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ngawang01

Step through Harness

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Step through or clips on, which one is a better harness?



I have B12 snaps on mine and I like it - of course I'm old and fat and probably not as flexible as some :)
I just smile as I watch people, even the young flexible ones, struggle into their rigs. B|
"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

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Is there any safety issues with the snaps on?



If you don't do them up you will fall out. I'm not aware of any other issues.

I'm not a rigger but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express :)
"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

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I just had my B-12s replaced. Bought the container used so the previous owner bought it with B-12s (even though it is a relatively new Wings - DOM 2003).

For me, it was another potential failure point that I didn't want to deal with. I've caught the springs sticking a couple times during gear checks - yes, it's a quick and easy fix, but it made me a little paranoid. The other thing that made me uncomfortable is people taking leg strap grips on hybrids; small risk, probably, but someone moving their hands around near the B-12s could potentially pop them.

Now we'll just have to see if I'm graceful and flexible enough to get in and out of the rig with its new configuration.:S
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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I just had my B-12s replaced. Bought the container used so the previous owner bought it with B-12s (even though it is a relatively new Wings - DOM 2003).

For me, it was another potential failure point that I didn't want to deal with. I've caught the springs sticking a couple times during gear checks - yes, it's a quick and easy fix, but it made me a little paranoid. The other thing that made me uncomfortable is people taking leg strap grips on hybrids; small risk, probably, but someone moving their hands around near the B-12s could potentially pop them.

Now we'll just have to see if I'm graceful and flexible enough to get in and out of the rig with its new configuration.:S



THere was an incident related to this. The snap came open from a hybrid grip. They are also very important to keep in good maintenence so they dont stick shut or so the spring doesn't fail.


Cheers,
Travis

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Step through or clips on, which one is a better harness?



I have B12 snaps on mine and I like it - of course I'm old and fat and probably not as flexible as some :)
I just smile as I watch people, even the young flexible ones, struggle into their rigs. B|



Have you ever seen J.C. Colclasure put his rig on? He's a big tall dude and his rig ain't exactly a big one either. He puts the rig on his shoulders first, then steps into the leg straps like it was nothing. phew!
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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I'm getting a used rig that has B-12s and I will definitely change it because I fear that docks, holds on exit or in mid collision may cause it to open.
I'm also afraid that while sitting on the AC it may come open and in an emergency exit I won't have time to double check it.
Inveniam Viam aut Faciam
I'm back biatches!

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I believe this is the historical post you want to answer (and ask) all these questions for you:

[URL]http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1503119[/url]



The comments in that linked thread are so like my experience, too. Got back into jumping after a long layoff, and all the b-12's were gone? I loved those, where'd they go? OK, I admit doing a hybrid may pose some risk, but other than that, I miss them. I particularly hate the standard thread-thru chest straps they have nowadays....but I've ranted about that before & I don't want to hijack this thread...

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I believe this is the historical post you want to answer (and ask) all these questions for you:

[URL]http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1503119[/url]



The comments in that linked thread are so like my experience, too. Got back into jumping after a long layoff, and all the b-12's were gone? I loved those, where'd they go? OK, I admit doing a hybrid may pose some risk, but other than that, I miss them. I particularly hate the standard thread-thru chest straps they have nowadays....but I've ranted about that before & I don't want to hijack this thread...


______________________________________

I had an old Vector, with 'Quick Eject Snaps'. They made me nervous so, I switched them to thread-through hardware!


Chuck

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B-12's and Quick Ejectors were designed for use on the leg straps. Friction adapters, hardware used in step troughs, were designed for use in adjusting back diagonals and other areas of the harness. They were all designed to be used on Type 13 webbing.

They started showing up on leg straps of sport gear for the same reason so many other “fad” items like soft housings and soft ripcords. They make production easier and they cost less. If you notice when B-12’s fell out of favor there was not a reduction in the cost of a rig, they started charging more for what was standard before. $6.00 for adapter, $16.75 for B-12.

I have been jumping them for almost 30 years, 20 years doing testing, and have yet to have a problem. But then again they are not cool.

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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Ian,
I am almost as old as you and almost as fat, but I much prefer step-ins.

I also insisted that all our new tandem student harnesses have step-ins. B-12 snaps slow me down when I dress students and I always worry about students dis-connecting them in the plane. That scenario may have only happened once (fortunately, the So-Cal TI caught that error on a pre-exit gear check), but I am too lazy to deal with it on a regular basis.

Even using older tandem harnesses - with B-12 snaps - I still leave the leg straps attached. I jut lay the leg straps on the floor and tell students: "Please put your right foot through, etc." Then I slide the harness over their shoulders and fasten the chest strap.
I am so lazy that I also use that technique when dressing S/L, IAD and PFF students.

There is also a problem with V-rings turning and distorting the sheet metal gates on B-12 snaps. That is why Strong Enterprises switched to deep V-rings and we also include "snapping" the gate on every pre-flight check, but - again - that is a problem that can be avoided by avoiding B-12 snaps.

In conclusion, I am so old and so fat that I don't even bother opening B-12 snaps on tandem instructor harnesses, preferring to set large, heavy, bulky tandem rigs on a table and step into the leg straps.

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My rig wasn't available with snaps if I wanted hip rings, so that made the choice for me.

However, having jumped with both, I prefer stepthrough AS LONG AS THE RIG FITS RIGHT. I can put on my Infinity pretty quickly, but the rental Dolphins before I got that were a pain.
cavete terrae.

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Just put it on your shoulders first, then let it down to your elbows. The legstraps are then so low that it is not hard.

I sometimes see people trying to get into their harness in the most difficult ways. :D
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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Just put it on your shoulders first, then let it down to your elbows. The legstraps are then so low that it is not hard.

I sometimes see people trying to get into their harness in the most difficult ways. :D



Ooh, thanks for the tip. With my new step-throughs I'm still trying to figure out the most graceful way (and I'm not one of those super-bendy people).

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I sometimes see people trying to get into their harness in the most difficult ways.

***

You're not old & fat & 6'4"!

ANY way without B-12's is difficult!;)





And I jump near water often...I like being able to get back OUT fast & easy.










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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I just jumped my rig with B-12 this weekend. I found them to be much easier to put on but somewhat uncomfortable.
I called RWS and it would cost $120 dollars to exchange and about 1-2 weeks to get it done (not the actual work for them to get it done and back)
I also asked about getting hip rings instead, which apparently is an easier job than switching the snaps because it requires a whole new harness and that costs $400.
Therefore, I'll be sticking with the B12s for a little while and maybe holding out to get hip rings.
Inveniam Viam aut Faciam
I'm back biatches!

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For what you'll gain with lower rings, I probably wouldn't bother doing it to this rig. Wait till the next one.

As far as it being easier to replace the harness: Except for the fact you're allowed to destroy the old harness removing it, it's not easier, just more expensive.

The readers digest condensed version of what the job entails is as follows.

Take an Xacto knife to the leg pad zig zag stitches. Remove and discard the old leg pads.

Unstitch the lower junction. Remove the top leg strap.

Remove the V Quick fit bar from the long portion.

Sew a new piece of type 12 (chafing strap)and a new piece of type 8 around the new regular thread through (MS 22040)

Insert the piece into the harness where the old piece was, and stitch it back in place.

Add the new leg pads and stitch them down... re-thread the leg straps ... box it up and ship it back.

120 bucks seems pretty fair since you get new leg pads.

400 bucks for a new harness is ok but still, you may want to just wait until you replace the rig altogether.

Good luck
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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