Uses for an Expired Cypress?

[phoenixlpr 0]

I was thinking about the same thing :).

or sell it to France.

I was told they are having a mandatory AAD rule. So an expired AAD is better than a fake or wooden one.

[rbanfield 0]

Note that an AAD needs only an electronic altimeter and a timer to determine both current altitude and vertical descent speed (change in altitude over time).

If the electronic altimeter(s) and/or timer inside the AAD fail in such a way that the device will not go off, then keeping an AAD past its manufacturer specified lifetime is an acceptable risk.

If the electonic altimeter(s) and/or timer inside the AAD fail in such a way that it goes apeshit and starts sending readings all across the board, I would imagine the possibility that the algorithm for deployment can be tricked by the faulty sensor. Reserve deployment inside of the plane is then a possibility.

It is a possibility that the reason the Cypres limit is 12 years is because of exponentially increasing likelihoods of failure at 13 or 14 years. They don't need to let us know that or the mode of failure because they tell us to pitch it after 12.

Of course, it is also a possibility that they do it just to make more $$$.

[Zenister 0]

Well i'm likely getting a Vigil instead and the 80$ isnt that meaningful a return.. i'd get more entertainment value out of having a 'new toy' to experiment with..

i'll likely disassemble it at some point just to check the assembly and manufacturing standards as well as see what i can learn from it.. have to see if i can rig a way to pull out its firmware to snoop around it too...

i really like the idea of a 'self deploying' freefall toy, but i'm not sure how often i'd get to play with it even at Eloy with all their 'additional real estate..

however i also like the idea of donating it to someone in a less restrictive country, there will likely be more than a few about for the holiday boogie and as long as they are aware they are jumping an 'expired' piece of equipment the risk is entirely up to the user IMO..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[thepollster 0]

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but if a jumper who would have died is saved by a 12+ year cypres snipnot gonna give them sh.t for using a "retired" cypres insted of no cypres at all

And if the jumper is killed by a expired cypres deploying at the wrong time, are you going to explain to the family of the dead jumper that you thought it would be fine to use an expired piece of electronics?

[Kris 0]

Expired Cypres' make for great keychains!

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[Kimblair13 0]

That's awesome. I'll have to remember that in 4 years.

[samhussey 0]

Put it in a lunchbox with some plasticene and carry it wherever you go. See how long it takes you to get arrested.

[Praetorian 1]

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but if a jumper who would have died is saved by a 12+ year cypres snipnot gonna give them sh.t for using a "retired" cypres insted of no cypres at all

And if the jumper is killed by a expired cypres deploying at the wrong time, are you going to explain to the family of the dead jumper that you thought it would be fine to use an expired piece of electronics?

No, I'm gonna tell the family the jumper knew it was out of date and made his/her call. I thought it would be fine but like every jump that jumper made his/her own call. would you feel responsible if a jumper got hurt trying an exit you described? jumping from a novel plane you recomended? got hurt jumping a round reserve you sold them because you would not use it anymore but it was all they could afford? now bet me which is more likely a cypres THAT BOOTS AND COUNTS TO Zero is more likely to:
A do nothing
B fire when needed
C fire at an inapproprate time
I'd put my money on B or A over C

Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad
judgment.

[brianfry713 0]

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So an expired AAD is better than a fake or wooden one.

Or a sticker or printout of an AAD in the pouch.

BASE 1224, Senior Parachute Rigger, CPL ASEL IA, AGI, IGI
USPA Coach & UPT Tandem Instructor, PRO, Altimaster Field Support Representative

[Mike111 0]

Sorry for is probably a stupid question, but what is the difference between a cypres 1 or 2?

ive seen both and the only thing i immediately noticed was the figures - when you switch it on cyrpes 1 counted down in thousands and number 2 in single figures representing thousands.

Is cypres 2 the more efficent one?

Thanks,

Mike

[brianfry713 0]

http://www.cypres-2.com/

The think the Cypres 1 was no longer made after May 13, 2003. The principle is the same, with a few upgrades.

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CYPRES 2 offers numerous additional features and attributes including:

* unit is water-resistant for 15 minutes at a depth of 15 feet (5 meters) in fresh and salt water

* power supply of CYPRES 2 is maintenance-free for the user. There is no need to observe a replacement date, record the number of jumps made, monitor the voltage during self-test, purchase a battery, or have a rigger open or repack the reserve for this reason

* unit serial number accessible from the display anytime you want to see it

* next maintenance due date accessible from the display anytime you want to see it

* reminds you when the maintenance date comes near

* smaller and lighter

* robust, rigger friendly case, with rounded corners and edges

* extended maintenance window: +/- 6 months from month of manufacture, no down-time during the busy part of the year regardless of month of manufacture

Yes it counts down quicker, but the normal use is the same. I don't know if I'd call that more efficent except for the fact you don't have to wait as long to see if it's at "0" correctly. Also you never have to replace the battery, just send it in every 4 years.

BASE 1224, Senior Parachute Rigger, CPL ASEL IA, AGI, IGI
USPA Coach & UPT Tandem Instructor, PRO, Altimaster Field Support Representative

[Mike111 0]

Ahh right thanks for the info.

Much appreciated

[rbanfield 0]

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I'd put my money on B or A over C

But would you put everyone on the plane's life on B or A over C?

I once had a car who's doors decided to lock for no apparent reason whatsoever. It would lock at seemingly random times, no matter if the car was stationary, on for a long time, etc. This was (to my knowledge) before the days of automatically locking doors after a few minutes of travel. When told, "the power door locks don't work" I would bet my money that pressing the button did nothing over randomly locking the doors.

The method of failure is unspecified... We don't know shit about it...

Perhaps, just like my old car, moisture can creep in a rotted seal after 12 years. Bottomline, your ability to wager money stops when it risks the life of those around you.

[ladyskydiver 0]

To those that have suggested selling it to another jumper, yikes! I can understand you being willing to put your life on the line as to whether or not the Cypres will continue to work after it's 12 years (and as an ex-computer geek, I suspect it will) but not anyone else's that might be affected - i.e. others on your plane load (pilot/jumpers/observers). To knowingly sell an expired product to someone else "just so that they've got it" is not something that I could see or understand. I would feel like total shit if I sold someone an expired Cypres and for whatever reason it didn't work and either a) resulted in a jumper being killed (whether device dependent or someone who for whatever reason, i.e. unconscious or broken, couldn't pull and needed a Cypres) or b) resulted in a plane full of jumpers and pilot being killed. Money just isn't worth it - to me.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[tdog 0]

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To those that have suggested selling it to another jumper, yikes! I can understand you being willing to put your life on the line as to whether or not the Cypres will continue to work after it's 12 years (and as an ex-computer geek, I suspect it will) but not anyone else's that might be affected - i.e. others on your plane load (pilot/jumpers/observers). To knowingly sell an expired product to someone else "just so that they've got it" is not something that I could see or understand. I would feel like total shit if I sold someone an expired Cypres and for whatever reason it didn't work and either a) resulted in a jumper being killed (whether device dependent or someone who for whatever reason, i.e. unconscious or broken, couldn't pull and needed a Cypres) or b) resulted in a plane full of jumpers and pilot being killed. Money just isn't worth it - to me.

You know at first, I thought, "why not give it to someone who needs it in a foreign country where $$$ is a huge issue and without the gift, they probably would not have it...

Is an expired cypres safer than some of the more "historic" systems, or no cypres at all???

This actually reminds me of a ethical problem I had with some of my friends who did medical mission trips to Mexico... One day I came home and found my former roommate stashed, on behalf of his employer, three pallet loads of expired saline IV bags in the basement... I asked why? He said they would be shipped to Mexico in 9 months for the medical trip, that it was expired so it could NOT be stored at the hospital, so it had to be stored off site... He also had millions of dollars of medical supplies from lenses for eyes to things for hearts, all expired.

American doctors would use this stuff eventually on the mission trips.

I asked him, "don't you have a problem giving this stuff to the people who need it, when it is expired. Aren't you just using it to make yourself feel better by doing record amounts of cases instead of actually providing top notch medical care to the locals of XXXXX Mexico?"

His response was, "The American Medical system is very strict on expiration, and the doctors will be the ones determining if the supplies are still worthy of being used before they are used in Mexico. But, when a patient is on a table, completely blind, or suffering from something else, and the choice is to use expired products or not perform the surgery at all, the patients and doctors all agree that somewhat cured, by maybe using the wrong correction factor eye lens, is better than being completely blind. Sure there are more risks with expired products, but not so much that we have not been able to help thousands of people with similar complication rates to what we experience at home. The data has shown that the use of expired products has been worth while when the other option is nothing at all."

So, I guess all I am saying is, to some, an expired cypres might be better than the alternative... But I would never sell an expired cypres, and if I gave it away, I would fully disclose it's condition....

[mjosparky 3]

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and the doctors will be the ones determining if the supplies are still worthy of being used before they are used in Mexico

And who is quified to make that determination on a cypres? The average skydiver? In some cases the patient would surely die if the expired medical products were not used. A skydiver will not surely die if he/she does not used an expired cypres. But they might die if they do use it. See the difference?

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mikeat10500 9]

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Is there a viable market for sell it to someone in a country where they don't have to follow the 12 year limit/mfg instructions, such as Russia, South America?

Maybe it is not feasible.

What about Canada? You know, big cold country north of North Dakota.

-----------------------------------
Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.

[sundevil777 93]

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Is there a viable market for sell it to someone in a country where they don't have to follow the 12 year limit/mfg instructions, such as Russia, South America?

Maybe it is not feasible.

What about Canada? You know, big cold country north of North Dakota.

I figured their riggers were required to follow mfg instructions.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[mikeat10500 9]

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Is there a viable market for sell it to someone in a country where they don't have to follow the 12 year limit/mfg instructions, such as Russia, South America?

Maybe it is not feasible.

What about Canada? You know, big cold country north of North Dakota.

I figured their riggers were required to follow mfg instructions.

There is no FAA in Canada...MOT don't do parachutes or mountain bikes.

-----------------------------------
Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.

[BrianM 1]

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I figured their riggers were required to follow mfg instructions.

There is no FAA in Canada...MOT don't do parachutes or mountain bikes.

As a Canadian rigger, I'm not required by law to follow the manufacturer's instructions, but I am required to do so by the issuer of my rigging licence (CSPA). Failure to do so could result in loosing my rigging licence, as well as legal liability in the event of an accident.

I won't pack a rig with an expired Cypres in it, and I don't think many other Canadian riggers would either.

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[Harksaw 0]

Here's a fun idea: next time they're doing a car jump in Arizona, get an old, no longer usable reserve and container. Pack the unjumpable (for a human) reserve with your outdated cypres. Hook it up to the car, somehow. At 750 feet, see what fails first!

__________________________________________________
I started skydiving for the money and the chicks. Oh, wait.

[MB38 0]

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Here's a fun idea: next time they're doing a car jump in Arizona, get an old, no longer usable reserve and container. Pack the unjumpable (for a human) reserve with your outdated cypres. Hook it up to the car, somehow. At 750 feet, see what fails first!

Probably the canopy wingloaded at 15:1.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[hobie331 0]

Last month at a small boogie in KS we loaded an old rig with one and dropped it in the middle of nowhere from 2K and watched it fire and deploy. The Cyprus was 4 months out of date. Not only was it educational, but fun as well. It basically has no worth other than a paper weight, so if it an be done safely, why not see how beneficial an AAD can bee.

It's a gift, I don't try to explain it.

[hobie331 0]

Or like Phoenixlpr suggests. Sell it France. Although thay seem to like US hospitality better when it's given to then free of charge.

It's a gift, I don't try to explain it.

[billvon 2,380]

>To knowingly sell an expired product to someone else "just so that
>they've got it" is not something that I could see or understand.

There are people in other parts of the world who have very little money and are doing whatever they can to stay in the air. After seeing what some of these people jump, a 14 year old cypres would be far and away the safest thing on their rig.

While I wouldn't sell a used cypres to anyone, I might well give one away to a jumper who had a use for it and understood the risks he or she was taking by jumping with it.