alexey 6 #26 February 8, 2006 About Javelin open corners... How clear it looks... Really nice as for me... Is there any drawback of such design - for throw out PC? As I see - there is no way to open container like this in wrap-aroud style design? How secure is brigle cover flap on Jav with comparison with wrap-around style (where you hide bridle under side flap)? Are open corners worth using additional bridle cover, or do you much prefere wrap-around style?Lexa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #27 February 8, 2006 QuoteSo if you were using a wingsuit every so often, but also doing other disciplines, should you not be using a rig with open corners for the non wingsuit jumps? Also I originally thought when it said open corners it meant open corners on the main pack tray only, am I wrong is it both main and reserve or soley reserve? Open or "dynamic" corners are in no way needed for succesful use of a wingsuit, or clean deployments with one. They also have the tendancy to make rigs look bulky, bulging, and generaly messy if the wrong canopy sizes are stuffed in. My advice is don't bother with them.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #28 February 8, 2006 QuoteInteresting. I hadn't ever heard that angle on it, Mick. Where did that information come from or do you design rigs or work for a manufacturer? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hee hee! Mick Cottle designed and manufactured a thousand Reflex harness containers. . Well.... excusse me Rob! I didn't recognize Mick as the designer / manufacturer of the Reflex. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #29 February 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteDo you have some pictures about a Javelin with dynamic corner mod? I do. Thanks for those photos. That helps greatly to understand what that option is all about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggermick 6 #30 February 9, 2006 Hee hee! Mick Cottle designed and manufactured a thousand Reflex harness containers. That would be 2000 Reflexes Rob. Mick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggermick 6 #31 February 9, 2006 Iteresting. I hadn't ever heard that angle on it, Mick. Where did that information come from or do you design rigs or work for a manufacturer? I've been known to dabble in it from time to time. Mick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #32 February 9, 2006 Quote Iteresting. I hadn't ever heard that angle on it, Mick. Where did that information come from or do you design rigs or work for a manufacturer? I've been known to dabble in it from time to time. Mick. Yeah, I'm sure my post made RiggerRob's day... Anyway, thanks for the information and my bad for not knowing you were the designer and original manufacturer of the Reflex. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #33 February 9, 2006 QuoteHow clear it looks... Really nice as for me... Is there any drawback of such design - for throw out PC? Like someone mentioned, packing takes a few seconds longer. Quote As I see - there is no way to open container like this in wrap-aroud style design? Why not? Although usually "wrap-around" rigs are modified with the much more simple "open-corners" mod, where the bottom corner seam is simply opened without adding the triangular bits of the "dynamic corners" This thread has pictures of my "open corners" modified Atom Legend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #34 February 9, 2006 A very astute observation Grasshopper. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #35 February 9, 2006 Let me clarify something as a very valid point was brought up about friction staging. If you look at the pictures of my containers open corners that I posted and compare them to the pictures PBLA 4024 posted, you will see a distinct difference. While it can be said that both are "open corners", it is obvious that one is more open than the other. The problem with corners that are opened as seen in PBLAs photos is as stated previously by Mick. What can happen is that during the deployment process the D bag can end up above the bridle and pilot chute once the pin is pulled. To test this on the ground, have someone pull your PC and bridle out until the pin pulls. If the D bag falls out of the container as soon as the pin is pulled, you could potentially have the deployment problem mentioned. As been mentioned, fully open corners was once the norm. In the beginning of ram airs, before the development of the piggy back friction concept, Para-Flite used a bag retainer strap in the main container which was a piece of webbing sewn to the container at it's center. The ends had a gormmet on one end and a rubberband on the other. It wrapped around the bag and a stow was made holding the ends together. The stow was made with the main bridle.The bag was held until the PC had "positive drag". This meant it was out of the burbble and would lift the bag off. If one intends to open thier corners for Birdman flights make sure that there is still enough corner sewn so that the needed friction is still present. Along with packing the D bag grommet up, these two modifications can aid in a cleaner deployment during wingsuit flights."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #36 February 9, 2006 QuoteAs been mentioned, fully open corners was once the norm. In the beginning of ram airs, before the development of the piggy back friction concept, Para-Flite used a bag retainer strap in the main container which was a piece of webbing sewn to the container at it's center. The ends had a gormmet on one end and a rubberband on the other. It wrapped around the bag and a stow was made holding the ends together. The stow was made with the main bridle.The bag was held until the PC had "positive drag". This meant it was out of the burbble and would lift the bag off. That's interesting argument. AFAK pin needs some pull force to open; PC is inflated and pulling, so what extra positive drag is expected with the D-bag? I've jumped a Racer Elite with totally open corners, I had no problem with it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tr027 0 #37 February 9, 2006 Yea, same thing here. Until recently I was jumping a Dolphin with totally open corners, never had a problem (but that also was a statistically small sample;not 1 or 2 thousand jumps). edit: when I got my new rig I wondered why the corners were only partly open and perhaps this is the reason why."The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #38 February 9, 2006 http://www.jumpshack.com/Images/Home/MagazineSize_We've_Got_Your_Back.jpg I'm sorry you should know more about racer than me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alexey 6 #39 February 9, 2006 QuoteLike someone mentioned, packing takes a few seconds longer. I was asking mainly about bridle covering... Why Javelin makes additional flap, instead of simply longer sideflap to make wrap-around for bridle covering? What is pro and cos for each way...Lexa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #40 February 9, 2006 QuoteWhy Javelin makes additional flap, instead of simply longer sideflap to make wrap-around for bridle covering? What is pro and cos for each way... Actually, riggermick's BOC routing system on the Reflex is perfectly suited for good bridle protection with open corners. I don't know that that design has any cons. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggermick 6 #41 February 9, 2006 Actually, riggermick's BOC routing system on the Reflex is perfectly suited for good bridle protection with open corners. I don't know that that design has any cons. Derick would never stoop to using an idea invented by a "mere colonial", it's not British you know! The corner will work on just about every type of main container out there and would work well with the "open corner" concept used by wing suiters. Even though a jumper may have no deployment problems over many hundreds of deployments using this method (open corners), one day he will. Now, multiply these few hundred deployments by say 100,000 and it becomes pretty obvious that someone somewhere will have a problem one day. For those who still insist that friction staging is not entirely nessessary neither is a Sky Hook or an AAD..............Until you need one. Then nothing else in the world is as important. Mick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites