Problems with reserve parachute systems

[istvan90 0]

There is a significant problem with today's skydiving equipment, mainly the reserve parachute system. If one reviews fatality articles, fatality databases, one will find way too many incidents leading to death in which the fatality was a result of unsuccessfull reserve parachute deployement due to reserve and main entanglement. In fact, today's skydiving equipment, and today's reserve parachute system requires the following in order for the jumper to have any chance of survivor: 1, successfull cutaway from a malfunctioned main; 2, a malfunctioned main that does not tangle with the body of the jumper; 3, stable or somewhat stable body position on reserve deployemnt. It seems that today's reserve parachute system does not allow for a REAL malfunction; today's reserve parachute system allows only for a "not so bad malfunction" one that can successfully be cut away. Upon reviewing the fatality databases, one will notice that many fatalites resulting in double malfunction are a result of a REAL BAD main malfunction which can not be cut away, perhaps due to lines being tangled in arms and legs, or canopy being wrapped around skydiver's body, or the 3 ring release system failure. The reserve parachute used today can not handle any type of the above mentioned scneerios, hence this system is nothing more then a second parachute attached to the rig. Individuals and skydiving equipment manufacturers should place huge emphasis on the development of a reserve parachute system that does not require a successfull cut away for it to deploy, since some malfunctions are such that a successfull clean cut away is not always possible. Skydivers do get tangled up in lines, deploying lines do get cut in reserve flaps, as well as in the harness. A tangled main canopy that is wrapped around the body of a jumper should not lead to death, the invention of a reserve parachute system that deploys and safely lowers the jumper to the ground even when entangelement is present and successfull cut away is impossible is warranted for invention. Today's sport parachute manufacturers and anyone with time and money at hand should seriously look into this issue. Perhaps, today's reserve system could be replaced with rocket deployed reserves, similar to ones used on light airplanes, or perhaps we could use some other method that allows for survival in the above mentioned events. The use of the catapult system is an advancement; however, i believe perhaps one of the best possible solutions would be is to use a rocket that would be used only as last resort when it is impossible to cut away. The rocket would shoot the reserve parac

***[email][url]hute in a metal container througth any mess and then once it is clear of any mess( wouild require longer suspension lines  at least twice the lenght) the chute wouild inflate. The rocket of course would have to be desinged with built in safety futures that would prevent accidental firing on the ground or in the airplane! The rocket could only be fired deliberately if activated by the jumper and accidental activation would be desinged to be impossible. Covering the switch to activate the system with safety covers is one idea, as well as using metal seals. So if the jumper is tangled in the mess, first he would try to cut away the traditional way and if he succeeded he would then just deploy the reserve the traditional way., but if he does not succeed with the clean cut away, then he would not deploy the reserve the traditional way, instead he would use the rocket deploy sytem. The systm could be designed to be able to deploy traditionally and also via rocket in a metal can, depending on the actiavation command by the jumper. The desing of such system is not at all difficult, if given the time and money and passion. If one implements such system, it would certainly be a significant improvement in today's skydiving equipment, may certainly save lives and would finally warrant the labelling of the second parachute to be called a RESERVE!

			
		

[piisfish 135]

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scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[bob.dino 0]

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The desing of such system is not at all difficult, if given the time and money and passion.

So why don't you do it yourself then?

Oh, and that's possibly the worst-formatted post I've ever seen on dz.com, and that's saying something. Please remove the url tag.

[bob.dino 0]

In short: we need rocket-fired reserves that can deploy when the jumper is wrapped. Apparently the design of such a system would be easy.

[istvan90 0]

it is poorly formatted because i dont know how to formatt it. and that is not relevent to my original idea anyways, as to why i dont do it myself, it is because i dont have the money, or the time. I am ont so rich. So how should i format it for it to be better then what it is now?

[Joellercoaster 6]

Line breaks are nice!

(Also, hasn't there already been a powered-reserve thread on dz.com recently?)

[edit: sometimes proofreading is cool.]

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[bob.dino 0]

It's now much better without that stray url tag. However, for it to read more clearly, break it up into paragraphs. It's very difficult to read that much text in one sitting.

[Tonto 1]

There is nothing wrong with the current reserve system.

Without exception, all the problems you mentioned are either user problems, or problems with other aspects of the system.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[f1shlips 2]

What if the rocket malfunctions? I think two rockets would be better.

--
drop zone (drop'zone) n. An incestuous sesspool of broken people. -- Attributed to a whuffo girlfriend.

[ryand96 0]

Why can't you just design your rocket to slow the descent rate to a survivable speed? That would be cool! We could use jetpacks instead of parachutes. Get on it! I'll order the first one. I can't wait for the opportunity to jump out of an airplane with 500 lbs. of metal and explosives on my back.

[wmw999 2,114]

It would add quite a bit of complexity and expense to the reserve system, which might reduce its appeal to people for whom a main-reserve entanglement is not the most likely (i.e. anyone but CRW enthusiasts). If the cost of certifying and replacing the rocket, and making sure that it hadn't damaged the reserve, were included in every reserve use, it might make the cost of a use something like $300. Cheap for your life, but I probably wouldn't pay the difference.

On the other hand, there is nothing to keep you from working on a rocket that would have reserve carry-out as a reasonable application. It would have to have well-protected pyrotechnics, because otherwise you might damage either the reserve lines (bad) or the main (expensive but not as bad).

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jurgencamps 0]

Euh, ever watched a rocket launch? Flames, heat ...

[phoenixlpr 0]

How many jumps, cut-away, fatalities like that by year worldwide? I don't think that is a real issue.

This article does not indicate practical knowledge about rigs. Troll ?

[piisfish 135]

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In short: we need rocket-fired reserves that can deploy when the jumper is wrapped. Apparently the design of such a system would be easy.

now it's been edited much easier to read...

There used to be (don't know if they still exist) pyrotechnically expulsed reserve parachutes for paragliders a couple of years ago.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[EvilLurker 2]

A rocket-powered reserve is not going to be something you will be allowed to carry aboard a commercial aircraft, and I have my doubts you'll even be allowed to transport it across a state line or store it in your home without voiding your homeowners insurance policy. Now, imagine the scenario where it accidently fires on the jump plane. Not a pleasant thought.
A better solution might be replacing the pilot chute with a weight and a stronger launch system similar to those used in ejection seats. That would reduce the possibility of the reserve PC entangling with the harness/main until it was clear of the clutter. No design is going to be 100% reliable, though, if you wrap a canopy around it first.

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There used to be (don't know if they still exist) pyrotechnically expulsed reserve parachutes for paragliders a couple of years ago.

You can get one for a Cessna right now if you want to spend $16,000.
http://brsparachutes.com/BRS6July05.htm

[istvan90 0]

Thanks for all the valid critiques. Anyhow although it is true that reserve and main entanglements are not the number one killer in this sport, they still do happen quite a number of times, and my idea was is to design a system that would prevent this from happening again. Rockets might have problmens with it, but perhaps it may be possible to still use them only as a last resort. If not rockeets, we could use as mentioned earlier, weights and a very strong lunch for the pilot chute. Or what about leaving the main and reserve system the way it is now, and adding on the front of the harness a very small round canopy (one that does not provide any nuisance to the jumpers). This small canopy would be the last resort and it could be in a deployment system that can be thrown clear of any mess , would have long lines and would go above and beyond any mess before it would even clear of the deployment bag. Or perhaps adding small rockets to this sytem such as the ones used in model rocketry might be an idea. It may sound naive but there has to be an idea first for any new invention to take place.

[istvan90 0]

Do any of you have any ideas as to the above problem. What new design could we use that if a wrap is present or a succesfull cut away is impossible, what new system could be invented that would still open the reserve? I want some ideas!

[mjosparky 3]

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Do any of you have any ideas as to the above problem. What new design could we use that if a wrap is present or a succesfull cut away is impossible, what new system could be invented that would still open the reserve? I want some ideas!

Fill out your profile if you want to be taken seriously.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Praetorian 1]

Quote

Fill out your profile if you want to be taken seriously.

Why?
This thread started seriously enough, he has responded to comments without personal attacks...

what in his profile would make this discussion more valid?
Debate and discussion are about the ideas involved not the person who puts them into play

Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad
judgment.

[diablopilot 2]

In a perfect world there are some positive aspects to your theory. In reality, you'd have a more complext system in the hands of jumpers who really don't care about their gear, will leave it in the trunk or their car, drag it across the ground, accidentaly deploy it in the aircraft, and bitch and moan about the $350 repack price.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[billvon 2,379]

"Joe Target was killed and Jim Swooper was seriously injured on Saturday when they had a collision after opening at State DZ. Both jumpers had opened successfully at around 2500 feet, but a lack of separation led them to collide a few seconds after opening. An entanglement resulted. After trying for five seconds to clear his main from Joe's body, Jim first tried to cut away, then fired his rocket-propelled reserve in an attempt to escape. The rocket hit Joe under the chin, killing him instantly. The exhaust then incinerated most of Jim's reserve, leaving him spinning under two small malfunctioning mains."

A rocket propelled skydiving reserve is a solution in search of a problem. Very few reserves fail because they cannot find "good air." In addition, carrying a flammable explosive device on your rig is going to cause some significant issues with shipping a rig, carrying it on an airplane, and maintaining it. Check out how much it costs to ship explosives.

[riggermick 6]

This small canopy would be the last resort and it could be in a deployment system that can be thrown clear of any mess , would have long lines and would go above and beyond any mess before it would even clear of the deployment bag.


I designed one of those for paragliding back in the early eighties. I was marketed under the Aerolite brand (one of tony Domenico's old co's). I re-designed the system in the mid 90's as a tertiary reserve system for use during the Reflex drop testing program. works like a champ, no control over where you want to go but at least you don't hit the ground hard enough to dent it. It is a free bag deployed design that the user can hurl in any direction he/ she can find clear air to get it in to. The paragliding version had a single 30' (or so) long bridle attachment point so as to allow it to get as far away as possible before inflating. The drop test version was a QAC (quick (relativly speaking)attachable chest) type for easy donning/ detaching and had to have a pretty beefy cross connector fitted. Both work on the same princible. I didn't invent the original concept of the gravity deployed free bag round, I just made it practical, the idea's been around a while.

Mick.

[jsaxton 0]

A rocket can be propelled with a compressed gas, eliminating the problems associated with an explosive/combustable propellent.

See, I _can_ be constructive

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

Quote

Fill out your profile if you want to be taken seriously.

Why?
This thread started seriously enough, he has responded to comments without personal attacks...

what in his profile would make this discussion more valid?
Debate and discussion are about the ideas involved not the person who puts them into play

I wasn't talking to you.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Back in the 60's there was an article in SKYDIVER magazine about such a reserve. At that time
( apparently ) the FAA wanted 1,000 successful test firings to approve it. It would not ( in my opinion ) be able to be approved under TSO C23b
( remember, in the 60's ).
As regards, a ballistic parachute, BRS Systems in Minnesota ( I think ) make them for light aircraft; Gary Douris of Free Flight makes the canopies for them. If I were designing such an animal I would make it only a ballistic system and eliminate the pilot chute, let just fire right through the pack fabric and anything else in its way (such as going through your buddy, Joe Jumpers's body ).
Everything has its pluses and minuses.