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blackdog

If you borrow a canopy and damage it

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Roger that. Or at least repair to "as issued" condition.

I guess when such a topic is brought up it is because a situation has arisen where this is not the case. But I would figure that as a whole the skydiving community understands how valuable to us our skydiving gear is (rightly so) and also understands the trust that comes with loaning our gear to others. Any skydiver who doesn't understand this will have a long difficult road ahead of them in the sport...

Elvisio "I have met one or two though..." Rodriguez

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I think if I could get it done in anyway financially, I would actually buy the canopy to the price it was worth before I fucked it up and give them cash.
Having it patched makes it lose lots of value so I wouldn't feel that that would be fair.

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>I can't believe there are people out there who would think it's okay to NOT
>pay for or replace something they damaged whether it's skydiving or not.

It all depends on what your arrangement is. If the agreement is "use it however you like; I don't care what you do with it" then there's no problem damaging stuff. If the agreement is normal wear and tear is OK, then that means that the usual wear that you see during canopy use is OK. If the agreement is "return it exactly as I gave it to you" I wouldn't borrow it, because I can't ensure that. Canopies wear.

But the key is to talk about this BEFORE lending/borrowing gear, to help prevent misunderstandings. A classic case -

You really need a canopy. Your friend has an old Nova. He says "well, it's very very old, and it's pretty fragile. I don't jump it any more and I was just going to throw it out, but if you want to use it, OK. Just be careful!"

You say "OK, thanks, I'll be careful."

You make 4 jumps on it and it blows a seam. You return it and he is indignant and wants it repaired.

"But you said you were going to throw it out! And I checked - no one will work on a Nova any more."

"Then I want a new Blade! You broke it; you owe me."

(And yes, I've seen stuff like that happen.)

The key there is to find out what his expectations are _before_ borrowing it.

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Just as I got off student status, my friend loned to me his spare container+reserve. It was in great condition, not a scratch on it -- few of my ass landings later, that wasn't the case anymore.

As a result, I offered to buy it from him (which he accepted). If someone damages something of mine, I'd expect he/she to fix/replace it; I just simply don't see an alternative ...

O

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First things first!! When you borrow anything to anyone, state (clearly and firmly) the terms.

i.e. "You’re welcome to borrow it. However, if you break it you own it!" If you can't afford to replace it, you probably shouldn't be borrowing it. It’s worth about $750.00 so be careful.

Then when something does happen, you’re covered. If you want this to stand up in court, get it in writing.

That being said, by all means if you break something you should "buck-up" and take responsibility for it.
Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

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What is the opinion of the group if someone borrows a canopy, damages it extensively and returns it. Would you offer to replace, repair or tell them they are SOL?



Damaging a canopy extensively? Why would you even attempt to return it ? Bite the bullet and buy a new one for the owner and chalk it down as a lesson. Anything other than that is right down rude!
Y yo, pa' vivir con miedo, prefiero morir sonriendo, con el recuerdo vivo".
- Ruben Blades, "Adan Garcia"

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The offer needs to be made to replace it with something of a comparable value. It's up to the owner to decline the offer or to accept a repair.

Telling someone they are SOL is just rude and means your mama didn't raise you right. :P

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

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I borrow my gear quite frequently (I'm not one of the weirdos who are crazy worried about it. Scratches etc. just happen) but I only borrow it to people of which I know that if they fuck it up they pay for it. If I thought I'd even have to mention that, they wouldn't get my gear.

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You clearly have a specific scenario in mind. Please tell us what it is so we can mediate.

Of course, we will also give you 13 different opinions, 8 bad analogies, call each other asshats, and turn it into a gun thread.



I love the word asshat. I was just an innocent bystander to a situation thats all ;) Made me think twice about whether or not I would loan gear. Starting to think I won't without a 'you break you buy' talk

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I lend gear out often. But I always make sure that the people know what the cost of the gear is, and that I may expect them to buy the gear from me if they fuck it up, rather than repair it - AT MY DISCRETION. If they tell me they cannot afford it, I simply tell them that than they cannot afford to jump it either.

Every situation is different...

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You really need a canopy. Your friend has an old Nova....



Friends don't let friends jump Novas.
:D:D:o


Nova = no go. Am I right? :D:ph34r:


that was true for the car but I love my Nova canopy
Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

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A similar situation happened to me when I was a beginner jumper. I was borrowing an old PD 9-cell (big square F111 canopy to those thinking "sabre). The jumper said he was thinking about selling it, but was thinking that it may not be airworthy. The left stabilizer ripped apart on opening. My rigger checked the canopy after that and the fabric ripped apart at the tail (center cell) and the bridle attachment. The jumper wanted the canopy replaced even though he had said he thought it might be unairworthy (shame on me for jumping it in the first place).

A compromise was worked out and everyone left happy. Its all about just talking it out and coming to an agreement.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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