Making new line set by riger vs buing new one at factory

[kanada 0]

I own Conquest 170 and in future I would need to change lines. New line set costs USD 200 at factory store. My question is what cons would be if this set would be made by riger to original spec's.

Thanks

[ripcord4 0]

What is your life worth? $200 or somewhat less?

[sundevil777 93]

I would be OK with it if the rigger is experienced at doing this and has the proper equipment/setup, perhaps by previously working for a manufacturer or at one of the larger rigging lofts. At least then you might actually know who is doing it. If a rigger does not have a lot of experience doing this, then forget it.

You might only save a little, plus save on shipping, but another big benefit could be the fast turnaround.

Just because it is done at the mfg doesn't mean they can't do a bad job. Relines are not only done at the mfg.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

Well, if you buy a new line set from the factory at about $200 and then have a rigger install it... he or she is going to charge you that plus some additional amount to install the new line-set.

Now go ask him or her what they would charge you construct the new line set themselves (if they'll even do it) and then install it?

What's your point?

Are you trying to figure out have to save a few bucks?

The last couple of times I've sent my whole canopy back to the factory for a line set and had them do it, the whole cost was around $200 (slightly over). So are you sure that's the cost if you bought the line-set and had a local rigger install it themselves?

[marinho 0]

Hi Kanada,
My personal opinion, don't ever buy any line set made from anyone than the manufacturer.
Here is the deal:
A person went to college to become, let's say, an aeronautical engineer. After he graduated, he/she went to work for a canopy manufacturer for years learning the how, what is called the DDT process, to DESIGN, DEVELOP AND TEST.
Now, someone with a rigging license tells you that he can make a line set because maybe he has the specifications for your canopy.
Specifications do not mean DEVELOPMENT!
If the canopy flies great, it does not mean TESTING!
Master rigger does not mean DESIGNER!
Even if manufacturers can make mistakes, they still have a whole process like quality control and specific procedures like room temperature, humidity, etc. So $200.00 is a good price and good for piece of mind that we look for when we leave the door.
I hope these personal comments help you!
Cheers,
Gus Marinho
Rigging Solutions

Gus Marinho

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Hi Kanada,
My personal opinion, don't ever buy any line set made from anyone than the manufacturer.
Here is the deal:
A person went to college to become, let's say, an aeronautical engineer. After he graduated, he/she went to work for a canopy manufacturer for years learning the how, what is called the DDT process, to DESIGN, DEVELOP AND TEST.
Now, someone with a rigging license tells you that he can make a line set because maybe he has the specifications for your canopy.
Specifications do not mean DEVELOPMENT!
If the canopy flies great, it does not mean TESTING!
Master rigger does not mean DESIGNER!
Even if manufacturers can make mistakes, they still have a whole process like quality control and specific procedures like room temperature, humidity, etc. So $200.00 is a good price and good for piece of mind that we look for when we leave the door.
I hope these personal comments help you!
Cheers,
Gus Marinho
Rigging Solutions

If you trust the canopy manufacturer enough to build the canopy, you should trust them enough to build the lines.

Having said that, there are many master riggers that are more than capable of meeting or exceeding manufacturer's quality standards. There is nothing wrong with using a good, knowledgeable local rigger.

For Great Deals on Gear

[hookitt 0]

Something to be aware of with the Conquest canopy. It becomes very unstable and is prone to collapse if the front risers are pulled down.

Good luck

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[masterrigger1 2]

Kanada,

Line sets can be made to exacting standards outside of the factory, we do it all of the time, even for a couple of manufacturers.

Regardless, you do need a very knowledgeble and well equipped rigger to install them.

Factory line sets have been sold to riggers that neither have the ratings or knowledge to properly install them. The end result was still the same;a canopy that is not in proper trim.

There are probably less than 20 riggers/rigging lofts in the USA that I would recomend to do that type of work.

MEL
Skyworks Parachute Service
"The Icarus Service Center"

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[marinho 0]

Kanada,
Let me give an example how things can go bad when you have people, like masterrigger1 mentioned, without any knowledge performing rigging work.
I have a customer that had his triathlon brake lines replaced and the inboard attachment brake modification done(with vectran line=wrong).
After complaining about funky openings, he finally had one that caused his canopy to almost split in half and off course he had to cut away.
After talk with the manufacturer service department, they asked who the heck did do this mod??
End of the story:
01 cut away and $895.00 in expenses for repair and lost parts.
So like masterrigger1 said, there are only a few people that can perform this job, but I still stay on my opinion that only manufacturers are the right one for the jobs.
For example, I have a few canopies to be relined(triathlon, vengeance, FX and a tandem) and I already ordered the lines from the manufacturer
I had installed a lot of linesets and so far without any problem. I hope it never happens to me because it could be very, very embarassing.
Just think about it, be smart and use common sense.
Cheers,
Gus Marinho
Rigging Solutions

Gus Marinho

[chachi 0]

not trying to steal anyones thunder, but installing a new line set is a joke if you have a bartacker.

i also dont think making line sets is hard if you know how to finger trap and you are precise in your work.

for you and your conquest though, probably easier to send the canopy and have them install it. they only need changing every so often. with HP canopies, especially ones with HMA you need to change way more often. it may be worth it in a case like that.

[masterrigger1 2]

Gus,
Putting Vectran on canopy is not wrong, just not stock.

As long as the canopy is in trim, it is in trim no matter what.

In fact, Vectran on a Tri is a good thing from what we have seen here.

The openings are consistant throughout the life of the lines and the trim stays the same Vs Spectra that does not.

The Version 4.0 Mod should have made your customer's canopy open slower than before.

It is a very simple mod, hard to screw up, but anything is possible.

The inboard line is longer, allowing more air to pass out the rear. That should make less stress on the center cell. So, I do not understand where the center cell damage came from.

Your customer must have had some other issues with his canopy also!

But I do know that people that had the mod done after they bought the canopy took time to get adjusted to the different openings that the mod created.


MEL
Skyworks Parachute Service
"The Icarus Service Center"

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[kanada 0]

Many thanks for taking your time and responding to my query. I was thinking to use paraglide manufacturer to do this but they could stuff it up any way. I will probably send a canopy to Aerodyne for reline when the time comes. I was just concern about all the hassle going through Polish customs office

Hookitt thanks for that info I knew something is funny is going on when I do front risers up high but I didn't know that it may collapse on you.

[aironscott 3]

Mel -
I'd lke to back you up on this one.
When I had the loft in eloy we did a bunch of tests with Triathalons and wing suit deployments.
Mostly because my bros all had wing suits and were trying to dial in triathlons cuz they're square.
Being that the trim is stable on vectran lines and that wingsuit jumps deploy at sub-terminal speeds we determined that vectran was superior for that type of jump.
Now we can debate the virtues of static, streatch, shrinking lines all day long but (as you know) they all have their place depending on what we want out of a line and canopy.
Its a great thing that we have the options to choose!

Cya
Aaron

p.s. you're my hero

“God Damn Mountain Dew MotherFuckers!”

[riggerrob 558]

If you don't have to deal with customs, it is probably cheaper to just mail your canopy to the factory for re-line.
For example, Performance Designs charges the same for a line kit whether they mail it or install it at the factory, ergo the labor is free.
Most field riggers will charge you the full price of a factory line kit, plus about 4 hours worth of labor to install it.
Asking your local rigger to install a (factory) line kit can be better in the middle of the busy season. Your local rigger only needs a day or two to install a line kit as opposed to the backlog at the factory and weeks lost by shipping companies.
The farther you are from the factory, the more cost effective it becomes to ask a local rigger to manufacture a complete line kit. For example, an Italian rigger mentioned that customs duties on line kits (from PD) are so expensive that it is cheaper for him to cut line kits from scratch.
I used to cut line kits - from scratch - back when rectangular canopies were fashionable (Triathlon, Sabre 1, Master 425) but quit when tiny tapered canopies came into fashion. I just can't maintain the tight tolerances required for sub-100 square foot canopies.
The other issue is that this grumpy old Master Rigger is not fast enough to compete with little Honduran ladies, not is he willing to work for their wages.

[mark 102]

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Performance Designs charges the same for a line kit whether they mail it or install it at the factory, ergo the labor is free.

I know this is true for Flight Concepts, but I'm not as sure as you about PD.

PD requires an inspection ($15?) before they work on a canopy. Plus they ship the canopy on a card. If I have to assemble a canopy returned from a factory reline, I have to charge for my time. On the other hand, if I do the reline it's easier for me to assemble the canopy on risers than it is to assemble it on a card -- so no extra charge for assembly.

Mark

[riggerrob 558]

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Performance Designs charges the same for a line kit whether they mail it or install it at the factory, ergo the labor is free.

I know this is true for Flight Concepts, but I'm not as sure as you about PD.

PD requires an inspection ($15?) before they work on a canopy. Plus they ship the canopy on a card. If I have to assemble a canopy returned from a factory re-line, I have to charge for my time. On the other hand, if I do the re-line it's easier for me to assemble the canopy on risers than it is to assemble it on a card -- so no extra charge for assembly.

Mark

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

All good riggers (inside or outside of factories) fully inspect canopies before re-lining them.
It is part of the cost of doing business.
Get used to it.

There is no point to re-lining a faded, frayed or filthy canopy because it will just disintegrate a few jumps later.
Did you hear about the old canopy sent to PD that failed pull test at maybe 9 pounds. (Meanwhile, new fabric can easily withstand a 40 pound pull.) When they called the customer, he replied "Can't you just sew on a new top skin?"
ROFLMAO!

I don't trust PD to assemble canopies on risers. The last time a canopy returned from PD - with new lines - they had assembled it on the old risers. When the customer asked me to help attach his canopy to his harness, I took one look at the fraying around the grommets and said "There is no way you are jumping these risers on this DZ."
Monday morning he ordered new risers.
Monday morning I had a long chat with an embarrassed manager at PD.
That won't happen again.

[mark 102]

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All good riggers (inside or outside of factories) fully inspect canopies before re-lining them.
It is part of the cost of doing business.
Get used to it.

I agree. My point was just that if I have recommended a customer get his canopy relined, I've already inspected it -- so he'll pay the inspection fee twice by sending his canopy to PD.

Mark

[marinho 0]

I agree. My point was just that if I have recommended a customer get his canopy relined, I've already inspected it -- so he'll pay the inspection fee twice by sending his canopy to PD.
Mark
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Hi Mark,
No matter who inspected the canopy, the manufacturer, or whoever is relining the canopy, will perform a complete inspection on it.
Here is how our company perform an inspection for lines trim. It's quick and easy!
Spectra line
Outboard line with inboard center cell line together (A1 & A5/A4)
Less then 2" difference is ok
Between 2 and 3" "should" be relined
Over 3" "must" be relined

It means, as part of our company normal inspection procedures when packing a reserve, we also inspect a few more components of the gear and also check the lines trim of the main canopy. We give a good attention to the brake lines also.



Gus Marinho
Rigging Solutions

Gus Marinho

[CrazyL 0]

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The other issue is that this grumpy old Master Rigger is not fast enough to compete with little Honduran ladies.

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Now that made me L M A O !!! So true ,so true.

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