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No_Phear

What progression method did you use to become a skydiver

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In any case, I personally choose AFF first because
A) I didn't want to waste money on a Tandem jump, and it seemed a little gay to me, having some dude strapped on my backside :D,


You do realize you'll be holding hands with/docking on dudes right? :D:D:D. Wait 'til you get some swoop pants/capri's.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

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You do realize you'll be holding hands with/docking on dudes right? :D:D:D. Wait 'til you get some swoop pants/capri's.



I'm don't hold hands... I use grips yes, and grab a wrist or two.. I wouldn't even mind holding hands... it's the whole nut-to-butt I don't care for:ph34r::ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:
Tact is not my specialty.....

Dirty Sanchez #453

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I'm a little nuts, and really don't fear a thing,




I know im not even newbie status in the sport but i have head it before...isnt having no fear a bad thing for this sport?
"Age has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge, learning, respect, attitude, or personality." -yardhippie
"Fight the air, and the air will kick your ass!!! "-Specialkaye

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I'm a little nuts, and really don't fear a thing,


I know im not even newbie status in the sport but i have head it before...isnt having no fear a bad thing for this sport?



Well have you really 'head' it before? lol

Anyway, I think that statement confuses fear with respect. Respect for gear, for gravity, for planes, etc. etc.

I have always been of the opinion that there is no need to fear something, if you respect it.
Tact is not my specialty.....

Dirty Sanchez #453

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"C) I'm a little nuts, and really don't fear a thing, so I knew skydiving would be a blast... even if it killed me, so I went AFF."


i think its too easy to assume that fear or lack of it has anything to do with a person choosing to learn by AFF or S/L. also some DZ's don't give the option of doing either one without first doing a tandem. and again, there's the money issue. some people just want to get their license as soon as possible, without saving or taking a loan, so they go with S/L.

there are people who learned by S/L and also people who did a tandem first and went onto either AFF or S/L, who are in fact much more fearless than those who went straight to AFF.

for one thing, the whole culture of "no fear" among frat boys and the like is a strong enough form of peer pressure to make people do things they might not have done if they knew that their buddies or their girlfriend would never find out. keeping up the fearless image looks like a full time job in some cases.

i would not say i'm totally without fear, and i definitely wouldn't call myself nuts, but so far, i have only felt peacefull at all times when skydiving, even when making my first off landing due to a bad spot by the pilot in a sturdy high altitude wind. and yet i was required to do a tandem before i got my license at the dz where i learned on S/L. here's the kicker though, the whole thing cost me less than $1400. in my case, none of it has anything to do with fear or a lack thereof.

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This isn't directed at anyone in particular.
You know why AFF was invented right? Turbines don't make money climbing to 4,000 feet, circling the airport to drop off each static line/IAD, climbing to 6,000 feet to drop off a 10 second delay, and then climbing to 12,000 feet for whatever is left. They make money climbing directly up and down.
Static line/IAD is good for 182 dz's because they're going to use less fuel only climbing to 4,000 feet. If you have a good radio operator you can have several students in the air at a time, to cut down the fuel also.
I like static line/IAD because it puts more emphasis on canopy flight.
"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

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I like static line/IAD because it puts more emphasis on canopy flight.



+1

I went static line also for a very simple reason. Learn to land on mother earth safely, in one piece, before worrying about what I could do in the sky.

Anybody can hit the ground. Static line places emphasis on doing it well, first.
It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

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The DZ where I started (Palm Springs) went a different way than any of your posted choices.

Started tandem progression, then static line. They didn't have AFF at their DZ. I haven't met any other DZ's who do this progression, but it worked just fine. Gotta say, though, that after getting full altitude on the tandems, the S/L seemed pretty close to the ground!

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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static line really is a kind of training wheels, but that doesn't mean people who choose AFF are necessarily more confident.



That's interesting...I have always taught my AFF students that their AFFI's are their 'training wheels' in the sky. We help to keep them steady while they learn to fly. Once they've proved they can hold their own the training wheels come off.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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This isn't directed at anyone in particular.
You know why AFF was invented right? Turbines don't make money climbing to 4,000 feet

AFF was developed in the late 70's and early 80's, when turbines were still very rare at the DZ. Most of us were still jumping C-182's, Twin Beeches, and DC-3's. Perris use to jump scores of FJC static liners out of their DC-3's. Most DZ's today still have a C-182 that would serve a S/L FJC quite nicely.

During that time, most DZ's still used military surplus main canopies and front mounted round reserves. In fact, the requirement in AFF of a back mounted reserve and and Paracommander or better main canopy for the student sent most of us shopping for a suitable student rig.

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for one thing, the whole culture of "no fear" among frat boys and the like is a strong enough form of peer pressure to make people do things they might not have done if they knew that their buddies or their girlfriend would never find out. keeping up the fearless image looks like a full time job in some cases.


While this is true, I had to flash back to our method of putting students (tandems, too) out the door. It's amazing how quickly the 'he-man' types go wimpy in the plane. :D The harder they beat their chest on the ground the more they seem to cower in the plane once the door slides open!

We combat this change of posture by putting the girls out the door first! The guy just can't back out after seeing his woman exit before him! :ph34r:

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even when making my first off landing due to a bad spot by the pilot in a sturdy high altitude wind.



Hopefully they've taught you that it's not the pilot's job to spot. A good pilot may get you over your target but it's the skydiver's job to look out the door, know the winds aloft (velocity -and- direction--all the way down to the ground) and make adjustments.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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Perris use to jump scores of FJC static liners out of their DC-3's.



I've heard stories of those sunset loads! The up jumpers would pull up a chair, pop open a beer, and watch the carnage exit and land. Must have been a hoot! Have any pictures?

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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Hopefully they've taught you that it's not the pilot's job to spot. A good pilot may get you over your target but it's the skydiver's job to look out the door, know the winds aloft (velocity -and- direction--all the way down to the ground) and make adjustments.

At some DZ's, it's "Green light, open the door, glance down to make sure you're not over an active volcano, GO!" Anyone attempting to spot or delay in the door will hear nothing but "GO GO GO!" in response to a request for 20 right.:P

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Hopefully they've taught you that it's not the pilot's job to spot. A good pilot may get you over your target but it's the skydiver's job to look out the door, know the winds aloft (velocity -and- direction--all the way down to the ground) and make adjustments.

At some DZ's, it's "Green light, open the door, glance down to make sure you're not over an active volcano, GO!" Anyone attempting to spot or delay in the door will hear nothing but "GO GO GO!" in response to a request for 20 right.:P


Then that's the time you sit down with the DZO and pilot and work things out. If the safety of their clients (read: skydivers) are in jeopardy then there's something wrong there.

Where I learned (again, Palm Springs) the wind direction and velocity would vary from hour to hour through the day. Even layer to layer on the way down! Occasionally we'd have to exit a few miles upwind to to over our LZ by pull-time. Of course, this was on a 182 DZ where the pilot communicated directly with us in the plane. :^)

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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i have to admit my off landing was due mostly to my own inexperience as a canopy pilot. one of the instructors at the DZ later taught me how i could have got back to the landing area by doing a pull up on my front risers and curling myself into a cannonball.

the plane was a 182 (no green light). i did know beforehand that spotting myself was ultimately my own responsibility. i took spotting a lot more seriously after that (this was my fifteenth jump).

as to the chest beating referred to in earlier post, that was exactly the experience i had on my first jump. the DZ i learned at by S/L required us to have at least one tandem before hand to make sure we wouldn't totally freak out. when i went to take my tandem, there were three frat looking guys, one of them was taking a tandem. the otheres had apparently already tried one. they were shouting and posturing and getting him all excited. once we got in the plane and his buddies were gone, his whole demeanor changed. he was swallowing a lot and his eyes were darting all over the place.

as i watched him go out the door, he looked like he was about to shrivel up into his own arsehole. i only hesitated at the door because i wanted the moment to last longer, to savor it, my first time jumping out of a plane. i just tried not to think about the dude who was strapped to my back!

when we reached the landing area, the frat guy was screaming, cussing and beating his chest with his buddies like he was some kind of hero. i just looked peacefully back up at the sky from which i'd fallen, with the same expression i'd had on the way up and on the way down, a simple smile.

i don't want to be fearless in order to be a bad ass. i just like to be able to control my fear so i can enjoy myself.

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i have to admit my off landing was due mostly to my own inexperience as a canopy pilot.



Glad to read your taking responsibility for the error, instead of pinning it on the pilot like previously stated. :)
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one of the instructors at the DZ later taught me how i could have got back to the landing area by doing a pull up on my front risers and curling myself into a cannonball.



Good on you for gleaning advice from your instructors. Might also want to ask them when -rear- risers are preferable to front riser pulling to get back from a long spot.:)
We've all had off DZ landings we've learned from. One of mine was an intentional one (the whole plane agreed to the off DZ exit to get the jump, rather than ride the plane down due to the clouds directly over the DZ. We opted for the hole to the west). Several of us picked a nice grassy school yard to land in. Nice landing. Now....how do you scale the fence (with barbed wire on top) since it's the weekend and all the gates are locked? :D

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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We've all had off DZ landings we've learned from.



God is that true. A few off landings prepare you for the one that could go horribly wrong.
That one for me was about 1.5 miles off DZ, in a birdman suit, with a very hard pull. Yes, it was certainly my fault. I spotted myself for a perfect flight in the suit, then got a very dirty flight (low fall rate, but also a very low forward speed.) 2 tries, silver. a PD126R doesn't give you ANY time to sit back and think where your landing opportunities are. You find one, NOW, and you have but one chance to hit it. Mine was cross/down wind, in a small front yard, between a porch and a road with power lines. To turn upwind would have cost valuable altitude, and found me in heavy trees. Went back that night with beer and found both the handle and the freebag.

I plan on getting a picture of that yard some day, just as a reminder to myself.
It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

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AFF was developed in the late 70's and early 80's, when turbines were still very rare at the DZ. Most of us were still jumping C-182's, Twin Beeches, and DC-3's. Perris use to jump scores of FJC static liners out of their DC-3's. Most DZ's today still have a C-182 that would serve a S/L FJC quite nicely.

During that time, most DZ's still used military surplus main canopies and front mounted round reserves. In fact, the requirement in AFF of a back mounted reserve and and Paracommander or better main canopy for the student sent most of us shopping for a suitable student rig.



Thanks John, I hadn't heard that, I was going by what my DZO told us. I assume since they were jumping rounds, they were dumping multiple students out on each pass, like in the old war movies. How many students can you drop on one pass, and still have most of them land on the dz? When you switched to squares did you still drop staticlines from the DC-3's?
"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

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is it possible for a pilot lose his or her license for allowing you to jump through that hole to the west, knowing you wouldn't be able to make it to the landing area?



Good question. In our case, no. In other cases, where there may be restricted areas....might want to ask first.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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When you switched to squares did you still drop staticlines from the DC-3's?

I never worked at Perris, I've only been down for boogies in the late 70's and early 80's and watched there. With rounds, we never used ground control. It was "At about 500 feet, face into the wind, get in your PLF position, and stare at the horizon until you hit." There was no flaring, and if the spot was good, the student couldn't really fly the canopy far enough to get into too much trouble. When we started jumping squares, it became one per pass, with radio or ground arrow to guide them, radio or hand signals for landing control. Definitely an improvement in landings, because the old rounds had an injury rate of 5-10% on the first jump. But it certainly burned more avgas and upped the labor costs on each student jump when we switched to square canopies.

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