petition for exemption to the 120 day reserve repack cycle denied

[phoenixlpr 0]

From Paratech/Speed 2000 Manual:

As mentioned above, your Speed 2000 reserve must be inspected by qualified personel before it is
used for the first time and before every repack, no matter if it was used or not. The periodic
inspection and repack cycle for this Reserve Parachute is 12 months. Other countries may have
different regulations, so please check with your responsible organisation.

[tombuch 0]

Quote

And the connection to an airplane? I would say an aireplane is a MUCH more complicated piece of machinery and yet they only have a yearly inspection. Seems like an airplane should go to 120 days.

An airplane used for commercial operations (such as skydiving) requires an inspection every 100 hours of use, plus an annual inspection. I'd like to see the same kind of 'double standard' applied to skydiving, such that a parachute system that is used by students or available for rent has a 120 day repack and inspection, while a rig used by the owner and not in a commercial application should have a longer repack cycle.
.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[GTAVercetti 0]

Quote

Quote

And the connection to an airplane? I would say an aireplane is a MUCH more complicated piece of machinery and yet they only have a yearly inspection. Seems like an airplane should go to 120 days.

An airplane used for commercial operations (such as skydiving) requires an inspection every 100 hours of use, plus an annual inspection. I'd like to see the same kind of 'double standard' applied to skydiving, such that a parachute system that is used by students or available for rent has a 120 day repack and inspection, while a rig used by the owner and not in a commercial application should have a longer repack cycle.
.

Sure. I guess I should have clarified about non-commercial use myself, but I was just going of the previous post.

A double standard certainly would be...interesting.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[jdfreefly 1]

Well....no shit. I would actually say that the primary cause was that they did not properly maintain their gear.

But the point is, that the sport is changing, and it is changing in a way that may make a 180 day repack cycle unwise.

Methane Freefly - got stink?

[GTAVercetti 0]

Quote

Well....no shit. I would actually say that the primary cause was that they did not properly maintain their gear.

But the point is, that the sport is changing, and it is changing in a way that may make a 180 day repack cycle unwise.

Wait, the sport is changing and making some idiots forget to repack their WET reserves? umm, yeah.

Sorry man, but if you pond swoop and don't do a repack afterwards, that is your neglect. The repack is not there to protect you from being a moron and not maintaining your gear.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Skydivers in the U.S. generally do not take good care of their gear. The 120-re-pack cycle gets a rigger's hands on it before something goes too long usually. Extending the re-pack cycle would mean more problems would go longer without gettting fixed. If people took better care of their gear, I would be all for extending the re-pack cycle to 180+ days. I had a though that if all the componets were brand new, reserve, AAD, and container, then it would be a 180-day re-pack cycle until a rigger dropped it to 120-days. That idea is full of problems though.

Derek

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

Personally I think that the regs should say "parachute equipment must be maintained to the manufacturer's requirements" period. We already do that with AAD's, and PD knows their equipment better than the FAA does.

And how many people send their PDR's in for a permability test after getting it wet?

Derek

[GTAVercetti 0]

Quote

Skydivers in the U.S. generally do not take good care of their gear. The 120-re-pack cycle gets a rigger's hands on it before something goes too long usually. Extending the re-pack cycle would mean more problems would go longer without gettting fixed. If people took better care of their gear, I would be all for extending the re-pack cycle to 180+ days. I had a though that if all the componets were brand new, reserve, AAD, and container, then it would be a 180-day re-pack cycle until a rigger dropped it to 120-days. That idea is full of problems though.

Derek

So you then know that skydiver in all the other countries that have 180 day or more repacks are great at maintaining their gear?
Or are you strictly going from the US side?

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

Or are you strictly going from the US side?

Just the U.S. side.

Maybe an inspection every 120-days without un-packing it, unless something was found to warrent it, and a 180-day or annual re-pack/inspection?

Derek

[GTAVercetti 0]

Quote

Quote

Or are you strictly going from the US side?

Just the U.S. side.

Maybe an inspection every 120-days without un-packing it, unless something was found to warrent it, and a 180-day or annual re-pack/inspection?

Derek

That might be a alternative, but that is one thing I usually do myself with a rigger anyway. At least once a month I am asking my rigger a question about something maybe suspect on my rig.

And really, pretty much the rest of the world goes on a 180 day or longer cycle and I cannot imagine that all their skydivers are leaps and bounds more attentive to their rigs than most of our skydivers. And it seems to work for them.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[gemini 0]

Quote

Skydivers in the U.S. generally do not take good care of their gear.

I call BS!

Do you have facts to support this statement or is it a gut feel? Even if it was true for a significant number of your rigging customers that would only prove that your customers generally do not take good care of their gear.

Blue skies,

Jim

[rigger_john 0]

In the UK we have had a 6 month repack for as years, I'm a full time rigger working at a busy military sports parachute centre.

I can honestly say that I don't see any problems that make me think a 120 day repack would be any better.

I can't think of one problem that made me say, "if that had been inspected 60 days ago it wouldn't have happened"

_________________________________________

Nullius in Verba

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

I call BS!

Do you have facts to support this statement or is it a gut feel? Even if it was true for a significant number of your rigging customers that would only prove that your customers generally do not take good care of their gear.

Everywhere I have been it is the same, the majority do not take good care of their gear. Looking at customer's rigs and the rigs on people's backs, it is the same. Some people take very good care, most don't.

Let's find out in a poll: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1873728;poll=results

Derek

[tr027 0]

Quote

Everywhere I have been it is the same, the majority do not take good care of their gear. Looking at customer's rigs and the rigs on people's backs, it is the same. Some people take very good care, most don't.
Let's find out in a poll: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1873728;poll=results

Well, the poll is showing 70+% of people trash their gear then (for not cleaning cables at least every 30 days), and if I understand your post correctly, the 4month cycle is the only thing saving those people(roughly).

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

Well, the poll is showing 70+% of people trash their gear then (for not cleaning cables at least every 30 days),

I wouldn't say that if you don't clean your cables every 30-days you trash your gear, but you don't care for it as well as you should. A lot of people don't clean them at all, letting their rigger do it. Extgending the re-pack cycle would extend things like that, including replacing closing loops, flexing the 3-rings, and repairs that need to be done.

Quote

and if I understand your post correctly, the 4month cycle is the only thing saving those people(roughly).

Depending on the enviroment, 4 months w/o cleaning the cables can contribute to a hard cutaway. Going 6 months without cleaning the cables is begging for a hard cutaway.

I stand by what I said, most people don't take good care of their gear. Extending the re-pack cycle will extend the time that the gear sees any maintenance, preventive or otherwise.

Derek

[nate_1979 9]

I'm all for the increase to 180 days... It's not the money, it's the pain in the ass aspect of having to take my rig in to get repacked.. I know that I take care of my gear, other countries are having success with 180 days, cant see it causing that many problems.. Myself and most skydivers that I know also dont have the problem of pond swooping screwing up our reserves

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[thepollster 0]

Quote

Extgending the re-pack cycle would extend things like that, including replacing closing loops, flexing the 3-rings, and repairs that need to be done.

Since I replace my closing loop when it is worn, and I have mini-risers which don't need to be flexed, you conclude I don't take care of my gear? I think I take care of my gear because I don't leave it in a hot trunk, I don't get it wet, and I don't leave it in the sun I am okay.

I am more worried about riggers who don't educate their customers about things such as riser inserts and loose BOC's. The vast majority of riggers look past those things, maybe out of ignorance or apathy. And a poll on DZ.com wouldn't be a accurate sample, because most people who read the gear forums take the time to educate themselves.

[billvon 2,396]

>Everyone that wants a 180 day repack is interested in saving money on repacks . . .

Nope. PD is in favor of 360 day repacks (at least on their reserves) and they will make LESS money in the long run if that happens because people will have to replace their reserves slightly less often. And I tend to take PD's word on how to maintain their equipment over the FAA's.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

Since I replace my closing loop when it is worn, and I have mini-risers which don't need to be flexed,

Mini-risers do need to be flexed.

Quote

Since I replace my closing loop when it is worn, and I have mini-risers which don't need to be flexed, you conclude I don't take care of my gear? I think I take care of my gear because I don't leave it in a hot trunk, I don't get it wet, and I don't leave it in the sun I am okay.

That is not what I said. I said people that don't clean their cutaway cables, flex their 3-rings, replace their closing loops, get repairs done promptly, etc don't take good care of their gear.

Quote

I am more worried about riggers who don't educate their customers about things such as riser inserts and loose BOC's. The vast majority of riggers look past those things, maybe out of ignorance or apathy. And a poll on DZ.com wouldn't be a accurate sample, because most people who read the gear forums take the time to educate themselves.

So, a poll on DZ.com would be skewed towards more people that take care of their gear? So far 75% of the people responding (that in your opinion are more likely to take care of their gear) don't clean their cutaway cables every 30-days as recommended by Bill Booth.

I have a web page with all sorts of gear tips on it, along with "Derek's Gear Tips", here on DZ.com.

Jumpers do not take good care of their gear and extending the re-pack cycle would make it worse.

Like I posted earlier, I would be in favor of an outside inspection requirement every 120-days, that may include a re-pack if necessary, and a 180-day re-pack inspection cycle. But going to 180-days between visits to a rigger is asking for trouble because of the lack of attention jumpers pay to their gear.

Derek

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

'm all for the increase to 180 days... It's not the money, it's the pain in the ass aspect of having to take my rig in to get repacked.. I know that I take care of my gear, other countries are having success with 180 days, cant see it causing that many problems.. Myself and most skydivers that I know also dont have the problem of pond swooping screwing up our reserves

Some people take extremely good care of their rigs. The FAR has to be based on the mean average though. I get some rigs in that would be fine every 6+ months because they are in great shape, the owner takes great care of it, and they will bring it in before a re-pack is due if something needs attantion. They are in the minority though.

Derek

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I'm all for the increase to 180 days... It's not the money, it's the pain in the ass aspect of having to take my rig in to get repacked..

aye - having traveled to LA last weekend before my 120 expired today, I now need to get my rig out 90 miles from here to be taken care of. Must rent or jump bandit or not jump, none of which I want to do. Fortunately it looks like I've found a jumper that can deliver it for me.

Cost savings of moving to a 180 is less than 3% for a 100 jump year. Not a big part of the equation.

[IanHarrop 37]

Quote

Quote

Since I replace my closing loop when it is worn, and I have mini-risers which don't need to be flexed,

Mini-risers do need to be flexed.

From what I understand reading what this poster said (he quotes someone) not all mini-riser need to be flexed...
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1702258#1702258

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

From what I understand reading what this poster said (he quotes someone) not all mini-riser need to be flexed... Smile

Ya, that was more about spinning the rings. From releasing 3-rings, I notice a difference, on the ground anyways, between risers that have been recently flexed and those that haven't. They will still work, but they work a little better when they have been flexed. Either way, the cutaway cables need to be cleaned.

Derek

[thepollster 0]

I don't know how to link this, but Bill Booth said this in another post:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only part of a correctly made Type 17 mini 3-ring riser (with 5/8" webbing holding the small riser ring) that might need flexing is the white closing loop. This "flexing the webbing" business comes from 20 years ago when we used 1 3/4" Type 12 webbing to hold the small riser ring on Type 8 risers. This webbing, because it was so wide in relation to the small ring, and because there is so much mechanical advantage in the "large" 3-ring system, could cause a problem if it got "stiff". Just clean and lube the yellow cable every month with silicone, and you should never have a problem

[Hooknswoop 19]

So don't flex them. Again, I am not saying you don't take good care of your gear. I am saying most people don't. Look at the results from the 30-day cleaning cutaway cables poll. 3/4 of the responders don't clean their cutaway cables every 30 days. It takes 5 minutes and can make a huge difference. Most people don't do it, either from ignorance or just couldn't be bothered.

Derek