Grounding for safety issues - have you ever seen one and what was the reason?

[timmyfitz 0]

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>>There was this guy who intentionally cut away a perfectly good canopy<<

>>>He died on a BASE jump with in the year of the incident.<<


Yes, I'm not really saying what I think of your silly assumptions. . .

I did not see any assumption, just two stated facts. If you read this part you may not have jumped to that conclusion.

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I don’t remember any further problem he gave while skydiving since his grounding.

[Squeak 17]

One of the DZOs Swooped some spectators who were there for a memorial,
The CI grounded him for 10 days. Having a CI who is NOT the DZO has it's advantages

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[beowulf 1]

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>>There was this guy who intentionally cut away a perfectly good canopy
>>>He died on a BASE jump with in the year of the incident.
A lot of people have chopped good canopies for laughs. It's called doing a Funaway . . .

Our good friend at Perris, Jerry McCauley, CRW Dog, U.S. Navy S.E.A.L., father, and husband used to do funaways all the time. About a month after the last time I saw him do a funaway he was killed in Iraq.

I always wondered why Jerry died and now, thanks to you, I know.

I also guess the 147 people who died B.A.S.E. jumping since 1981 deserved it for "some reason" too!

Yes, I'm not really saying what I think of your silly assumptions. . .

http://www.specialforcesroh.com/browse.php?mode=viewiaward&awardid=9625

NickD

Damn!! That's a big chip on your shoulder! I think you are reading too much into that post. I didn't see anything negative toward BASE.

[jacketsdb23 45]

I grounded a guy in Byron three weekends ago. If I had the authority to do so is another question. He was a visiting jumper from another country and spoke very little English. I saw his first landing and decided I would check his paper work first hand. Waiver stated 400 jumps so I asked for a logbook and received the information. Everything looked good. Spoke to another jumper who is staff and could speak the language and asked him to talk with the visiting jumper about his landing.

Second jump he pounded in under a Cobalt 150. I'm completely baffled as to how he didn't break something. He stood up and I asked if he was OK? He said yes. I then told him he was done jumping for the day. He didn't really understand that so I had it translated. He got the idea pretty quickly.

Its funny how you can watch someone fly and red flags immediately go off for some people.

The grounding was effective until there was better training and a larger parachute. He didn't jump the rest of the day. Not sure if he has been back since.

This brings up a very good question of who really has authority to ground someone. Ultimately I suppose the DZO or Manager has the final say, with input from staff and S&TA.

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

[bclark 0]

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First, will someone please enlighten me as to what a "DGIT" is?

I prefer STBDMF. (Soon to be Dead Mother Fucker)

[grimmie 173]

When I used to LO in Eloy, we could ground jumpers by just recommending it, and why, to the management. (15 yrs ago)

[Amazon 7]

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When I used to LO in Eloy, we could ground jumpers by just recommending it, and why, to the management. (15 yrs ago)

Burkings are awsum to watch

[grimmie 173]

Yup.

[MartinOlsson 0]

A couple of years ago I was chief instructor at the local dz. One day I grounded a guy for repeatedly doing hazardous things under canopy. A few days later I managed to swoop into and through a fence. For the sake of fairness I grounded myself for as long as I grounded the other guy. I have since never swooped through a fence

/Martin

[pinkfairy 0]

Yes, I've seen someone grounded temporarily for a botched swoop that he was lucky to walk away from, and I know about a couple of students who were grounded permanently, for pretty serious incidents that could have killed them (one landed a malfunction, one landed a downplane). And it wasn't just the incidents, it's their attitudes, they didn't understand how serious it was, or how they could have handled the situation differently. One of them had a lot of repeat jumps during AFF and just didn't seem to want to actually pull any handles.

Over here, all the DZs are operated by the parachute clubs, and we use the same rules, and can get someone grounded for the entire country, because all the clubs are in the same parachute association.

Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet.

I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you?

[jumpwally 0]

WTF is a CI ? damn shortcuts....

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[Blink 0]

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WTF is a CI ? damn shortcuts....

Chief Instructor is my guess.

[jtnesbitt 0]

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WTF is a CI ? damn shortcuts....

Chief Instructor

"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

[Jbag 0]

i was grounded for landing in the pool at elsinore for 2 weeks =D

IHYD

[Andy9o8 0]

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i was grounded for landing in the pool at elsinore for 2 weeks =D

I'm just amazed they let you get away with doing that it for 2 weeks before finally putting their foot down.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Just to give a little balance to this thread- in my five years, I've seen about 4 or 5 groundings for downsizing... faster than the S&TA did. For the most part, these people just waited it out or went to another dropzone. None have busted themselves up yet. Just goes to show that you only hear about the ones that make a good "I told you so" story. Sometimes, the people doing the grounding do get it wrong.

It easy to say "Well he survived downsizing too fast. The next guy should do it too." Let's say 4 out of 5 don't get hurt by it. Is a 20% serious injury rate acceptable? I've had to cut gear off of too many seriously injured people to be okay with those odds.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

Way way back I saw a person (then) going through AFF get grounded, for that day. After hearing there would be a long delay for him that day in between training and jumping, he snuck off to the parking lot for a beer and got caught. OBTW, he completed AFF training, eventually got a Tandem Master rate and took who knows how many passengers for skydives despite (some would say) a drinking problem. He eventually drifted away from the sport.

I've seen folks get grounded for the rest of the day or the rest of the weekend for a really low pull and after being called on it by the DZO or S&TA they tried to back-talk them rather then just take their lumps.

I myself and about 3 or 4 others got grounded for the rest of the day after having given so much shit to a gal on the previous ride to altitude over their choice of who to give a blow-job to the previous night after a bunch a beer and pot that she went crying (literally) to the S&TA after we got down.


Throughout my skydiving "career" I've heard of different DZs having a "30 Day Board" with names of jumpers who've been grounded for 30 days. I'm sure it goes on, but rather than a 30 day board, mostly my experience has been if one screws up enough repeatedly or really bad enough once or does something to piss the DZO off, they become part of the "forever club" at that particular DZ... as in "go away and don't come back forever!"

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

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Just to give a little balance to this thread- in my five years, I've seen about 4 or 5 groundings for downsizing... faster than the S&TA did. For the most part, these people just waited it out or went to another dropzone. None have busted themselves up yet. Just goes to show that you only hear about the ones that make a good "I told you so" story. Sometimes, the people doing the grounding do get it wrong.

Mike, this is true, but in 16ish years in the sport... good, bad, right or wrong, agree or disagree... for the most part, I've seen several DZOs be of the attitude, "I may not be able to stop you from doing , but I can stop you from doing it at my DZ" and they send the offender elsewhere.

You're right, many times they go to a different DZ and nothing bad happens. Some times they do, or there wouldn't be those "I told you so" stories. Some times they go to a different DZ and get tossed out of there too.

[Hellis 0]

Yes.

He did AFF and had done perhaps 5-10 jumps after after the AFF.
Had a Pro-Track, came down bragging about pulling at 650 meters (the idiot didnt even know it records deployment altitude), so he was within the legal limit of pull altitude.
But he was bragging about it as it was his biggest moment.
And when we tried to have the saftey talk, he responded he didnt pull "in time" because he was thinking of what to do and eat that evening.
The very next jump he pulled the reserve, i dont know and dont care why.

I talked to one of the instructors about his attitude, he got grounded and i have not seen him since (8-9 months ago).
I think he is ashamed of what happend and what to let people forget about it before coming back.

Its kind of sad that we lost a jumper, but im not really sure if i would want to be on any of his loads anyway.

[fencebuster 7]

I have seen groundings for safety violations at my home DZ. I grounded a jumper who, on a memorial skydive for a deceased friend and jumper, in a belly group of 6 including very low number jumpers, thought it would be funny to turn the belly formation into a hybrid right above breakoff. He funneled the formation and a bunch of newbie jumpers found themselves below their pull altitudes unstable. He thought it was funny . . . Unsafe act and lack of judgment to recognize what he had done created a safety hazard for other jumpers. And, by-the-way, just prior to exit, I specifically warned the jumper not to pull any funny stuff on the jump. 2 weeks off to think about it. And he came back with a better attitude and appeared to be more safety conscious.

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[fcajump 153]

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So what HAVE you seen people grounded for (especially recently)?

Recently... not sure.
Have seen in the past:
- Jumper pulled from the plane by the S&TA (jumper's former student) for being obviously too tired (hung-over?) to safely jump.
- Jumpers coached by DZO to take up bowling, golf, knitting etc (out of general ear-shot and very politely/discretely)
- Jumper grounded for a month for "waiting for his dytter..." (pulled main at ~900-800')

Have also seen jumpers that should have been grounded, not be. Grounded jumpers leave for the DZ down the road.

BTW- I have ALSO seen a DZO pickup the phone and CALL the DZO down the road and tell them WHY the jumper was no longer jumping at DZ#1!! Last I heard the telephone-chain had covered all DZ's in a 4 hour radius.

We CAN self-police. We MUST self-police. And to those that cry about it, sorry... if we don't, the FED's WILL and push comes to shove... they will win. For those in the US that don't believe me... how much jumping did you do during the first month (or six) after 9/11/01? Try talking to jumpers or DZO's in other Countries where it is directly controlled by the Government.

Keep in mind... 90% of the voting public don't fly (though they might ride in the back of an airborne tin-can). 90% of the people that do fly think jumpers are nuts. If you don't think the government can restrict what they see as a danger, ask the pilots who fly^H^H^H flew out of Meigs Field in Chicago...


Just my $.02
JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[nsh 0]

Saw one guy grounded for at least one weekend in DZ in Russia (that was a very small weekend DZ - they didn't jump at workeek). Guy intentionally pulled under 1000ft.

I also saw somebody not grounded but put on the radio for awhile for crappy landings (the person has over 400 jumps and is very experienced in free-fly but not paying proper attention to canopy piloting). (US DZ)

I personally consider both cases as a fair treat.

[wmw999 2,121]

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also saw somebody not grounded but put on the radio for awhile for crappy landings (the person has over 400 jumps and is very experienced in free-fly but not paying proper attention to canopy piloting).

That is a really, really great penalty. And I mean that. It both provides some puhishment (humiliation), and education at the same time.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,396]

>I also saw somebody not grounded but put on the radio for awhile for
>crappy landings (the person has over 400 jumps and is very experienced in
>free-fly but not paying proper attention to canopy piloting).

We had a 100 jump wonder who had a Stiletto of some sort (too small for him) that he couldn't land. Finally he ran into someone on landing, and his punishment was having to jump the Raven II for a month.

[DanG 1]

There was a well known local FS competitor back in the day that would do everything she could to push the safety limits. After a few years of being grounded/banned from various DZ's, she could no longer find anyone to train with because everytime she'd start up with a new team, midway through the season she'd get banned or grounded, ruining her teams training schedule. I haven't heard about her in a while, but that may be because she's been banned for life from my local DZ.

I'll also reinterate what fencebuster and FCA said up thread. In Virginia, getting grounded for a serious violation at one DZ effectively gets you grounded statewide. The DZOs and club Presidents all keep each other informed about problem children.

- Dan G