RSL Speed

[Muppetdog 0]

Is it true that during a cutaway, an RSL gets your reserve out quicker then if your rig was not RSL equiped and you pulled manually, translating into less altitude lost during cutaway procedures?
Mark

[FlyinseivLP2 0]

Yea, If you used the two hands on each handle method and you RSL worked properly, your reserve would be deploying before you even got your hands on the reserve handle.

[boozy 0]

Yes, but what if you use the "one hand on each handle" method of deployment? Of course the RSL will be faster than your hands if you are taking the time to remove both hands from the cut-away then applying them to the reserve ripcord handle.

[thepollster 0]

You cannot be faster than a RSL and still pull your handles in the correct order. How much slower is dependant on the individual.

[rushmc 18]

Disclaimer...I am not an instructor or expert.

Depends on the mal.
I had a bag lock mal and an RSL. The RSL did not deploy the reserve and I am quite sure I was towing my trash until I pulled the reserve and released the main.

My point? I will contiue to use an RSL AND pull both handles as trained.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Muppetdog 0]

So theoretically, if some one were to lose situational awarness during a malfuction resulting in a low cutaway, the RSL could save you from having a really bad day.

[darkwing 4]

Being too fast on a one-hand-on-each-handle cutaway is not without its hazards. Having your hand slip, or having a hard pull on the cutaway handle can result in an entanglement of biblical propostions if your reserve gets pulled too soon.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[NelKel 0]

So theoretically, if some one were to lose situational awarness during a malfuction resulting in a low cutaway, the RSL could save you from having a really bad day<<<<<<<

Yes it can. Your going to find a lot of peoply have varing opions about RSL. They can cause problems when associated with other/special type jumping. Just a few examples would be CReW or jumping camera, freeflying. It has to be a personal choice, unless your a student then you have to have one or have an Instructor waiver it for you. You can not beat an RSL, no one can. For thoes one hand on each handle EP's if they say they beat the RSL, they actualy did an out of secquence EP and didn't relize it. There is usualy a tell-tail sign when an RSL activated reserve, it a small kink, or dent on the reserve cable due to the pull of the RSL loop near the closing loop on the rig.

The RWS has a Skyhook which is built upon the working of an RSL, I have never had a RSL used on my sport rig, but I have had a Shyhook on a Sigma Tandem. I'm not at all slow and I couldn't beat it. I know, I have had a couple of cut aways. In other words if I were to jump a tandem rig, and after leaving the plane I just pull the reserve there is a big probality I will not be able to compleatly extract the entire cable from the housing, due to the RSL connection in the back. Well on this particular jump I compleatly removed the reserve cable from the housing, so there for the RSL/skyhook beat me in my EP's

_________________________________________

Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan

[thepollster 0]

Quote

sure I was towing my trash until I pulled the reserve and released the main.

My point? I will contiue to use an RSL AND pull both handles as trained.

Did they train you to pull the reserve THEN release the main? Cutting away a bag lock should stop you from "towing my trash". That is how you wrote in, and being a rigger you should know how how an RSL works. That being said, I think RSL's are a good thing for the majority of jumpers.

[riggerrob 558]

May I quote two jumpers who know way more than me?
Rick Horn did 40 intentional cutaways while making a training film for the US Air Force. Despite all that practice, he was never able to beat the RSL.
In other words, the RSL always pulled the reserve ripcord before he could.

Troy Loney gave a fascinating presentation at the 1993 PIA Symposium. The title was something like "Container Design from the Pilot Chute's Perspective." Troy showed us video of dozens of intentional cutaways, that proved conclusively that the best time to pull a reserve ripcord is within one second of cutting away, while your spine is still vertical. At that moment, vertical airflow - up the jumper's spine - results in the quickest pilot chute launch.
Waiting 3 seconds or 5 seconds after cutting away resulted in pilot chute hesitations. It wasn't until 8 seconds after cutting away that they got consistent pilotchute launches.

In conclusion, RSLs launch reserve pilot chutes far faster than humans can pull ripcords, furthermore, RSLs pull ripcords at the best possible time for a good reserve pilot chute launch. Waiting 5 seconds - until you get stable - is a fool's errand.

15 of my last 20 reserve rides have involved RSLs. I never waited any longer than it took to confirm that my shoulders were clear before pulling my reserve ripcord.

[NelKel 0]

while your spine is still vertical. At that moment, vertical airflow - up the jumper's spine - results in the quickest pilot chute launch. <<<<<<

To all of you young jumpers that think you gonna wait to get stable before a pull reserve, your missinformed..........re-read what he wrote, and understand!

_________________________________________

Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Troy showed us video of dozens of intentional cutaways, that proved conclusively that the best time to pull a reserve ripcord is within one second of cutting away, while your spine is still vertical. At that moment, vertical airflow - up the jumper's spine - results in the quickest pilot chute launch.

Yes, yes, yes, and I say again YES!

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[riggermick 6]

Quote

Quote

sure I was towing my trash until I pulled the reserve and released the main.

My point? I will contiue to use an RSL AND pull both handles as trained.

Did they train you to pull the reserve THEN release the main? Cutting away a bag lock should stop you from "towing my trash". That is how you wrote in, and being a rigger you should know how how an RSL works. That being said, I think RSL's are a good thing for the majority of jumpers.

Most RSL configurations have the reserve static line attached at the main riser at one end and the guide ring around the reserve ripcord cable at the other. When one jettisons the main parachute and the risers release the only attachment point left is the RSL riser/ cable link, if there is insuffecient drag to withdraw the ripcord pin/ cable assy then the resut would be a tow. the only way to clear this would be to pull the ripcord thereby releasing the RSL/ main canopy. A baglock may well qualify this situation. So yes he did as trained, well done.


Mick.

[skydiverek 54]

Quote

sure I was towing my trash until I pulled the reserve and released the main.
My point? I will contiue to use an RSL AND pull both handles as trained.

Quote

Did they train you to pull the reserve THEN release the main? Cutting away a bag lock should stop you from "towing my trash".

From Bill Booth:
"Our Skyhook RSL tests show that a bag lock, with an inflated 27" pilot chute, will not only open the reserve container, it will (via the Skyhook) pull the reserve to line stretch in about 1/2 a second. However, you should always plan to pull the reserve ripcord yourself on any breakaway.

We do use a "direct pull" RSL (pin connected directly to one end of the RSL) rather than the more traditional ripcord-cable-through-ring RSL, which has been known to tow bag locks, as well as damage or break pins and cables."

AND

"We just went through this in the military test program to "certify" the Skyhook. At first they insisted on a "cable-through-ring" type RSL, instead of our direct-connect type. I couldn't talk them out of it, because that is what they have been using on other rigs for years. So I said, "OK, let's test it." On two out of the three bag lock tests, they towed the bag lock, once for over 1,000 feet.

Single sided, cable-through-ring RSL's are simply no longer acceptable, because a safer alternative exists. The funny thing is, I designed my "direct-connect" RSL over 25 years ago, and never patented it...yet very few other companies use it...even though the design is free, and has been "tested" on literally 1,000's of actual cutaways."

[rushmc 18]

Cutaway was pulled first, per normal training but, since a bag lock does not creat enough drag in my case the RSL did not pull the reserve cable. So the RSL was still connected to my rig and was dragging the main and risers.
When I pulled the reserve handle the RSL, main and risers were released.

This is a rare case and I posted it. Bill Booth responded saying he had done tests and could create this situation.

Hope that clears things up.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billbooth 10]

Quote

Quote

Quote

sure I was towing my trash until I pulled the reserve and released the main.

My point? I will contiue to use an RSL AND pull both handles as trained.

Did they train you to pull the reserve THEN release the main? Cutting away a bag lock should stop you from "towing my trash". That is how you wrote in, and being a rigger you should know how how an RSL works. That being said, I think RSL's are a good thing for the majority of jumpers.

Most RSL configurations have the reserve static line attached at the main riser at one end and the guide ring around the reserve ripcord cable at the other. When one jettisons the main parachute and the risers release the only attachment point left is the RSL riser/ cable link, if there is insuffecient drag to withdraw the ripcord pin/ cable assy then the resut would be a tow. the only way to clear this would be to pull the ripcord thereby releasing the RSL/ main canopy. A baglock may well qualify this situation. So yes he did as trained, well done.


Mick.

If you are towing your malfunction because of a poorly designed RSL, then you are probably going to have a really hard time pulling your reserve handle. In other words, the towed malfunction will quite possibly "lock up" your reserve ripcord cable because of the kink it is putting in it.

This is why I designed an RSL that is directly connected to the reserve ripcord pin 25 years ago. I did not patent it, so it is "free" for everyone to use. I simply cannot understand why the "cable through ring" RSL system, which also damages your ripcord cable every time as well, is still in use today.

[rushmc 18]

Thanks Bill!!! I know my next rig will have the skyhook. (hhhmmmmm, I wonder who makes that ??) I fully believe in having an RSL .....

Your posts after my mal convinced me what I needed to do.

Marc

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Oh, and if my reserve handle pulled hard? Given the situation I sure as hell did not notice it. The training kicked in and I am here to post about it.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[riggermick 6]

This is why I designed an RSL that is directly connected to the reserve ripcord pin 25 years ago. I did not patent it, so it is "free" for everyone to use. I simply cannot understand why the "cable through ring" RSL system, which also damages your ripcord cable every time as well, is still in use today.

[sundevil777 93]

Quote

uses too much velcro or the welded pin just plain scares the crap out of some folk.

I didn't know the RWS RSL used velcro.

I agree that the RWS pin looks like crap. It looks like something made from an old clothes hanger. However, if it is larger/stronger/stiffer than the wimpy std reserve pins used now, can it be adapted to another rig with no RSL? (I kinda know the answer is no)

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[billbooth 10]

The RWS static line pin has been one-piece stainless steel for many years now. It is made the same way, by the same company, as main hand deploy pilot chute curved pins.

[sundevil777 93]

Thanks for the info.

It is one of my pet peeves that reserve pins are so easy to bend. How does it stand up to the Capewell test?

I expect that it is not allowed, but I wonder if a rigger would be willing to install one of your ripcords on a non RWS rig.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[billvon 2,396]

>Rick Horn did 40 intentional cutaways while making a training film for
>the US Air Force. Despite all that practice, he was never able to beat the
> RSL. In other words, the RSL always pulled the reserve ripcord before he could.

I would also add that Rick was once saved by his RSL when he was unable to find his reserve handle after a spinning mal. At that point Rick had 5000 jumps or so, and taught AFF JCC's several times a year - so it is unlikely that he 'just forgot' or was rusty on emergency procedures. If it can happen to him . . .

[skydiverek 54]

Quote

I would also add that Rick was once saved by his RSL when he was unable to find his reserve handle after a spinning mal. At that point Rick had 5000 jumps or so, and taught AFF JCC's several times a year

From RICK HORN:

"I got saved by a backup device (RSL) on Thursday, August 28th. I
thought I'd relay the information.

My background:
5000+ jumps
107 cutaways (No, i don't need to learn how to pack, a lot of test
jumps and films.)
About 20 unplanned cutaways.
21 years jumping, AFF I/E, Static Line I/E, Full time instructor at Perris, AFF Course Director for USPA.

Equipment Background
Rig- Javelin, Articulated harness (Rings top and bottom), RSL and Cypres equipped.
Soft Reserve pillow
Main, Stiletto 135
Reserve- PD143R
I wear my leg straps and chest strap quite tight.

The jump:
A great AFF Level 4, the student did well, I watched deployment on the
student's canopy, and hung around to give a thumbs up for the camera. This put everything happening a little lower than usual, so I threw the main out at about 2100, as opposed to the usual 2500 since I've gotten older and hopefully wiser.

The main opened into a severe spin. There were no line twists, but I
don't know what caused the spin, as I could not see the left side of
the canopy. After the usual playing around with it, I decided to get
rid of it. My procedures are grab cutaway, grab reserve, pull cutaway,
pull reserve. I went for the cutaway handle, and to my surprise, it was
on the LEFT side of my chest.

I grabbed it, and reached for the reserve handle. It was somewhere under my left armpit. I could only touch it with my thumb, and not grab it. My theory is that a combination of the severe spin and the articulated harness allowed the handles to move so far. I had also practiced hooking my thumb between the reserve pillow and
the housing. I was unable to do it. I then pulled the cutaway handle, as I was not accomplishing anything in my attempt to find the reserve handle.

After pulling the cutaway, I continued to search for the reserve
pillow. I was unable to find it. I theorize that it tucked under the
main lift web as the harness slid back into position. That theory took
a couple of days to figure out. Being honest, I have my sincere doubts that I would have found the handle within the 6 seconds of working time that I had left. My RSL prevented me from knowing the answer.
I have since modified my rig to include a standard ripcord on the
reserve. This should also serve as a reminder that backup devices,
whether they be RSL or AAD can save your life, no matter what your
experience.

Please don't make this into a debate thread, there have been enough. I just wanted to share the experience, so people could make informed decisions.

Rick Horn
D-6277 AFFI/E
USPA AFF Course Director "

[RMURRAY 1]

excellent post!

read a similar one a couple of years ago. exactly why I will never get a soft reserve handle or a harness with hip and/or chest rings. remindes me that I should get an aad however. I'll get one with a swoop mode.

rm