bigway 4 #1 August 24, 2005 I have found threads about the stiletto or safire but not the safire 2. I am very close to buying a safire 2 as my sabre 2 just does not do it for me. I am thinking of if anyone has flown a safire 2 as well as a stiletto could tell me what they found between the 2 of them. I have only flown the safire2 139 but will probably buy the 129. I have not had a chance to fly a stiletto so before buying another new canopy would love to hear others findings. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bandanarama 0 #2 August 24, 2005 I haven't flown a stiletto but the safire 2 is closest in flight characteristics to a sabre 2. Just look at http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/stiletto.pdf for a comparison of the stiletto vs. the sabre 2 and you can get a good idea of the differences. I'm definitely far from being a seasoned veteran but I love my Safire 2 and I have yet to see or hear anyone else make any negative comments about their Safire 2 either. BTW, you might want to post your jump numbers so those people with stiletto experience will feel more comfortable recommending anything. Good luck with your canopy selection! Eric ___________________________________________________ One's destination is never a place, but rather a new way of looking at things. ~ Henry Miller Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fab 0 #3 August 24, 2005 What don't you like about the sabre2? I just demoed a sabre2 150 and I now find my pilot 168 really boring/slow so I'm thinking about buyin a new chute. I was thinking about the safire2 too but there haven't found a demo yet. What are your opinions about the sabre2 and safire2? _______________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #4 August 24, 2005 I've only got a couple jumps on the Sabre 2, couple jumps on the Pilot, and I now own a Safire 2.... Get demos, but I'll say I -LOVE- my Safire 2... It's a fun canopy, nice openings, glides hella far, ... I just love it, get a demo FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spoons 0 #5 August 24, 2005 safire2 is in a different league to a stiletto surely?! Jumped a safire2, safire, and a sabre2 and i would have to say the sabre2 is definitely the best of the 3 - in my opinion I feel the safire2 and safire lack that huge amount of power the sabre2 has in throughout it's flare. I also found the safire2 139 to be considerably slower than a sabre2 135 - both in dives and full drive. The safire2 probably opens slower than the sabre2, but the sabre2 opens very nicely and also slow enough to make me like it a lot more than my safire 149 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DancingFlame 0 #6 August 24, 2005 QuoteI feel the safire2 and safire lack that huge amount of power the sabre2 has in throughout it's flare. No, they don't lack flare power. It was you not using it. I know a lot of people that got used to PD-style flare (just about shoulders level). Icarus-style is completely different and real flare power starts when your arms are significally lower. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #7 August 24, 2005 QuoteI feel the safire2 and safire lack that huge amount of power the sabre2 has in throughout it's flare. did you fly the safire all the way ?? Or did you fly it like Dancingflame said ?? Love my Icarus'sscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #8 August 24, 2005 Really??? The 150 made the 168 feel slow??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gandhi 0 #9 August 24, 2005 sabre2 and saffire 2 are in the same league, general purpose all round canopies if you like... at higher wingloads, the tapering makes it fairly high performance. the stilleto is a hp eliptical, it dives as soon as your hands go near the toggles... its very nice but its fairly dated, i demoed one and i also demoed the crossfire2... i'd take the crossfire2 anytime as it has the performance of the stilletto and all the creases in the stilletto have been ironed out... but be aware that they both will demand a hell of a lot more respect in the air than a sabre/saffire/pilot... on the fully eliptical but slightly lower performance front there is also the vision from aerodyne.... enjoy them!! quote 'you are to go around... next time extend your landing gear' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigway 4 #10 August 24, 2005 Thank you mate, that was the reply i was looking for. Fab, the sabre 2 has nothing on the Safire 2. i cant imagine why the 150 would make the 168 feel slow! Kind of like my sabre2 150 feels slow now i have been jumping the safire 2 139. I find the safire 2 has no toggle pressure compared to the sabre 2 and the safire 2 has a nice glide angle. Is the stiletto in a different league thatn the Safire2? .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Peej 0 #11 August 24, 2005 I've flown the Safire 2, the Sabre 2 and the Pilot (all 150's) and must say that i found the Safire 2 to be my favourite. I found the riser pressure was much lighter and i loved the way it opened. I'd say the Stiletto and the Safire 2 aren't so much in different leauges as they're in different categories. One's fully elliptical and the other is slightly tapered. That being said, I haven't flown the Stiletto but i have done a lot of jumps on a Nitron 150 and 135 and would recommend you try and demo that too. i loved the way it dives and for a fully ellipticl canopy it's super stble for wing suit flight. Hope that helps. Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #12 August 24, 2005 QuoteI feel the safire2 and safire lack that huge amount of power I know exactly how you feel. I'm so much shorter when I sit down. It must be the chair's fault. If some PD jumpers only learned to feel what the wing was telling them, instead of mechanically doing what they usually do, they'd land a lot better on a wider range of canopies - including their reserves. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,394 #13 August 24, 2005 >Really??? The 150 made the 168 feel slow??? That's going to be true of almost any 150 vs any 170. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #14 August 24, 2005 um... hence the really shocked face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Fab 0 #15 August 24, 2005 ..funny... _______________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites spoons 0 #16 August 25, 2005 hey come on now, it's pretty obvious - i didn't say it was a problem...i like my safire 149! I just feel that the sabre2 had more flare available at the end of a swoop...my safire tends to just stop flying whilst i've still got a lot of forward speed and wouldn't mind having a little extra lift. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites spoons 0 #17 August 25, 2005 I swoop my safire and yes i do use all the toggle stroke that it has in my landing and no it doesn't have that extra little bit of power to pop up at the end of a swoop like a sabre2 does. Just my opinion but please don't instantly become aggressive when i say that i find one canopy better for me than the other! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #18 August 25, 2005 Read the thread title. Does it say ANYTHING about the Sabre 2? Popping up at the end of a swoop is optional. As with any wing, to get lift you need airspeed. If you put on the brake when there is no airspeed left, you will not pop up. This is your error, not the canopies. Pics attached are a conservative landing (I'm wearing a wingsuit) at 5000ft AMSL loaded to about 1.7 on my Safire 109. I'm using the full toggle range on the flare. Incidently, my current AFF canopy is a Stilleto 107 - so I'm familiar with the charecteristics of both canopies, but have only about 400 landings on Safire 1's as opposed to about double that on my Stilleto. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites spoons 0 #19 August 25, 2005 The thread title may not mention a sabre2 but most people don't type their entire post in the title and try to leave the majority for the main body. My reason for comparing the safire2 to a sabre2 is quite obvious really - i've jumped them both and bigway currently jumps a sabre2. Surely comparing the safire2 to something he already owns make things quite a bit easier to comprehend? From your earlier post you presume I'm a 'PD jumper'. For the last 100 jumps I've jumped a Safire so I certainly don't fit this label I'm glad you like your safire so much that you feel the need to react to a new comer (to posting) on the forums like this. I should have learnt from my past experience, posting on these forums, that expressing any opinion on any matter generally results in a response similar to yours. I've learnt my lesson...I must be a terrible skydiver and my canopy piloting skills are atrocious - there is no feasible way that a sabre2 could possibly have more lift than a safire... I must be wrong. I'll just take a step back and not share my opinion or limited experience; until I too have thousands of jumps, infinite knowledge and most importantly...always right Alan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mattjw916 2 #20 August 25, 2005 Slow your roll there dude, you really have to not take comments so personally here. I jump a Safire too and like Tonto said, the majority of the flare is at the bottom of the toggle stroke, not up around your ears like a Sabre 2. Does that mean the Safire has "no flare"? Nope, it means that each canopy is trimmed differently and both can be swooped and landed well once the pilot learns to "feel" the canopy as Tonto put it. Flaring should not be a "muscle memory" thing, it should be more akin to pushing on the brakes in your car. You don't hit the brakes as hard or as fast when driving different models of cars since they each have a different "feel".NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites spoons 0 #21 August 25, 2005 got a bit worked up I know i took the comments a little personally, but didn't tonto as well? The mere thought i might be saying a slightly bad word against a safire. I was only trying to help someone by sharing my experience. I am aware of where the flare is on my safire and also of that on a sabre2. I never said the safire had 'no flare'...only that I found the sabre2 had more. Maybe it's better suited to my flying style, but after 100 jumps (yes oh so few Anyway, my plan is to leave it at here - I'm off to the pub Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigway 4 #22 August 25, 2005 QuoteMy reason for comparing the safire2 to a sabre2 is quite obvious really - i've jumped them both and bigway currently jumps a sabre2. Surely comparing the safire2 to something he already owns make things quite a bit easier to comprehend? Just to work you up even more, as my first post says i too jump as safire 2 as well as a sabre2, i just want someone to compare the safire 2 to the stiletto. Thanks for your enthusiasm though, shame you dont jump a stiletto .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites spoons 0 #23 August 25, 2005 lol, i give up - wish i'd never even started! didn't want to go elliptical for ages and ages yet - not until i'm loading over 1.6. ah the dreams anyway, now i'm off to the pub...earlier was false alarm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigway 4 #24 August 25, 2005 cheers mate .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DancingFlame 0 #25 August 26, 2005 Quote I'm pretty sure i can land my safire quite well, and by no means is it a muscle memory thing - always dynamic and adjusting depending on what's happening and how the canopy is reacting. Oh, yeah. You can land your canopy fine. But author of this thread would like to swoop a little. Don't you see any difference? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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DancingFlame 0 #6 August 24, 2005 QuoteI feel the safire2 and safire lack that huge amount of power the sabre2 has in throughout it's flare. No, they don't lack flare power. It was you not using it. I know a lot of people that got used to PD-style flare (just about shoulders level). Icarus-style is completely different and real flare power starts when your arms are significally lower. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #7 August 24, 2005 QuoteI feel the safire2 and safire lack that huge amount of power the sabre2 has in throughout it's flare. did you fly the safire all the way ?? Or did you fly it like Dancingflame said ?? Love my Icarus'sscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #8 August 24, 2005 Really??? The 150 made the 168 feel slow??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gandhi 0 #9 August 24, 2005 sabre2 and saffire 2 are in the same league, general purpose all round canopies if you like... at higher wingloads, the tapering makes it fairly high performance. the stilleto is a hp eliptical, it dives as soon as your hands go near the toggles... its very nice but its fairly dated, i demoed one and i also demoed the crossfire2... i'd take the crossfire2 anytime as it has the performance of the stilletto and all the creases in the stilletto have been ironed out... but be aware that they both will demand a hell of a lot more respect in the air than a sabre/saffire/pilot... on the fully eliptical but slightly lower performance front there is also the vision from aerodyne.... enjoy them!! quote 'you are to go around... next time extend your landing gear' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #10 August 24, 2005 Thank you mate, that was the reply i was looking for. Fab, the sabre 2 has nothing on the Safire 2. i cant imagine why the 150 would make the 168 feel slow! Kind of like my sabre2 150 feels slow now i have been jumping the safire 2 139. I find the safire 2 has no toggle pressure compared to the sabre 2 and the safire 2 has a nice glide angle. Is the stiletto in a different league thatn the Safire2? .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #11 August 24, 2005 I've flown the Safire 2, the Sabre 2 and the Pilot (all 150's) and must say that i found the Safire 2 to be my favourite. I found the riser pressure was much lighter and i loved the way it opened. I'd say the Stiletto and the Safire 2 aren't so much in different leauges as they're in different categories. One's fully elliptical and the other is slightly tapered. That being said, I haven't flown the Stiletto but i have done a lot of jumps on a Nitron 150 and 135 and would recommend you try and demo that too. i loved the way it dives and for a fully ellipticl canopy it's super stble for wing suit flight. Hope that helps. Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #12 August 24, 2005 QuoteI feel the safire2 and safire lack that huge amount of power I know exactly how you feel. I'm so much shorter when I sit down. It must be the chair's fault. If some PD jumpers only learned to feel what the wing was telling them, instead of mechanically doing what they usually do, they'd land a lot better on a wider range of canopies - including their reserves. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,394 #13 August 24, 2005 >Really??? The 150 made the 168 feel slow??? That's going to be true of almost any 150 vs any 170. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #14 August 24, 2005 um... hence the really shocked face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fab 0 #15 August 24, 2005 ..funny... _______________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spoons 0 #16 August 25, 2005 hey come on now, it's pretty obvious - i didn't say it was a problem...i like my safire 149! I just feel that the sabre2 had more flare available at the end of a swoop...my safire tends to just stop flying whilst i've still got a lot of forward speed and wouldn't mind having a little extra lift. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spoons 0 #17 August 25, 2005 I swoop my safire and yes i do use all the toggle stroke that it has in my landing and no it doesn't have that extra little bit of power to pop up at the end of a swoop like a sabre2 does. Just my opinion but please don't instantly become aggressive when i say that i find one canopy better for me than the other! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #18 August 25, 2005 Read the thread title. Does it say ANYTHING about the Sabre 2? Popping up at the end of a swoop is optional. As with any wing, to get lift you need airspeed. If you put on the brake when there is no airspeed left, you will not pop up. This is your error, not the canopies. Pics attached are a conservative landing (I'm wearing a wingsuit) at 5000ft AMSL loaded to about 1.7 on my Safire 109. I'm using the full toggle range on the flare. Incidently, my current AFF canopy is a Stilleto 107 - so I'm familiar with the charecteristics of both canopies, but have only about 400 landings on Safire 1's as opposed to about double that on my Stilleto. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spoons 0 #19 August 25, 2005 The thread title may not mention a sabre2 but most people don't type their entire post in the title and try to leave the majority for the main body. My reason for comparing the safire2 to a sabre2 is quite obvious really - i've jumped them both and bigway currently jumps a sabre2. Surely comparing the safire2 to something he already owns make things quite a bit easier to comprehend? From your earlier post you presume I'm a 'PD jumper'. For the last 100 jumps I've jumped a Safire so I certainly don't fit this label I'm glad you like your safire so much that you feel the need to react to a new comer (to posting) on the forums like this. I should have learnt from my past experience, posting on these forums, that expressing any opinion on any matter generally results in a response similar to yours. I've learnt my lesson...I must be a terrible skydiver and my canopy piloting skills are atrocious - there is no feasible way that a sabre2 could possibly have more lift than a safire... I must be wrong. I'll just take a step back and not share my opinion or limited experience; until I too have thousands of jumps, infinite knowledge and most importantly...always right Alan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #20 August 25, 2005 Slow your roll there dude, you really have to not take comments so personally here. I jump a Safire too and like Tonto said, the majority of the flare is at the bottom of the toggle stroke, not up around your ears like a Sabre 2. Does that mean the Safire has "no flare"? Nope, it means that each canopy is trimmed differently and both can be swooped and landed well once the pilot learns to "feel" the canopy as Tonto put it. Flaring should not be a "muscle memory" thing, it should be more akin to pushing on the brakes in your car. You don't hit the brakes as hard or as fast when driving different models of cars since they each have a different "feel".NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spoons 0 #21 August 25, 2005 got a bit worked up I know i took the comments a little personally, but didn't tonto as well? The mere thought i might be saying a slightly bad word against a safire. I was only trying to help someone by sharing my experience. I am aware of where the flare is on my safire and also of that on a sabre2. I never said the safire had 'no flare'...only that I found the sabre2 had more. Maybe it's better suited to my flying style, but after 100 jumps (yes oh so few Anyway, my plan is to leave it at here - I'm off to the pub Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigway 4 #22 August 25, 2005 QuoteMy reason for comparing the safire2 to a sabre2 is quite obvious really - i've jumped them both and bigway currently jumps a sabre2. Surely comparing the safire2 to something he already owns make things quite a bit easier to comprehend? Just to work you up even more, as my first post says i too jump as safire 2 as well as a sabre2, i just want someone to compare the safire 2 to the stiletto. Thanks for your enthusiasm though, shame you dont jump a stiletto .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites spoons 0 #23 August 25, 2005 lol, i give up - wish i'd never even started! didn't want to go elliptical for ages and ages yet - not until i'm loading over 1.6. ah the dreams anyway, now i'm off to the pub...earlier was false alarm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigway 4 #24 August 25, 2005 cheers mate .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DancingFlame 0 #25 August 26, 2005 Quote I'm pretty sure i can land my safire quite well, and by no means is it a muscle memory thing - always dynamic and adjusting depending on what's happening and how the canopy is reacting. Oh, yeah. You can land your canopy fine. But author of this thread would like to swoop a little. Don't you see any difference? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
bigway 4 #22 August 25, 2005 QuoteMy reason for comparing the safire2 to a sabre2 is quite obvious really - i've jumped them both and bigway currently jumps a sabre2. Surely comparing the safire2 to something he already owns make things quite a bit easier to comprehend? Just to work you up even more, as my first post says i too jump as safire 2 as well as a sabre2, i just want someone to compare the safire 2 to the stiletto. Thanks for your enthusiasm though, shame you dont jump a stiletto .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spoons 0 #23 August 25, 2005 lol, i give up - wish i'd never even started! didn't want to go elliptical for ages and ages yet - not until i'm loading over 1.6. ah the dreams anyway, now i'm off to the pub...earlier was false alarm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigway 4 #24 August 25, 2005 cheers mate .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DancingFlame 0 #25 August 26, 2005 Quote I'm pretty sure i can land my safire quite well, and by no means is it a muscle memory thing - always dynamic and adjusting depending on what's happening and how the canopy is reacting. Oh, yeah. You can land your canopy fine. But author of this thread would like to swoop a little. Don't you see any difference? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
bigway 4 #24 August 25, 2005 cheers mate .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DancingFlame 0 #25 August 26, 2005 Quote I'm pretty sure i can land my safire quite well, and by no means is it a muscle memory thing - always dynamic and adjusting depending on what's happening and how the canopy is reacting. Oh, yeah. You can land your canopy fine. But author of this thread would like to swoop a little. Don't you see any difference? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
