain it would need to be marketed as a thrill ride and let the DZ handle trying to take them further. ANd I'm uncertain why making more $$$ for the DZO is a bad thing. WHy else would a DZO deal with a booking service? Seems to me that's the whole point. Would all the DZO's who got into this business to break even please raise their hands.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #61 December 4, 2007 I don't currently pay for television advertising because I don't think it's profitable. That doesn't mean I have a problem with television advertising, it's just not worth it to me. I would view an honest Skyride similarly...good for some people but not high on my list of things to spend money on. I'm confused. Does SR require DZO's to pay up front? I would think it would be more of a DZO gets paid when the tandem/video/whatever is completed.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #62 December 4, 2007 Quote It's almost certain it would need to be marketed as a thrill ride and let the DZ handle trying to take them further. The changes would need to be made but both the DZ's and the booking service. Advertising it as an intro to skydiving would mean more time would have to be taken with the students. Too many times the first interaction the student has with their vidiot and instructor is when they are walking to the plane after switching out their rigs because they are on back to back loads. Then right after they land they are off to the next person. The "student" does not get much chance to ask questions or even really make a connection with their instructor.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyshrek 0 #63 December 4, 2007 here is a thought, every dz accept skyride certificates. When the person shows up, advise them that if they call their credit card company and dispute the charges, their tandem will be cheaper. there is nothing unethical about that. if the customer wishes to pay skyride their fee then great, if they want a cheaper skydive then call the 1800 number. Free advertising for every dropzone courtesy of skyridehttp://www.skydivethefarm.com do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #64 December 4, 2007 QuoteIMO another service that markets tandems as just an "extreme ride" is not what this sport needs. Even an "honest" "ride" booking service does little for the sport other than make more $$$ for DZO's. A service that centrally marketed tandems as an introduction to the sport and treated them as students I could see. So what do you think of Soaring Advenures of America's ad on the inside cover of the November issue of Parachutist?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #65 December 4, 2007 Quote there is nothing unethical about that. I'm no Skryride fan, but what kind of logic is this? You want DZO's to enter into an agreement with SR, and then turn the customers that are sent their way by SR around to get out of the agreement they have with SR? Yeah, that's ethical.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #66 December 4, 2007 Quotehere is a thought, every dz accept skyride certificates. When the person shows up, advise them that if they call their credit card company and dispute the charges, their tandem will be cheaper. there is nothing unethical about that. if the customer wishes to pay skyride their fee then great, if they want a cheaper skydive then call the 1800 number. Free advertising for every dropzone courtesy of skyride That would assume they didn't get what they "thought" they were buying. CC companies aren't going to allow disputes simply because you found it somewhere cheaper.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyshrek 0 #67 December 4, 2007 Quote Quote there is nothing unethical about that. I'm no Skryride fan, but what kind of logic is this? You want DZO's to enter into an agreement with SR, and then turn the customers that are sent their way by SR around to get out of the agreement they have with SR? Yeah, that's ethical. No, when the customer shows up pissed that they are getting ripped off. What is wrong with advising them of the right procedures. We get quite a few each month where i jump with these shitty rain checks. If skyride did everything ethical and right then there would be no problem.http://www.skydivethefarm.com do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyshrek 0 #68 December 4, 2007 QuoteQuotehere is a thought, every dz accept skyride certificates. When the person shows up, advise them that if they call their credit card company and dispute the charges, their tandem will be cheaper. there is nothing unethical about that. if the customer wishes to pay skyride their fee then great, if they want a cheaper skydive then call the 1800 number. Free advertising for every dropzone courtesy of skyride That would assume they didn't get what they "thought" they were buying. CC companies aren't going to allow disputes simply because you found it somewhere cheaper. Yes true. But when we get skyride customers show up at our dz. Not being able to jump 3 miles away because they were told it was because of weather condiions. Not that they over booked...If you book a hotel, and show up at the hotel and they over booked and fucked you out of a room. Shouldn't you be entitled to get a refund. Or should hotels just give you a little card with rain check on.http://www.skydivethefarm.com do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #69 December 4, 2007 Quote Quote Quote there is nothing unethical about that. I'm no Skryride fan, but what kind of logic is this? You want DZO's to enter into an agreement with SR, and then turn the customers that are sent their way by SR around to get out of the agreement they have with SR? Yeah, that's ethical. No, when the customer shows up pissed that they are getting ripped off. What is wrong with advising them of the right procedures. We get quite a few each month where i jump with these shitty rain checks. If skyride did everything ethical and right then there would be no problem. Well dammit...now they know the planPrety certain SR has some decent attorneys who are paid to think of this stuff.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #70 December 4, 2007 Anyone know who these folks are? http://www.xperiencedays.com/prodlist.asp?idcategory=3&curPage=2&strlocation=&sortField=description Zero Gravity Xperience - Full Private Flight Your very own Weightless Flight Various Locations $110,000.00 This what I want for ChristmasPlease don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #71 December 4, 2007 Quote Quote It's almost certain it would need to be marketed as a thrill ride and let the DZ handle trying to take them further. The changes would need to be made but both the DZ's and the booking service. Advertising it as an intro to skydiving would mean more time would have to be taken with the students. Too many times the first interaction the student has with their vidiot and instructor is when they are walking to the plane after switching out their rigs because they are on back to back loads. Then right after they land they are off to the next person. The "student" does not get much chance to ask questions or even really make a connection with their instructor. If there were more instructors, each could spend more time with their students. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #72 December 4, 2007 QuoteI don't currently pay for television advertising because I don't think it's profitable. That doesn't mean I have a problem with television advertising, it's just not worth it to me. I would view an honest Skyride similarly...good for some people but not high on my list of things to spend money on. I'm confused. Does SR require DZO's to pay up front? I would think it would be more of a DZO gets paid when the tandem/video/whatever is completed. If one is currently collecting a fair price and someone offers to instead pay them a far less than fair price, wouldn't the difference between the two prices constitute an expense? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #73 December 4, 2007 Quote Quote Okay, I'll renew my membership after all. But you damn well better run, now that I'm about to invest $49 dollars (or whatever renewal costs these days) in your campaign. Can I get a vote too? All you want from me is a vote? Sheesh! More seriously, only if you're running for ND. If you want to be an RD, you'll have to move to New Jersey. Even more seriously, I have many years experience with your opinions and actions, and I would have no hesitation giving you my vote. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peanut4040 0 #74 December 4, 2007 with a d --license number something in he sport of that many years,,, IF you have not gotten what USPA has done for us,, Pffftttt Did yoiu really say 40 years with that d license number?Its a good day to LIVE, why puck up a good thing. There is no reply in aad section for. " hell no i would not put an AAD on my back" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peanut4040 0 #75 December 4, 2007 More accurate example - upstanding citizen, always paid his taxes, always helped the little old lady accross the street, always took care of his lawn, decided it was a good idea to work for Wal-Mart - and you HATE Wal-Mart - does he still rock? Or is he now a criminal? chuckles,,,jeeseee bill,,, you gave me a 15 day suspension.Its a good day to LIVE, why puck up a good thing. There is no reply in aad section for. " hell no i would not put an AAD on my back" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
