Unintentionally Offended

[jayrech 0]

So, Heres my beef per say. Today after a jump, a fellow jumper landed safely and with out harm aside from when they put there canopy down on the ground they found them selves with a hand full of rise unattached to any rig. Curiously we all looked in horror to find the three ring system had been hooked up slightly out of the norm. Now as I said before no one got hurt.
So we are gearing up for another jump later that evening, and I ( the "joker") Light heartedly asked if every ones three rings are hooked up properly. Now there were a few jumpers at the dz that hadnt been there when things had gone down earlier in the morning. So I explained to them the situation and what had happen. The whole time in doing so I kept sure I didn't pin any blame on any party involved with any thing to keep it fair. Shortly after I finished the story with another fellow jumper, The DZO, in front of the group, came up to me and kindly told me how much of an idiot I was for saying such things and that I should watch my mouth because it is the kind of things that would get me fired. He also brought up how I had personally packed another fellow jumper a step through twice, which he had "caught on tape" ten days apart the year before and had not said any thing about it to any one, once again stating how much of an "idiot" I was for bringing any thing like this up in a group.
I guess my "beef" is, since when has our sport decided that learning from others mistakes is something that should be done behind closed doors and who ever gave any one the right to cut down another jumper for bringing to light the possibilities for errors in our sport? Am I in the wrong?
If any one doesn't feel like putting up a response to this on the forum and would rather discus this in private please let me know through PM
I have taken my details off my account to keep the dzo and DZ respectfully secret

D.S 174.2

Be careful what you say. Some one might take it the right way.

[rnicks 0]

Although I understand your beef from a safety standpoint, unless said jumper was there when you were outing him (probably the interpretation the DSO was given) you were in the wrong. Sounds like it was gossip.

[Harmless 0]

I'm more interested in hearing about how the 3ring was mis-rigged?

"Damn you Gravity, you win again"

[JohnRich 4]

Reading between the lines...

Were YOU the one that hooked up the 3-rings incorrectly?

If so, then it's extremely poor taste to joke about it. Such a mistake could kill someone. It's not a joking matter.

[jayrech 0]

The 3 ring routing was a simple mistake that was and could have been missed by any one, All that had happen was the cutaway cable was routed through the "shoe lace" out side of the terminal end on the cutaway housing, When the jumper laid down the canopy the 3 ring released and fell away from their harness leaving them with a handfull of riser, As for the person being around when I was talking with the other jumpers about what had happen, Yes they where there, but once again, I used no names in the situation as who was to blame, But I can understand their attitude towards me in the case that they probably did feel called out. None the less, I feel this was a lucky situation and no one was injured and I thought at the time it was a great learning experience. I guess I was wrong. I wont be making that mistake around the DZO as my jumping schedule will be changed to a different time and place and my employment will come from a different walk of life

D.S 174.2

Be careful what you say. Some one might take it the right way.

[jayrech 0]

As far as I know I had no hand in rigging up the 3 ring, and yes that would and could have been a horrible situation. My joking tone was more of a hesitant nervous tone to get the questions asked to shed light on how easily a serious problem can be over looked

D.S 174.2

Be careful what you say. Some one might take it the right way.

[kkeenan 13]

Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.

Do the wingsuiters get offended if you ask whether their legstraps are connected ? Do the freefliers get bothered when you ask if their chest straps are hooked up ? Well, OK, sometimes they do. But people have died from these very things. I'll take annoyance over bloody, crushing, violent death any day.

I, also, would like to know the details about the 3-ring mis-rigging. Just because "nobody was injured", doesn't mean there is not a problem with understanding and correctly operating the gear at your DZ.

Kevin Keenan
Titusville FL

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[jayrech 0]

the routing of the 3 ring was explained three posts up

D.S 174.2

Be careful what you say. Some one might take it the right way.

[jtnesbitt 0]

I dont get what the problem is....at my DZ we hear it all the time "Make sure you (insert safety action here) as (insert non-injury incident here) happened earlier today/last week/etc"

I suppose it depends on the DZ though. We have very few skygods and are very much an instructional DZ where everyone looks out for everyone else.

The second we stop learning from others mistakes and stop looking out for one another's safety is the second the sport stops evolving.

"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

the cutaway cable was routed through the "shoe lace" out side of the terminal end on the cutaway housing, When the jumper laid down the canopy the 3 ring released and fell away from their harness leaving them with a handful of riser,

Maybe I'm missing something...

If the riser came off, how do you know the loop which is attached to the riser was misrouted?

Was the other side done the way you described?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[jayrech 0]

yup, the other side was routed the same, and with the set up unless the jumper had miraculously hooked a single cut away cable and release that side only while laying the canopy down to be packed, I dont see how else it could have "fell" apart. The physical 3 ring was in right order, big,medium, small routed through only one ring at a time, the "shoe lace" wasnt routed through the terminal end at the end of the cutaway housing and the flexibility of the hard housing, is what my guess, is the result of this

D.S 174.2

Be careful what you say. Some one might take it the right way.

[MajorDad 0]

I'll bite....

Was this on student gear or on experienced gear?

Blue Ones,

Major Dad
CSPA D-579

[jayrech 0]

It was on experienced gear, the container was a mirage g4. I don't want this Discussion to be thought of as a DZ/DZO slashing discussion, I just wanted to know how much in the wrong I was for taking the actions I did

D.S 174.2

Be careful what you say. Some one might take it the right way.

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

yup, the other side was routed the same, and with the set up unless the jumper had miraculously hooked a single cut away cable and release that side only while laying the canopy down to be packed, I dint see how else it could have "fell" apart. The physical 3 ring was in right order, big,medium, small routed through only one ring at a time, the "shoe lace" wasn't routed through the terminal end at the end of the cutaway housing and the flexibility of the hard housing, is what my guess, is the result of this

That being the case it sounds like you got hosed for bringing it up.

The only thing I can offer is maybe next time you see something like that, take your concerns directly to the DZO and tell them it doesn't look right to YOU.

People just don't like their mistakes being put under a spotlight...thankfully it was caught then & not during a 'post incident' investigation.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[riggerpaul 1]

Quote

The 3 ring routing was a simple mistake that was and could have been missed by any one, All that had happen was the cutaway cable was routed through the "shoe lace" out side of the terminal end on the cutaway housing, When the jumper laid down the canopy the 3 ring released and fell away from their harness leaving them with a handfull of riser, As for the person being around when I was talking with the other jumpers about what had happen, Yes they where there, but once again, I used no names in the situation as who was to blame, But I can understand their attitude towards me in the case that they probably did feel called out. None the less, I feel this was a lucky situation and no one was injured and I thought at the time it was a great learning experience. I guess I was wrong. I wont be making that mistake around the DZO as my jumping schedule will be changed to a different time and place and my employment will come from a different walk of life

I am not happy that you think that this was "a simple mistake that could have been missed by anyone".

Even a quick gear check should reveal this error.

ANY gear check I do would have found it.

So what you are really saying is that someone who did not take the care to ensure that the rig was assembled correctly, put the rig on and made a jump.

That's a formula for disaster, and should not be passed off as lightly as you are.

As with so many disasters, a series of errors were made, each building on the one before. Eliminating any one would have broken the chain. but, one way or another, complacency ruled, and the rig got into the air.

If the rig has an RSL, and the RSL riser had disconnected during the jump, this could easily have been a fatality to report, involving a main/reserve entanglement.

Don't take it lightly.

[jayrech 0]

Thats what I am starting to think as well, The situation was made light to the entire room at the time it was noticed, I just brought it up before the second load of the day went up

D.S 174.2

Be careful what you say. Some one might take it the right way.

[jayrech 0]

Thanks for putting this into the perspective it should have been in when it was originally dealt with. I understand the how easy it could have been caught and how serious it could have been and I do appreciate what your saying.

D.S 174.2

Be careful what you say. Some one might take it the right way.

[NovaTTT 1]

Quote

The 3 ring routing was a simple mistake that was and could have been missed by any one, All that had happen was the cutaway cable was routed through the "shoe lace" out side of the terminal end on the cutaway housing,

I don't know who you're jumping with, but if you think that's not glaringly obvious, you're not doing proper or good gear checks.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[jayrech 0]

point taken, but as said before I didnt do the gear check

D.S 174.2

Be careful what you say. Some one might take it the right way.

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

That's what I am starting to think as well, The situation was made light to the entire room at the time it was noticed, I just brought it up before the second load of the day went up

Do you think it's an isolated occurrence by an 'experienced' jumper who, not understanding how his gear works put it together wrong?

What I'm getting at is...

If said jumper did that rigging himself, he doesn't know how to do it right. If he gear checks himself, it would go unnoticed...as possibly it had for who knows how many jumps.

Saying 'check your 3 rings' would be of little help in that instance since said jumper thinks it's right...I'm not saying YOU did anything wrong according to your facts of the story, but simply gear checking another jumper while waiting would have gotten the point across better and probably not ruffle any feathers.

Doing gear checks on each other, is one way of catching those kinds of mistakes.




Edited to add: I see by the above responses you get the point...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Jumpah 0]

I've seen it both ways...people joking about a narrowly averted disaster on the next load, and people getting angry when a joke was made about the whole thing.

Delivery and timing...sounds like you bombed on stage.

Consider talking to the DZO when things are quiet and they've got some time, and maybe you'll get more info on why he was so upset at that moment. A comment that may be funny to seasoned skydivers could be horrifying to an AFF level 1.

[jayrech 0]

I agree, it sure is starting to seem like my timing of the whole situation was a choke on stage, I should have kept my mouth shut, as for speaking with the dzo about the situation, thats going to be this afternoon

D.S 174.2

Be careful what you say. Some one might take it the right way.

[jayrech 0]

the rigging was done by a different jumper, the jumper who did the rigging just so happened to have been in the room when I brought it up, as for the gear checks and knowledge of how the gear works I have no doubt he knows the functions of the gear, I think it was a case of complacency

D.S 174.2

Be careful what you say. Some one might take it the right way.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

It generally takes a tough skinned individual to run a DZ. At least, that's been my experience.
That being said, it would seem as if this DZO was responding to this situation rather harshly. Is it possible that you and he/she have a heated history? If that's the case, you may want to sit down privately and have a talk. You both may benefit from a conversation, especially now, since you've just ousted him/her here in the forums... unwillingly or not.

Good luck.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[d123 1]

Is the DZO the kind of person who wants to be in control?
If yes maybe he's offended that he's the last one to know and pointed a sharp tooth at you. He only talk/bark but didn't take no actions. You've should presented this information directly to him and not allow that other people or eavesdropping takes it to him.
If no ... I can't relate

Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls!