Micron Reserve Container Lock

[Kramer 0]

I don't claim to be a gear guru by any means but a buddy of mine is working towards getting his riggers ticket and he sent me this. He didn't want to create a controversy and didn't want to put it on dz.com but I told him it should be discussed and made public, I also want to know if something has been or is being done about it. I had him give me all the details and told him I would post it for him so he can remain anonymous as a lot of dz.commers know him. Here are his thoughts:

Reserver Micron Container Lock That's the video that will be referenced in this post.

I'm not trying to create any bad vibes or badmouth any product but I have recently been showed something that really caused me quite a bit of concern.

After I understood how it happened on the Mirage I was concerned if it could happen on my own rig (Vector Micron with skyhook), as the setup is very similar. I plowed through tons of posts on here and found nothing about it on other rigs so I felt relatively safe that it was just a Mirage issue. I mean certainly the other manufacturers woud know if it could happen to their rig or not and let us know right?

I explained to the rigger I was working with that it wasn't a factor on other rigs and it was just to the Mirage as I couldn't find any AD's or bulletins on it. He said he remembered an article in Parachutist where a guy made a make-shift cutter that could be manually activated and re-used for testing purposes and the writer of the article did a similar test on his rig. It was about 5 degrees below here and we had nothing better to do so I was game to see if we could create the lock-up situation that the Mirages were prone to.

I was surprised to find out that it was rather easy to lock the reserve container up. We did have the loop a little long as you can see in the video that it isn't the best looking reserve pack-job ever done, but certainly a pack job that you may see in the field for sure. We did not lubricate the closing loop as mentioned in the AD for the Mirage but my rigger admitted that he hardly never does it on most rigs anyway.

We actually did it a few times and I was amazed at how securely locked up the reserve container was. As you can see in the vid, we had to really beat on it to finally give way. This was the case in a few of the times that we locked it up, some other times it gave way after one hit, sometimes it delayed for a second and then went on its own. But the few times it did lock up was enough to scare the S$%T out of me.

Has anyone else done anything like this on other rigs or am I missing some information somewhere? I have looked all over the RWS site found and nothing about it there or anywhere else, only on Mirage's site here. http://www.miragesys.com/Newsletters/MNL061605.htm . I think RWS makes an awesome rig, I wouldn't jump one if not, but shouldnt something be done about this? Please pm my friend if you have any information about this that I am missing. This is a quote from Airtec made about the situation with Mirage. Why haven't any of the other companies done the same thing to make their rig safer too? I plan on contacting Relative Workship and asking them if there is an approved modification I can do on my Micron but if anyone else has any info I would appreciate it.

The quote from Airtec: "we see a cutter position above the pilotchute as being a very easy and inexpensive way to significantly increase safety. Many factors which neither the container manufacturer nor the AAD manufacturer have any influence over, can be eliminated. We appreciate the action Mirage is taking with this PSB because it eliminates possible side effects from a lot of field rigging errors which no manufacturer can prevent. We encourage other manufacturers of containers with internal pilotchutes to evaluate this cutter location and take similar action as is appropriate."

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[Mostly_Harmless 0]

Was there a reserve in the tray when that experiment took place?

_________________________________________
www.myspace.com/termvelocity

[GravityGirl 0]

IMHO, any rig can have any number of problems due to poor rigging.

I appreciate the ongoing efforts of the manufacturers to build better and safer rigs. But I don't necessarily think they should engineer to accomodate poor rigging.

Purchasing a good container is step one in your safety chain. Proper maintenance by the consumer is vital. Having your reserve packed and maintained by a compentant rigger is another.

The problem you have highlighted can exist with virtually any enclosed pop top. A properly trained rigger is aware of that. Sounds like your friend is aware of it in his/her early stages of rigging.

No rig is fool proof.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[piisfish 135]

how can you explain the delay in opening ?

scary.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[rhys 0]

Quote

I appreciate the ongoing efforts of the manufacturers to build better and safer rigs. But I don't necessarily think they should engineer to accomodate poor rigging.

Purchasing a good container is step one in your safety chain. Proper maintenance by the consumer is vital. Having your reserve packed and maintained by a compentant rigger is another.

Riggers have to come from somewhere! there are plenty of people that have only packed a few reserves and all of those thaht have packed 100's or 1000's had only packed a few at some point in time too.

therefore it is important that manufacturers LISTEN to the consumer. and ANY problems that arise should have realistic answers or solutions.

I am shocked at the video. I jump a vector 3! i have only had 1 chop and that was on a 'dodgy' old racer, I couldn't see this problem ever happening on the racer though. not that i want another one either.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[johnny1488 1]

I'm glad someone finally did it. Sonic and I were talking about this when the article in Skydiving came out months ago but never got around to trying it.

This is why I wasn't a fan of the Mirage Mod. I know why they did it but it was strictly to protect themselves from poor rigging.

I think ANY container that has the cutter below the reserve P/C has the capacity to lock.

Do I think the Vector needs a mod? No way. But I didn't think the Mirage needed one either.

Excellent work on the project. But if RWS comes out with a Mod I will give you one hell of a purple nurple.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[johnny1488 1]

when the closing loop is too long, the grommets of the flaps are no longer on top of one another. They are spread out. Picture the loop S-ing around one grommet to another. When the loop is cut and tension is released, the loop binds the grommets and keeps the P/C from opening the flaps.

This occurs from VERY sloppy rigging and having the loop WAY to long. If you follow the manufacturers recommendations for loop length, even with poor rigging, I think this can be avoided.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[piisfish 135]

thanks for the answer, I understand it better now.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[GravityGirl 0]

>>Riggers have to come from somewhere! there are plenty of people that have only packed a few reserves and all of those thaht have packed 100's or 1000's had only packed a few at some point in time too.
<<

Indeed. But a properly trained rigger, even with one pack job, should be aware of proper closing loop length and closing sequence. It's in the manual.

So this has nothing to do with experience level. In fact, I really like new riggers. Their attention to detail can be amazing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[diablopilot 2]

It's a problem that has been helped along with the practice of smaller and smaller containers and people's foolish desired to overstuff them.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Samurai136 0]

Quote

It's a problem that has been helped along with the practice of smaller and smaller containers and people's foolish desired to overstuff them.

The rigger does not have to pack those rigs.

Besides the closing loop length there was/ is the issue of coil lock. Any Sloppy rigging can contribute to the reserve PC not launching.

If you follow the manufacturer's instructions, the system will function as designed. Deviation from the instructions opens the opportunity for total mulfunctions.

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[rhys 0]

Quote

So this has nothing to do with experience level. In fact, I really like new riggers. Their attention to detail can be amazing.

True dat!

Experience can bring complacency as well as competence.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[riggermick 6]

I was surprised to find out that it was rather easy to lock the reserve container up. We did have the loop a little long as you can see in the video that it isn't the best looking reserve pack-job ever done, but certainly a pack job that you may see in the field for sure. We did not lubricate the closing loop as mentioned in the AD for the Mirage but my rigger admitted that he hardly never does it on most rigs anyway.



When single pin reserve containers were first introduced in the 1970's the problem of container lock reared it's ugly head, it had occured on multi pin rigs previously but for different reasons. It became evident very early on that the smaller (especially narrower) a reserve container became the more likley it was it would "lock up" under certain conditions.

A wide top reserve pilot chute with a reinforced top (hard cap, plastic etc) could and did catch the edges of the reserve side flap stiffeners on the outer edge of the pilot chute top thus causing a "lock". The video looks similar to that type of scenario but has some differences. To counter this problem inverted cone springs were used (wide coils on the bottom small coils at the top) and seemed to solve the problem, they did hovever have some problems of their own, most notably they couldn't jump very far from the jumper (not enough stored kinetic energy). Longer springs (inverted cone type) were tried and had some success but were a bitch to pack!!

Eventually manufacturers went to longer and ultamatly more powerfull "wide" springs, obstensibly to "blast" their way through the container and out in to the air stream. In order to use wide top pilot chutes in narrow rigs again the hard caps needed to be modified, so padding, smooth outer fabric in the cap and fully covered side flap stiffeners that are narrower than their predecessors seemed to do the trick.

Getting back to your video, using what I have just outlined to you, factor in incorrect loop length, side flap stiffeners already perched on the edge of the pilot chute cap, a spring that has already lost some of it's stored energy (making it's push weaker) and un-lubericated loop. All of this combined is just what's needed to cause this type of problem.

Because of the high performance gear we use today the rigging error factor is substantialy lower now than in the past. Make sure your rigger is up to speed! It's also one of the reasons manufacturers try to find ways to minimize rigging errors such as moving the cutter above the pilot chute. Pop tops already have the advantage of having their pilot chutes out side the container and so cutter placement can be done on the pack tray, the pilot chute /cutter ratio is not really a factor under this scenario.

Mick.

[johnny1488 1]

So are you saying you believe the lock to be caused by the cap pushing againts the stiffeners or the loop getting locked in the grommets?

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[riggermick 6]

Quote

So are you saying you believe the lock to be caused by the cap pushing againts the stiffeners or the loop getting locked in the grommets?

Correct sir!!



All of the above! Take one element out of the equation and you will in all likelyhood have an open container. The easiest one to isolate is the loop length, even on a really bad pack job. By moving the cutter above the pilot chute you are left with a finite loop length to deal with which is not very long. Problem solved with out a lot of re-design.

Mick.

[johnny1488 1]

True, the problem is solved.

But how easy is it to happen, when the rigger is aware that it can happen?

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[riggermick 6]

Quote

True, the problem is solved.

But how easy is it to happen, when the rigger is aware that it can happen?

Beats the crap outta me, that's more of a philosophical question than a technical one. If the rigger follows the rules the outcome will generally be the same, good!

Mick.

[johnny1488 1]

Thats what I figured. No gremlins or boogiemen here!

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[riggerrob 558]

This reminds me of another problem caused by too long a closing loop.

Back in 1997, we were doing table tests on the Telesis container for retired President George Bush's first AFF jump. It had a very complex main container including a spring-loaded pilot chute, a double-ended closing loop, an FXC 12000 Rev M and two ripcords.
Several times when we pulled the reserve-side ripcord, nothing happened. We eventually concluded that the pilot chute was squeezing the closing loop against the underside of grommet in the bottom flap. The resultant friction held the container closed.
Our only solution was to shorten the loop to the point that it was difficult to close.
This configuration would never work in the hands of the average professional packer and Sandy said: "This is the last rig - of this configuration - that we will ever build."

In conclusion, if you install a closing loop 1/2 inch longer - than recommended by the container manufacturer - you are going to create problems.

[ChrisClark 0]

In 1995 there was a BPA SI (safety information) report about those types of AFF secondary handles, a rigger got a table top total. The pilot chute spring has to force the flaps apart in the opposite order, the flaps have to slide apart instead of flipping off of the loop as they are trapped by the pin which is still in the loop (Imagine a closing loop in reverse). This all depends on the flexiblility of the loop material, normal 2a sheathing etc is too stiff. There are better systems that pull the pin directly.

Concerning the Cypres loop, on a visit to Airtec I asked about my Javelin and the reserve loop placement, ie the whole loop once cut must be pulled out of the container through the freebag & PC so that the top flaps seperate and you get a deployment. The answer was the loop material is flexible enough and it is lubricated, this factor was considered in the design and all cypres set-ups and cutter placements are checked by Airtec. The rigger there regularly packs and test fires containers (similar to the video) to check that the design works. Sloppy rigging in the field has obviously taken the design to the limit. If you have a rigger that is a fool then buy fool proof gear otherwise get a riiger who understands the limits on your gear.

[punchur 0]

There is something else I find a need to bring to people's attention...

I personally found this happening on one of MY Vectors a couple of years ago...it had a defect that left undetected from the factory and then went through several riggers hands before being discovered by the Master rigger who assisted me while I was working towards getting my ticket....


The pilot chute spring has to force the flaps apart in the opposite order, the flaps have to slide apart instead of flipping off of the loop as they are trapped by the pin which is still in the loop

What was found on my rig was that there were a bunch of really little plastic tits protruding inward on the side flaps where the stiffeners had been sewn into place...apparently from a bad needle "punching" it's way through the plastic is the only thing we could come up with...it drove the plastic out rather than piercing it. They were really small, but what was happening was that when the flaps needed to SLIDE APART, there was just enough protruding to restrict the flaps from sliding, and I could get my rig to sit still EVEN WITH THE PIN PULLED until I'd bump the sides of the container with my elbows...scary shit! With a freshly closed container, it wouldn't hesitate...probably because the tits didn't have time to "seat" themselves. Kind of like velcro and the strength differences between it being primed or not...

We carefully removed all the plastic tits from the stitching and there is no longer a problem with hesitation on the rig. I'm not saying that this is a common problem but it has certainly become something I check for on every rig I repack! I know I'd be feeling the flaps on the rig in the video...all it takes is a few plastic tits to ruin your day. Boy, that just sounds wrong.......

[rigger_john 0]

Quote

In 1995 there was a BPA SI (safety information) report about those types of AFF secondary handles, a rigger got a table top total. The pilot chute spring has to force the flaps apart in the opposite order, the flaps have to slide apart instead of flipping off of the loop as they are trapped by the pin which is still in the loop (Imagine a closing loop in reverse). This all depends on the flexiblility of the loop material, normal 2a sheathing etc is too stiff. There are better systems that pull the pin directly.

I feel I can comment on this particular incident as I was the rigger that brought the problem to light. In fact there was nothing wrong with the system itself

The problem came from people making loops longer than the original factory spec, because it was easier to pack the main.

With the right loop length we couldn't get the pack to lock.

That said I agree there are better systems that pull the ripcord directly out of a normal type closing loop

_________________________________________

Nullius in Verba

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

The problem came from people making loops longer than the original factory spec, because it was easier to pack the main.

I agree with you. If the container/canopy are packed correctly there is very little chance of it locking up.

But I am pretty sure I can take any system made today and using a combination of the right (wrong) techniques get that system to “lock” at least 50% of the time. To avoid this, RTFM and pack it correctly.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[billbooth 10]

On page 29 of our Vector 3 Owner's Manual it states: "Fully compress the spring to see how much loop can be pulled through the top of the pilot chute. If you can pull more than 1/2 to 3/4 inches (1.3 - 1.9 cm) through, the loop is too long." My riggers tell me that this works out to a total, pre-tensioned loop length of no more than 5 inches (13 cm), on every rig we make, from the smallest to the largest. These numbers are especially critical when using an AAD.

[riggerrob 558]

The rigger does not have to pack those rigs.

If you follow the manufacturer's instructions, the system will function as designed. Deviation from the instructions opens the opportunity for total mulfunctions.