cresTfall 0 #1 December 8, 2005 Unfortunately, I got motor oil on a zero-p canopy that I have only 2 jumps on. I was wondering if anyone knows how I could get it out or if it is even worth getting out. I have oil on an F-111 canopy that I use in more critical environments and it does not bother me. But, I am unsure what the implications could be on zero-p fabric. Could I just use mineral spirits and the rinse it completely out? I did that for sap one time. Any riggers that have done this before, I would appreciate your input. Please try and limit the opinions and speculation. Thanks JeremyPremier Member IGPA 2009 IGPA Overall Champion WWTAD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefalle 0 #2 December 8, 2005 ZP is ZP I would call PD or any of the major manufactures and ask them what they recommend. PD's # is (386) 734-8297 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cresTfall 0 #3 December 8, 2005 QuoteZP is ZP I have heard a little different but.... Quote PD's # is (386) 734-8297 That number is for a fax machine, but thanks anyway. JeremyPremier Member IGPA 2009 IGPA Overall Champion WWTAD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #4 December 8, 2005 How much oil are we talking about? A few drops? Canopy soaked in oil? Probably something in between. I made an experiment some time ago. I took some brand new ZP and cut it to pieces, then poured all sorts of crap on the sample pieces with the intention of leaving them in storage to see what the different chemicals do to the fabric. Unfortunately the new coating on the fabric was so ZP and so slippery that I had trouble getting my contaminants to stick on the fabric. With only two jumps on your canopy I'd say there is a fair chance that the oil hasn't done any damage(unless it's damaging the coating). I don't have a Poynter's manual handy and I can't remember what if anything motor oil does to nylon. Or how to clean it off. I'm sure someone will quote the Manual in a few moments. In any case, the standard answer is: Consult your local rigger. edit: the above assuming it's Soarcoat type fabric; if it's Gelvenor ZP it's much less slippery and I'm sure the oil will stick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #5 December 8, 2005 Quote Quote PD's # is (386) 734-8297 That number is for a fax machine, but thanks anyway. Jeremy Try 1.386.738.2224 That should get you a real live person at PD. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cresTfall 0 #6 December 8, 2005 Will the oil really cause any true weakening? It is not soaked there are a few spots here and there some larger than others the largest is probably 4-5" in diameter and the concern is because it is on the top skin of the center cell near the bridle attachment point. Also, this happened while I was kiting the canopy in the grass to make sure that it was attached properly to the risers and I didn't notice until about a month later. I am speclating that oil based stains "set" pretty much right off the bat so the duration of time shouldn't make too much difference. Can anyone confirm that? JeremyPremier Member IGPA 2009 IGPA Overall Champion WWTAD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #7 December 8, 2005 QuoteWill the oil really cause any true weakening? . . . Can anyone confirm that? I really don't know; I'm not a rigger. I just call PD a lot! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites isaiah85 0 #8 December 8, 2005 I just checked into it, apparently if the oil has been in the canopy for a long time you might have some problems with it. Oil will break down ZP fabric. Might not be a bad idea to send it in and have it looked at by the manufacturer. If you get oil on it, you want to clean it off pretty quickly with water and Woollite, and rinse off the soap well. Later, Isaiah Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #9 December 8, 2005 If, you have the owner's manual for the parachute, there should be information there on removing oil spots. If, there are just a few stains of oil, the parachute can be cleaned with naphtha or mineral spirits. Spot clean only, using clean cloths dipped in the naphths and lightly swiping the spots with naphtha. Turning the clean cloth often. Pat any excess naphtha with a clean dry cloth. Let it air dry. Naphtha or mineral spirits should be available at any hardware store. It won't hurt the 0-P fabric. If, there are large oil stains, I would recommend sending it to the manufacturer. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #10 December 8, 2005 Carbo-SolMy grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #11 December 9, 2005 QuoteCarbo-Sol ________________________________________ Do we know of any ill effects on Nylon, by using this product? Naphtha is recommended in Poynter's Parachute Manual for removal of grease and oil stains. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #12 December 9, 2005 Depends whether it is clean oil or dirty oil. Clean oil does not weaken nylon, just makes it look dirty. Think about it: they oil sewing machines on a regular basis and just wait for excess sewing machine oil to evaporate off of parachutes. Dirty oil (i.e. the oil on the hangar floor) is way more dangerous because it contains soot, un-burnt gasoline and a variety of other nasty chemicals that eat nylon. Dirty oil should be cleaned off promptly, but only in accordance with the canopy manufadcturer's instructions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #13 December 9, 2005 It's another dry cleaning agent that's been used for a long time. Poynters is great, but unfortunately doesn't list every usable product. My manual is packed up at the moment but if I recall, it list lighter fluid as well. Best I can tell, it has about as much detrimental affects as Naptha.... which is basically none. I learned about the product from Jason Bell. A BASE canopy gets stuff like road tar, grease, oil ... etc on it a lot more often than a skydiving canopy. Nylon is tough, it takes quite a bit more than a simple solvent or general adhesive cleaner to cause weakening. If you're curious, take a scrap of it and test it out. Seal it in a container because it will evaporate pretty quickly. In a pinch, it can be used to clean socks. Also, warm soap and water can be used on ZP to spot clean.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #14 December 9, 2005 QuoteIt's another dry cleaning agent that's been used for a long time. Poynters is great, but unfortunately doesn't list every usable product. My manual is packed up at the moment but if I recall, it list lighter fluid as well. Best I can tell, it has about as much detrimental affects as Naptha.... which is basically none. I learned about the product from Jason Bell. A BASE canopy gets stuff like road tar, grease, oil ... etc on it a lot more often than a skydiving canopy. Nylon is tough, it takes quite a bit more than a simple solvent or general adhesive cleaner to cause weakening. If you're curious, take a scrap of it and test it out. Seal it in a container because it will evaporate pretty quickly. In a pinch, it can be used to clean socks. Also, warm soap and water can be used on ZP to spot clean. ______________________________________ I appreciate the info! I learned something. Lighter fluid is only mineral spirits. Varsol/naphtha are a bit 'hotter. A few years ago, I did exactly what you said, about sealing a piece of )-P in a jar full of naphtha. End result? Nothing! I left it for a week, like that. Let it air-dry. Thanks, again. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cresTfall 0 #15 December 9, 2005 Thanks to all of you that posted. I truly do appreciate it and I think it is good for discussion. I have spoken with a few manufacturers as well and their first recommendation was always diluted Woolite dabbed rather than scrubbed. Also, they are stating what at least one of you said "Oil itself will not threaten the structural integrity of nylon parachute fabric, dirty used oil can." Having an engineering degree, I assumed this much (which I know may be a mistake) as they are both generated from petroleum and are generally minimally reactive in their purest form. Thank you to all who confirmed that to me. Now, the harsh chemical byproducts present in oil used in any type of internal combustion system will understandably harm the fabric as these left-over compounds are far from stable and pretty reactive. The loft that relined this canopy did mention the possibility of sewing machine oil coming into contact with the fabric and "staining" it. I cannot say whether or not this is the case as I don't know that I noticed the stains right away. That doesn't necessarily mean that they were not there. Here are the three most common answers that I received from manufacturers regarding cleaning oil based stains from zero-porosity fabric: 1. Diluted Woolite 2. Mineral Spirits 3. Rubbing Alcohol I think that the theory is to start gentle and then try more harsh cleaners. Of course after the fabric has been cleaned, it needs to be rinsed thoroughly with clean water per the manufacturers (and probably common sense). I have used mineral spirits in the past to remove some sap from the topskin of a zero porosity canopy and it worked well. That was only a surface issue though, no "setting" of a stain. Nice to see a thread where people are sharing honest technical information. Thanks again all, I think this will solve(nt) my problem JeremyPremier Member IGPA 2009 IGPA Overall Champion WWTAD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CrazyL 0 #16 December 12, 2005 Synthetic? or Natural? 5w 30? 10w 40? 80w 90? wipe it off as soon as possible, then call the manufacturer as soon as possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LuvToFly 0 #17 December 14, 2005 If going the Naptha route, use very adequate ventilation as it is a known carcenogin - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #18 December 14, 2005 QuoteIf going the Naptha route, use very adequate ventilation as it is a known carcenogin - ____________________________________________ You bet! That, should be a 'given' when using any solvent or cleaning agent. It never hurts to point that out. 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isaiah85 0 #8 December 8, 2005 I just checked into it, apparently if the oil has been in the canopy for a long time you might have some problems with it. Oil will break down ZP fabric. Might not be a bad idea to send it in and have it looked at by the manufacturer. If you get oil on it, you want to clean it off pretty quickly with water and Woollite, and rinse off the soap well. Later, Isaiah Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #9 December 8, 2005 If, you have the owner's manual for the parachute, there should be information there on removing oil spots. If, there are just a few stains of oil, the parachute can be cleaned with naphtha or mineral spirits. Spot clean only, using clean cloths dipped in the naphths and lightly swiping the spots with naphtha. Turning the clean cloth often. Pat any excess naphtha with a clean dry cloth. Let it air dry. Naphtha or mineral spirits should be available at any hardware store. It won't hurt the 0-P fabric. If, there are large oil stains, I would recommend sending it to the manufacturer. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #10 December 8, 2005 Carbo-SolMy grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #11 December 9, 2005 QuoteCarbo-Sol ________________________________________ Do we know of any ill effects on Nylon, by using this product? Naphtha is recommended in Poynter's Parachute Manual for removal of grease and oil stains. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #12 December 9, 2005 Depends whether it is clean oil or dirty oil. Clean oil does not weaken nylon, just makes it look dirty. Think about it: they oil sewing machines on a regular basis and just wait for excess sewing machine oil to evaporate off of parachutes. Dirty oil (i.e. the oil on the hangar floor) is way more dangerous because it contains soot, un-burnt gasoline and a variety of other nasty chemicals that eat nylon. Dirty oil should be cleaned off promptly, but only in accordance with the canopy manufadcturer's instructions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #13 December 9, 2005 It's another dry cleaning agent that's been used for a long time. Poynters is great, but unfortunately doesn't list every usable product. My manual is packed up at the moment but if I recall, it list lighter fluid as well. Best I can tell, it has about as much detrimental affects as Naptha.... which is basically none. I learned about the product from Jason Bell. A BASE canopy gets stuff like road tar, grease, oil ... etc on it a lot more often than a skydiving canopy. Nylon is tough, it takes quite a bit more than a simple solvent or general adhesive cleaner to cause weakening. If you're curious, take a scrap of it and test it out. Seal it in a container because it will evaporate pretty quickly. In a pinch, it can be used to clean socks. Also, warm soap and water can be used on ZP to spot clean.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #14 December 9, 2005 QuoteIt's another dry cleaning agent that's been used for a long time. Poynters is great, but unfortunately doesn't list every usable product. My manual is packed up at the moment but if I recall, it list lighter fluid as well. Best I can tell, it has about as much detrimental affects as Naptha.... which is basically none. I learned about the product from Jason Bell. A BASE canopy gets stuff like road tar, grease, oil ... etc on it a lot more often than a skydiving canopy. Nylon is tough, it takes quite a bit more than a simple solvent or general adhesive cleaner to cause weakening. If you're curious, take a scrap of it and test it out. Seal it in a container because it will evaporate pretty quickly. In a pinch, it can be used to clean socks. Also, warm soap and water can be used on ZP to spot clean. ______________________________________ I appreciate the info! I learned something. Lighter fluid is only mineral spirits. Varsol/naphtha are a bit 'hotter. A few years ago, I did exactly what you said, about sealing a piece of )-P in a jar full of naphtha. End result? Nothing! I left it for a week, like that. Let it air-dry. Thanks, again. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cresTfall 0 #15 December 9, 2005 Thanks to all of you that posted. I truly do appreciate it and I think it is good for discussion. I have spoken with a few manufacturers as well and their first recommendation was always diluted Woolite dabbed rather than scrubbed. Also, they are stating what at least one of you said "Oil itself will not threaten the structural integrity of nylon parachute fabric, dirty used oil can." Having an engineering degree, I assumed this much (which I know may be a mistake) as they are both generated from petroleum and are generally minimally reactive in their purest form. Thank you to all who confirmed that to me. Now, the harsh chemical byproducts present in oil used in any type of internal combustion system will understandably harm the fabric as these left-over compounds are far from stable and pretty reactive. The loft that relined this canopy did mention the possibility of sewing machine oil coming into contact with the fabric and "staining" it. I cannot say whether or not this is the case as I don't know that I noticed the stains right away. That doesn't necessarily mean that they were not there. Here are the three most common answers that I received from manufacturers regarding cleaning oil based stains from zero-porosity fabric: 1. Diluted Woolite 2. Mineral Spirits 3. Rubbing Alcohol I think that the theory is to start gentle and then try more harsh cleaners. Of course after the fabric has been cleaned, it needs to be rinsed thoroughly with clean water per the manufacturers (and probably common sense). I have used mineral spirits in the past to remove some sap from the topskin of a zero porosity canopy and it worked well. That was only a surface issue though, no "setting" of a stain. Nice to see a thread where people are sharing honest technical information. Thanks again all, I think this will solve(nt) my problem JeremyPremier Member IGPA 2009 IGPA Overall Champion WWTAD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyL 0 #16 December 12, 2005 Synthetic? or Natural? 5w 30? 10w 40? 80w 90? wipe it off as soon as possible, then call the manufacturer as soon as possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuvToFly 0 #17 December 14, 2005 If going the Naptha route, use very adequate ventilation as it is a known carcenogin - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #18 December 14, 2005 QuoteIf going the Naptha route, use very adequate ventilation as it is a known carcenogin - ____________________________________________ You bet! That, should be a 'given' when using any solvent or cleaning agent. It never hurts to point that out. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
