Basic training

[Vebbyson 0]

Recently have begun to jump IAD. Have 6 jumps. But have not yet received a comprehensive training on the rig. Ground school did not include any time reviewing the rig. I want to see and touch the canopy the front and rear risers etc. how does this thing work, never seen an IAD. Would like to feel what the cutaway and reserve pull (before I'm in the air) feels like.
This lack of knowledge has been bugging me. Just read an article that described someone else's ground school, says they spent a lot of time learning and looking at The entire rig.
Is my experience normal should I be patient & wait for this in the next ground school?

[yoink 321]

Your experience sounds normal to me.

I certainly didn't go through hanging harness cutaways as a student, and only got the most basic orientation to the gear.

Look at it this way - most people can only absorb so much information in a certain amount of time so they teach you what you need to know. If you want to know more, ask.

If they start refusing to explain stuff to you, that's when I'll doubt the quality of instruction.

[AtrusBatleth 0]

I'll second the comment that if you want to know more, ask. I would expect them to have some kind of cutaway practice handles (though not necessarily suspended). It really helped me to understand the rig when I learned how to pack a parachute. At my DZ this is taught as a separate ground class; not sure how yours will be setup.

[councilman24 36]

You'll eventually be a rigger. But many experienced jumpers don't know much about their gear. As a student for now concentrate on your performance. Suspended harness cutaway is valuable but it's not unusual not to do any in a first jump course. As to pulling a real ripcord? Be assured you can but that's part of the mystery of your first malfunction. Until you have your own gear the opportunity to pull a real reserve ripcord will be rare. They are only opened every 6 months and then often under controlled conditions and not at the DZ. And the jumpers around you will usually want to pull their own. If you happen to be around when the student gear is opened they may let you pull one but that's likely to be off season or during the week and certainly not usually in the middle of a busy student day. I have all by rigging customers pull theirs when they deliver it but again, that's once a year in the north, twice a year if jumping all year round.

Often there are parts of the gear we sometimes don't WANT the students to know about. You need to follow your training for now. Sometimes more knowledge might cause you to second guess the training you've received. It's not secret, it's not hard. You just don't need to know for now.

BTW between my first to jumps and restarting a year and half later I read every issue of Parachutist ever published. So I knew why a green star trac II was called a 'death star'. Anybody younger than about 55 may not know what I'm talking about. I was likely the most knowledgeable student that instructor ever had. Knowing more isn't bad. Just not necessary now. Of course I didn't know that SST stood for Struggle, Struggle, Thump before I bought my second rig and I wished I did.

Download the owners manual for the gear your using from the manufacturer. Read it. Many new owners don't bother doing that. Then ask some questions on a rain or wind day.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Snowcrash 0]

yoink

Your experience sounds normal to me.

I certainly didn't go through hanging harness cutaways as a student, and only got the most basic orientation to the gear.

Look at it this way - most people can only absorb so much information in a certain amount of time so they teach you what you need to know. If you want to know more, ask.

If they start refusing to explain stuff to you, that's when I'll doubt the quality of instruction.

Wow, how little you know... "You" as in me I mean. Hanging harness and EP practice under an increasing degree of complication and stress is probably the biggest part of ground school here. I was sure it was for everybody. In our club it's also required for annual license renewal for A-C licenses (D license is exempted).

The equipment part is relatively brief though. Try a rig on, go through the main parts, but only the basics. For a B license though the "Materials and packing" course is mandatory. It's about 8 hours and includes a more thorough review of the gear, pulling a reserve ripcord in group etc.

[yoink 321]

Snowcrash

Wow, how little you know... "You" as in me I mean. Hanging harness and EP practice under an increasing degree of complication and stress is probably the biggest part of ground school here. I was sure it was for everybody. In our club it's also required for annual license renewal for A-C licenses (D license is exempted).

The equipment part is relatively brief though. Try a rig on, go through the main parts, but only the basics. For a B license though the "Materials and packing" course is mandatory. It's about 8 hours and includes a more thorough review of the gear, pulling a reserve ripcord in group etc.

Sweden tends to be more... thorough, lets say () about some aspects of skydiving. The mandatory downsizing gates are another example of more applied rules than many other countries have.
I don't think it's a bad thing, but I don't think hanging harness drills are necessary for students, or even for re-currency. Great if you can get it though.

[skydivecat 3]

"But have not yet received a comprehensive training on the rig. Ground school did not include any time reviewing the rig... I want to see and touch the canopy the front and rear risers etc. how does this thing work"

Have you asked? Most students are dealing with enough brain overload that programs usually wait until beginning packing classes before getting into this. If you ask, I have a hard time believing that someone won't sit down and explain/show you. It is best to do this on a weather day or on a non-busy not middle of a beautiful jumping weekend day, a case of beer helps too.

"Would like to feel what the cutaway and reserve pull "

Cutaway you can do no problem with INSTUCTOR SUPERVISION while doing the packing/learning about the rig. Reserve pull, if you're willing to pay for the repack if it isn't due, I doubt you'll get too many arguments there either.

We don't know where you jump so we can't give you opinions of their program/how they do things/reputation. This is an adult sport though, if you want to learn/understand more, then ASK. if you are refused, then it would be fair to think that you aren't being given the information you need.

[Vebbyson 0]

Thx for all the replies. I think there is some validity in overloading someone and the first couple of jumps I didn't think about anything but what I was told.
We have a 3 more days that are local DZ is open till next spring. Think ill try to get some of these things explained to me if time allows.
Just wanted to know if i should have had this training already.
One more question... Is it appropriate or expected to tip your instructor?

[councilman24 36]

Your instructors and riggers don't disappear over the winter, for the most part. Winter is the time to learn these things. Whether it's a formal course, private training you pay for, or your bring a case and shoot the shit for an evening.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[DHemer 0]

Your profile does not say what country you are from, apparently student training is rather different to mine

Our students are shown the gear, we deploy the main and explain the deployment procedure and what various components are for. Everyone get to touch and feel and ask questions

Most importantly though, no student is cleared to jump until they have shown to be able to handle their emergency procedures correctly in a suspended harness (this means pulling handles in the correct order with the correct timing)

This is applicable to static line and AFF students.

I recommend speaking to an instructor and getting your questions answered. Once you land from a jump your gear is unpacked so lay it out and talk through everything before it gets packed

[ufk22 32]

IAD training covers the equipment over a number of categories. With 6 jumps, I'm thinking you are Cat B or C. I'm assuming you have received complete EP training during you FJC and complete review during your Cat B trainings.
Stand-up harness training has become the norm at most U.S. Drop zones. If used properly, it can be more effective than hanging harness because you get a lot more cut-away sequences than you would with a hanging harness.
There is a limit to how much can be covered during training while jumping is going on, but the best thing you can do is hang around after jumping is done, bring beer and ask people to spend some time showing you stuff.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[pchapman 261]

Skipping non-essential gear info at the start is normal.

The problem at some dz's is that after that, there may not be any particular points to teach you those additional details. I've seen it (outside the USA) where instructors just add tidbits of additional information over subsequent jumps, if they happen to have time, but without having any structure or checklist to follow. One does sometimes have to be active and ask for additional help.

Some aspects of the gear (parts but not procedures) may also get explained more once you start taking packing lessons. Which may be a formal course, or informally done at a smaller DZ over time.

[Vebbyson 0]

Here's a link to an article that made me wonder if my ground school missed something. http://www.kturby.com/skydive/groundschool
Thanks for the great replies here. I'll be taking your advice and get together with some others to better learn the equipment.

Thinking of traveling south this winter for a vacation to continue my training.

[rjblake 1]

Guess I was really lucky then. My instructor is also a Master Rigger, so spent Day 1 doing ground school, theory and practice. Facility had a hanging harness for practicing EPs and also purpose built 'rigs' to wear and practice deployments and EPs. Got the opportunity to cutaway and pull a reserve handle on a rig that was just in for a repack; so an added bonus. I'm guessing mileage may vary; but it depends on the instructors and the schools as this is not required per the SIM for a Category-A jump from what I recall.

[SmithK 0]

Your experience is normal. But Your ground school is the most important aspect of your skydive training.

[rogerkern 0]

At our dz I inow we go over the rig completely and take out the main to show how it comes off the back. And we have a hanging harness to practice cut always, this is a part of fjc we spend several hours talking about how you can die. Practice plf etc. so I just don't get how they can teach fjc and not go over the rig completely to include the aad. Surely we can not be the only dz that does that and review it before every jump.

[tikl68 6]

At my home DZ the students are shown a rig/canopy and get to touch,and get the basics of how,why, and what in the FJC, and we have mock harnesses with dummy handles to pull til it becomes almost automatic, but like the others have posted, sensory overload is a concern. I teach the AFF packing course and usually cover a lot during that time. Running jokes is"your taking tickles packing course"? and the students says"ya whats wrong with that"? " Nothing, its a packing/mild rigging course, you will learn a lot". It differs DZ to DZ.

[DrDom 0]

I did "most" of AFF, after the hanging harness I learned a little about the gear every jump. Little bits.
I would agree that it was info overload. As a physician I am used to info overload both in training and my daily life... and it was still a lot. I think the training is a "less is more" approach just like the military uses but if you ask i'm sure the instructors would LOVE to teach! That's what they do.

But if not you will learn over time, trust me ... they don't leave you hanging.

You are not the contents of your wallet.