Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not?

[NWFlyer 2]

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I don't know about anyone being killed, but I do know that an experienced jumper had never seen a bridle routed the way I route it and when pulling my pin cover he pulled my pin.

What do you do that's so unusual (and why do you choose to do it that way)? Why is it so easy to pop the pin just by lifting the flap?

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[The111 0]

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I don't want to find any examples...just like I don't want you touching my gear.

Why is that concept so hard to grasp?

1/2 you people can't spot, pack or land without slamming into each other or the ground...yeah I really want yer 'expertise' all over my gear...

Fair enough... I grasp.
FWIW, I do my own pin checks 99% of the time, but if the flap comes open somehow I ask for someone else to look at it. And I'd never touch somebody else's rig without asking, but I'd sure as shit tap them on the shoulder if I saw something of concern.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[demoknite 0]

This thread in a nutshell is one of the major things wrong with skydiving today. Unless youre jumping some super secret gear that only the CIA jumps your gear is in a standard dual container single harness configuration. Its not special and neither are you. Do you just walk from the hangar to the aircraft without having anyone check you? You have almost a million jumps so youre awesome and perfect right? No need.
Sure there are small variations between different pieces of kit but the misrouting of the chestrap is the same. Twisting your leg straps is the same, etc. You need to be checked.
These are the same threads where peoples heads explode when someone asks about canopy downsizing but we dare not lay a finger on your rig. Taking grips and holding hands during free fall is ok though. You can hold my chest strap or mud flaps on exit, just dont check them on the flight line. Gotcha.

[flipper 0]

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I don't know about anyone being killed, but I do know that an experienced jumper had never seen a bridle routed the way I route it and when pulling my pin cover he pulled my pin.

What do you do that's so unusual (and why do you choose to do it that way)? Why is it so easy to pop the pin just by lifting the flap?

+1

Am real interested in seeing how you route the bridle ... what advantages does it give you the way that you currently route it ?

[airtwardo 6]

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This thread in a nutshell is one of the major things wrong with skydiving today. Unless youre jumping some super secret gear that only the CIA jumps your gear is in a standard dual container single harness configuration. Its not special and neither are you. Do you just walk from the hangar to the aircraft without having anyone check you? You have almost a million jumps so youre awesome and perfect right? No need.
Sure there are small variations between different pieces of kit but the misrouting of the chestrap is the same. Twisting your leg straps is the same, etc. You need to be checked.
These are the same threads where peoples heads explode when someone asks about canopy downsizing but we dare not lay a finger on your rig. Taking grips and holding hands during free fall is ok though. You can hold my chest strap or mud flaps on exit, just dont check them on the flight line. Gotcha.

No I disagree, personal responsibility is not one of the major things wrong with the sport today.

Why would I have someone that doesn't even know how to pack their own rig check over mine?

I have established a routine of checking my handles, cables, housings, straps etc. THREE times before I put my rig on.

I KNOW my rig better than anyone else, so why would I have someone start messing with it in a crowded aircraft that may have never seen it before?

Yes I have seen flaps that were put back wrong following a check, I have seen people tell a jumper that their PC wasn't cocked causing all kinds of drama when in fact it was.

Certainly things ARE caught and problems averted during pin checks and that's great.

But don't tell me that my not wanting someone I don't know, dicking with my parachute is a problem for the sport...It's not.

I would encourage anyone that feels the need, to both receive & perform pin-checks...just don't be offended if I pass, and DO NOT do one without being asked.

I try to take a professional & pragmatic approach to my continued survival regarding my involvement in the sport...I try to evaluate the cost/benefit of the things I do, so no I don't do things like let someone hang on my chest strap...it clearly wasn't designed for that.

The personal choices and ultimate responsibilities are a couple of things that are RIGHT with the sport.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[demoknite 0]

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The personal choices and ultimate responsibilities are a couple of things that are RIGHT with the sport.

Its not the fact that you want to maintain and check your own gear (thats great!), its the attitude that you can do it better than others and no one dare come close to your kit. Just a skygod mentality. If thats how you feel more power to you.

However, your last quote sort of alludes to the original post. If someone personally chooses to wear a GO-PRO and takes responsibility for his own demise (or success) whats the big deal? Someone needs 100 jumps to be a coach but that same 100 jump person will be a splat on the ground with their GO-PRO?

[airtwardo 6]

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The personal choices and ultimate responsibilities are a couple of things that are RIGHT with the sport.

Its not the fact that you want to maintain and check your own gear (that's great!), its the attitude that you can do it better than others and no one dare come close to your kit. Just a skygod mentality. If that's how you feel more power to you.

However, your last quote sort of alludes to the original post. If someone personally chooses to wear a GO-PRO and takes responsibility for his own demise (or success) whats the big deal? Someone needs 100 jumps to be a coach but that same 100 jump person will be a splat on the ground with their GO-PRO?

I agree...I don't tell someone with 100 jumps not to jump a camera. I don't have the qualified experience to make a judgement call on someone else's abilities in that regard.

I use to jump a camera with 100 jumps and back then it was a 'super 8' ...quite a bit different than today's micro units.

However back then it WAS a different time, I had a C license, could pack, spot, do demos, jump-master & instruct S/L students...we learned things in different, maybe less accelerated ways with different goals and approaches.

Not saying better, just very different.

And if you knew me personally, you would understand that I'm about the furthest thing there is from a 'skygod'.

I routinely spent a couple hundred bucks on a weekend jumping with '100 jump wonders', and take pleasure in it.

I jump a lot of solo style and answer the obvious questions for those who have never seen it, or may want to watch me and try.

I've missed loads because of helping A & B jumpers pack their own rigs without asking, expecting or taking $ for doing it...a 'skygod' I'm not.

BUT...I have seen someone ask for a check in the AC only to have the jumper checking his reserve hand him the lead seal and say 'opps sorry'...I had a guy a few weeks ago that was test jumping a Racer ask me to check his reserve pin on jump-run.

I don't have the time or inclination to 'interview' someone as to their qualifications regarding the appraisal of my parachute once we're in the aircraft...and I've seen enough to be more comfortable with just leaving well enough alone in MY case.

Again, I don't tell people NOT to perform or receive pin checks.


I like the fact that several of the 4 way teams I video go through a practiced routine of checking each others gear, I also like that they understand I have my own routine that I've developed over the past 35 years that allows me to be confident that my gear is safe & functional.

I don't insult someone that may ask me if I want a pin check by saying I don't 'trust' them or don't think they are qualified, or that I'm 'better' than they are in some way...I know better.

I simply say no thanks.

It's a personal thing...when it comes to life saving equipment that I own & maintain, I would rather be the final word on it's airworthiness.


Edited to add:
Back to the topic, as I said, I don't condone or discourage the use of small cameras for jumpers with less than 200 jumps, I do hope they understand and take into consideration the possible problems jumping one may cause & if they ask my opinion I tell them that.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[brettski74 0]

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how bout those that actually have learned to maintain and check their gear for themselves!?

Here we go again...

You had your rant on this in another thread. This thread is about small form factor cameras, not gear checks or pin checks. Try to stay on topic. If you don't want your gear checked, that's your business, but stop trying to make everyone think they're dumb if they choose to ask for a pin check.

[DSE 3]

probably better to create a new thread for this one.
My bridle doesn't come over the flaps, it is entirely under the flap.
It reduces the risk of hesitation in low speed deployment, it provides for a smoother opening/clearance in low speed openings.
It's no "easier" or "less easier" to pull open when pulling the pin cover open if the pin cover is opened correctly, but many people seem to think they need to get their fingers under that pin cover when they're opening it, thus catching a bit of the bridle.

[billvon 2,384]

>Unless youre jumping some super secret gear that only the CIA jumps your gear is in a standard
>dual container single harness configuration.

I don't have "super secret" gear. But my second rig is a Reflex and most people don't know how to gear check the reserve pin. Nothing wrong with that, but it does mean that they can't check it and I generally don't ask. (And yes, I have had people try to pry the pop top off.)

>Do you just walk from the hangar to the aircraft without having anyone check you?

Never. Someone always checks. Usually it's me.

>You have almost a million jumps so youre awesome and perfect right?

No more so than you have a million jumps and will awesomely and perfectly check other people's gear every time.

[virgin-burner 1]

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how bout those that actually have learned to maintain and check their gear for themselves!?

Here we go again...

You had your rant on this in another thread. This thread is about small form factor cameras, not gear checks or pin checks. Try to stay on topic. If you don't want your gear checked, that's your business, but stop trying to make everyone think they're dumb if they choose to ask for a pin check.

your post is astray as much as mine, but since mine was actually part of the discussion..

oh, and never have i implied you were stupid; if you think you are, i cant change that..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[kkeenan 13]

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Some people may be distracted by a camera and others may not.

I'm not sure that waiting until they bounce is the best way to identify those who may be distracted.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[chutem 0]

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I was just talking to an old timer with 2000+ jumps who's been in the sport forever. He told me he tried a gopro for a while just to get some inside video of his own jumps. He found it so distracting that he got rid of it. And yet everyone with 50 jumps doesn't get distracted at all. It's a miracle.

Dave

The youth of today have grown up living their lives with multiple "distractions". I'd go as far as to say that some of them wouldn't know what to do WITHOUT some type of camera on them at all times.

Some people may be distracted by a camera and others may not.

The youth of today has grown up expecting instant gratification. Working their way up to a certain level prior to getting what they want is something many just don't understand.

James

[rehmwa 2]

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its the attitude that you can do it better than others and no one dare come close to your kit. Just a skygod mentality

absolute nonsense - he's like me. I check my own gear. I am grateful to anyone asking me if I want a pin check - sometimes I say 'yes', sometimes I say 'no' - I always say 'thank you'.

But please don't touch the gear without asking first - it's just plain courtesy. I always ask them before touching their gear - I expect the same courtesy from them.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,384]

>The youth of today has grown up expecting instant gratification.

It's not just today; youth has always been like that.

But yes, it's a problem. Most people in the sport for a short time have never seen a fatality or even a serious injury. So for them, anyone who tells them "you shouldn't do that" is a twat who thinks that they're God's gift to skydiving, and only they can do the cool exciting stuff. Why else would they try to stop them?

[demoknite 0]

This thread was about go-pros then devolved into a gear check thread. Unfortunate. I guess its just a different way of operating. At all the places Ive jumped whoever is manifested on the load all gather in a common pre jump area where people declare their jumps, exit order is established and landing patterns are discussed and (gasp!) people check eachothers gear. If you dont get checked by someone else, you dont jump. Im not hear to change the world or the way anyone operates. I was merely stating how it comes off as a bit snooty.

[airtwardo 6]

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This thread was about go-pros then devolved into a gear check thread. Unfortunate. I guess its just a different way of operating. At all the places Ive jumped whoever is manifested on the load all gather in a common pre jump area where people declare their jumps, exit order is established and landing patterns are discussed and (gasp!) people check each others gear. If you don't get checked by someone else, you don't jump. Im not hear to change the world or the way anyone operates. I was merely stating how it comes off as a bit snooty.

Perception isn't always reality...If ya have a lotta 'snooty' around you, then ya may see it even where it isn't.

I jump at a DZ where three turbine aircraft are turning all day long on the weekend, 250 tandems is a common day, and I don't know 1/2 the people on the load.

Maybe if I knew the guy sitting next to me for a few years I wouldn't be so hesitant...but then again, the people I do know well, know not to ask me...and that I'm not being a 'snooty skygod'.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[dgskydive 0]

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Check your shit, check your friends shit and have your friends check your shit or one of you could be in a world of shit.

+1

If you dont want me to check your shit, dont get on the plane anywhere near me. I may not touch it, but I am looking. And If I do touch it, there is a reason. To be honest you can kill yourself if ya want, but your not taking me and everyone else on the plane with you.

Dom

[rehmwa 2]

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If you dont want me to check your shit, dont get on the plane anywhere near me. I may not touch it, but I am looking. And If I do touch it, there is a reason. To be honest you can kill yourself if ya want, but your not taking me and everyone else on the plane with you.

please look all you want, and if you see something weird tell me before you "fix" it. And thank you very much, I'll look out for you too and be grateful every time.

but before you start hauling away at my flaps and stuff, just ask first - I'll also be very grateful.

why is that such a difficult concept? (if I know you are there, I'll hold still, I'll be there to answer any question if you see something, etc etc etc)


And, why do we carefully look at the pin and bridle. Then we close the flaps and SLAP!!! the back of the container. ()

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[dgskydive 0]

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The youth of today have grown up living their lives with multiple "distractions". I'd go as far as to say that some of them wouldn't know what to do WITHOUT some type of camera on them at all times.

Some people may be distracted by a camera and others may not.

Texting and playing a video game while drinking Mountain Dew and eating a pizza is not the same things as being distracted by a video camera when yours and others lives are on the line.

Dom

[matthewcline 0]

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And, why do we carefully look at the pin and bridle. Then we close the flaps and SLAP!!! the back of the container. ()

Hey its cool as long as they say "Good Game"


Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[dgskydive 0]

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please look all you want, and if you see something weird tell me before you "fix" it.

but before you start hauling away at my flaps and stuff, just ask first

why is that such a difficult concept?

Bill, if you and I were sitting on a plane and I pushed you forward and said...... "Hold up, we have a problem here." Your saying you wouldn't let me fix your gear? Of course I would tell you what the problem was and what I did to fix it.

The problem here is that a lot of people think that they are above having people check their gear. I have had a reserve handle come loose in the plane and had my pin pop after the door was open. I am glad that in both of those situations that the people that saw it didn't spend time worrying if they could touch my gear. I was grabbed on both occasions and jumpers started working on it right away. Obviously I wanted to know what was going on and they told me, but didnt worry that I was going to get mad before they did something.

Dom

[NWFlyer 2]

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The problem here is that a lot of people think that they are above having people check their gear. I have had a reserve handle come loose in the plane and had my pin pop after the door was open. I am glad that in both of those situations that the people that saw it didn't spend time worrying if they could touch my gear. I was grabbed on both occasions and jumpers started working on it right away. Obviously I wanted to know what was going on and they told me, but didnt worry that I was going to get mad before they did something.

I would hope that people would feel differently about the "door's open and the shit's hitting the fan" situations like you just described and the "I'm sitting behind you on the ride to altitude and notice something well before jump run" situations. If your PC is at risk of going out an open door, it's time for action not a polite "Uh, hey, Dom, you might want to check your reserve pin."

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[billvon 2,384]

>if you and I were sitting on a plane and I pushed you forward and
>said...... "Hold up, we have a problem here."

If you did it while I was doing the final talkthrough with a student, or your pushing me knocked my camera into the O2 manifold - I'd be pretty annoyed. If you just said "hey, riser cover's open" then that would be both helpful and welcomed.

[The111 0]

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And, why do we carefully look at the pin and bridle. Then we close the flaps and SLAP!!! the back of the container. ()

Agreed... even though realistically I don't think slapping the container will harm anything, I always slap on the shoulder myself. It is also something you can actually feel (since you have nerves in your shoulder but not on your container).

www.WingsuitPhotos.com