Too much arch?

[SkyPixie 0]

Newbie here. One of my instructors told me that I'm very flexible and my arch is good. A coach at the wind tunnel told me to arch LESS to get more "lift". Is there such a thing as too much arching? If there is, how does it affect my free fall? I'm just wondering if this is something I have to fix.

I'm still working on trying to maintain my heading because my legs have the tendency to be assymetrical (left extended, right folded). Now I'm not sure if I have to fix my arch too.

Don't worry about fear, worry about the addiction.

[D22369 0]

I had a student named Charles who moved to Atlanta *(Hi Gumby) , had one hell of an arch, he could do a backbend standing on the ground and put his hands between his feet... his fall range was huge - mine is big - I can go fast, I can go very slow, but he could both outfloat me and unless I transitioned to head down he could fall faster.

if you flatten out you fall slower, arch more, fall faster - its something that will come with practice.

one of the best things I have seen on this site was and I dont recall who wrote it or who it was attributed to.... *(paraphrasing) high time jumpers still make mistakes, they just fix them fast enough so you cant see them...

keep at it, you'll get there
Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[muff528 3]

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Newbie here. One of my instructors told me that I'm very flexible and my arch is good. A coach at the wind tunnel told me to arch LESS to get more "lift". Is there such a thing as too much arching? If there is, how does it affect my free fall? I'm just wondering if this is something I have to fix.

I'm still working on trying to maintain my heading because my legs have the tendency to be assymetrical (left extended, right folded). Now I'm not sure if I have to fix my arch too.

Sounds like you're arching just about right to fall with your instructor and too much in the tunnel. You are not going to have a body position which will fit all conditions. During any skydive you will constantly be varying (subconsciously) your fall rate throughout the freefall by varying your arch and other body position changes. For example, if you need to reach to take a grip you will learn to automatically adjust your arch and limb positions to compensate.

[JohnnyMarko 1]

When I was going through IAD, my instructors told me my arch was great, which helped me pass each jump without repeating it. They said it's better to arch too much in the beginning and learn to fall stable then once you get that down you can learn to control your fall rate.

[JohnRich 4]

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Is there such a thing as too much arching?

There is not one degree of arching that is "correct". The amount of arch you use depends upon your circumstances. If you're falling with heavy people you may need to arch a lot to keep up with them. If you're below a formation you need to arch less to float back up to them. So there is nothing wrong with being flexible enough to arch "too much". In fact, it's a good thing, because it gives you a range of speeds that will serve you well in many different circumstances. All you have to do is learn how to tune that arch to fit the circumstance.

[SkyPixie 0]

Thank you all!!!

Don't worry about fear, worry about the addiction.

[happythoughts 0]

It can be a problem if you are arching a lot to stay
relative with other jumpers.

Arching can get you to the same fallrate as other jumpers.
However, when you reach to take grips, it may cause you
to flatten out and then pop up.

If you watch other peoples videos, you can spot two types
of mistakes.
- People who have too fast a fallrate will be spread out to keep from going low.
- People going too slow will be arching to get beyond a
comfortable speed and their feet will be going side-to-side.
This will cause them to throw motion into
the formation.

[popsjumper 2]

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Newbie here. One of my instructors told me that I'm very flexible and my arch is good. A coach at the wind tunnel told me to arch LESS to get more "lift". Is there such a thing as too much arching? If there is, how does it affect my free fall? I'm just wondering if this is something I have to fix.

For freefall training, JohnnyMarko nailed it when he said, "...my instructors told me my arch was great, which helped me pass each jump without repeating it. They said it's better to arch too much in the beginning and learn to fall stable then once you get that down you can learn to control your fall rate."

For the tunnel, consistent stability comes first and that's best accomplished with the good arch. What surprises me is that the tunnel guys are addressing fall-rate before you have the legs down pat.

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I'm still working on trying to maintain my heading because my legs have the tendency to be assymetrical (left extended, right folded).

This should be your focus right now. Keep the good arch and concentrate on the legs.

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Now I'm not sure if I have to fix my arch too.

It's not a matter of "fixing" it. It's simply a matter of learning to adjust it in order to match fall-rates with others. As has been mentioned earlier, once you learn fall-rate adjustments (note that there are other ways to adjust fall-rate besides just the arch), you'll eventually be doing them subconciously according to the situation.

But again, keep the arch and focus on the legs...fall-rate adjustments will come later.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[fcajump 153]

I got pulled aside after my first freefall jump and told to stop arching (he figured if he told me that, maybe i'd arch "normal"). And as I'm already short/stocky and fast, he looked like he was in a head-down just to keep grips.

The "too much" will allow you to keep stable when your classmates are chipping and flailing. However, especially if you're built like me, too much will also mean you spend the next few hundred jumps learning to slow your fall rate and stay with other belly-fliers.

JW

ps - it is kinda cool to belly fly with the sit-fliers

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[JohnnyMarko 1]

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For freefall training, JohnnyMarko nailed it

YAY!!! See, I can do more than troll on here!

[yeyo 1]

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For freefall training, JohnnyMarko nailed

YAY!!! See, I can do more than troll on here!

Not that fast! It was your instructors who said that, and even Sangi may have said something productive....once....maybe .

To the OP, Im no expert but Im gona take the liberty to suggest something. Get on the floor in the freefall position and do 98324750 heel clicks. Maybe that helps with the legs issue.

HISPA #93
DS #419.5

[JohnnyMarko 1]

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Not that fast! It was your instructors who said that, and even Sangi may have said something productive....once....maybe Pirate.

DAMN! I was hoping no one would catch that...touchez

[DaVincisEnvy 0]

I'm a newbie, too, but it sounds like our experiences have been similar, so here's my $0.02 about what I've learned.

Tunnels and free fall are (obviously) different. What's an advantage during FF can sometimes be a bit of a hindrance at the wind tunnel.

I have the same sort of arch range it sounds like you do, and my "default" position is arched enough to fall with people 10-20 lbs heavier and several inches shorter than me. I was given really positive feedback about my body position during my AFF training, and the versatility has been a huge advantage when jumping with other people. But when I went to the tunnel, it took me a good 10-15 seconds just to get off of the floor (I had to both de-arch and get the tunnel operator to turn up the velocity a bit).

The less surface area you present to the wind (the greater your arch), the faster you'll fall in free fall and also the more air pressure is necessary to keep you afloat in the wind tunnel. So, next time you go to the tunnel, if you have trouble staying afloat, my suggestion would be to de-arch, and if that's still not sufficient, ask the tunnel operator to turn up the wind a bit.

[eUrNiCc 0]

As far as the Tunnel Instructors telling you to arch less so that you can get more lift, that's just because they don't want to turn the speed up too high before you have basic body control down pat.
If you're still on student status and your skydiving instructors are telling you to arch for all you're worth in AFF and on coach jumps, then a really flexible person might be able to do 140+ on their belly. If that person then goes to the tunnel for the first time, the instructors aren't going to want to turn the air up to 140 while they're wobbling around and learning the basics. If you're cruising along at 140 and you stiffen up , you'll "cork" and shoot up to the top of the tunnel or drive yourself into a wall & plaster yourself vertically on the glass, which becomes a huge problem.
The tunnel instructors are going to want to see you arch less and learn to fly at a slower, safer speed. Once you demonstrate good control at that speed, they'll gradually turn it up when they're confident you won't shoot to the top of the tunnel or pin yourself up against the wall.

Egad, A BASE life defiles a bad age.

[Harmless 0]

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For freefall training, JohnnyMarko nailed

YAY!!! See, I can do more than troll on here!

Not that fast! It was your instructors who said that, and even Sangi may have said something productive....once....maybe .

Funny enough I actually read a reply by Sangi today that made me think "He's actually saying something helpful" It was about first canopies or something

"Damn you Gravity, you win again"

[SkyPixie 0]

Thank you!
I will focus primarily on my legs when I go to the tunnel this week. I was told to do some toe-taps to force that symmetry. eUrNiCc was right about the tunnel. The person in the tunnel with me told me to de-arch because I couldn't get myself off the floor! So in order for me to practice leg symmetry and maintain heading, I have to get myself off the floor first by learning how to de-arch. So should I just tell them to increase the air up a little bit? I am still in my AFF, so I really don't want to change my arch if that seems the only thing I'm doing right!

Don't worry about fear, worry about the addiction.

[popsjumper 2]

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... So should I just tell them to increase the air up a little bit?

No. You should be doing what the tunnel instructors ask you to do.

It's quite easy to nail down the leg position while still on the net and THEN work on fall rate. However, your tunnel instructor may want to get you off the net first where he can hold you while working on your legs.

Toe taps. I still remember my AFF jump where they first told me to do a toe tap. I quickly brought my toes together...but missed...and wound up with crossed legs and an unintentional barrel roll.

I had the old, "WTF was THAT?" look on my face.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[erdnarob 1]

If you are that flexible you should be a girl or you are an exception.

Arching is a method to fall faster because the airflow while in free fall got less resistance from your body (your body is curved upward). By decreasing your arch or even counter arch (de arch), you make your body more flat or concave with respect to the relative wind and therefore you increase the resistance of the air then the aerodynamic force applied upward on the surface of your body increases making you falling slower.

Your capability to arch a lot is a very good feature since that will give you a larger margin of vertical speeds to adjust in free fall the rate of speed with other people. But you have to use that when necessary.

About your uneven position with your legs now.

In order to know where your legs are in free fall, a trick is to squeeze or clench your toes and fingers all together. That will tell you where your legs and arms are in a 3 D space and should allow you to correct it. Tell us when you will have solved your problem.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[SkyPixie 0]

Thanks! Looks like I got the leg problem fixed but I'll try that trick just in case comes up again. I tried the toe taps first but it didn't work because my legs automatically separated asymmetrically after the "tap". I think the couch exercises helped with muscle memory because the problem went away when I did my 2nd tunnel session.

Here's a video of my 3rd tunnel session showing my arch. I showed better stability and was able to do 180 & 360 turns and forward movements.
I get a bit unstable when I try to de-arch and I don't know what's up with the rocking!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH0R4hn1Lgc

Don't worry about fear, worry about the addiction.

[erdnarob 1]

I have seen your video. Not bad at all. The rocking of the beginning fades out which means you learned to relax. It is normal that when being flat or de arching your position is less stable since the airflow is more turbulent and unstable. But again you will learn to do micro corrections to get stable.
Congratulations. We can really see that you want to progress and that you take the right means to do so.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[SkyPixie 0]

Thank you!
I'm jumping this coming Saturday and if I pass the release dive, I'll go for the next level too. I'm not sure if I should push for a 3rd dive if I pass the first two. That's what I did last time. I did levels 2, 3 & 4 on the same day and I failed 4.

What's the advisable maximum # of jumps per day for an AFF student? That door monster does look less scary after the first dive of the day that's why I want to keep going whenever possible. I think I have a very good endurance for a girl but I also have the tendency not to recognize fatigue until I crash and wake up after 12 hours of sleep.

Don't worry about fear, worry about the addiction.

[burtonjm 0]

The most I did in a day as a student was 5, but those were coach jumps. I would say if you arrive at a decent time, you could comfortably do 3 jumps.

This shit, right here, is OK