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kallend

$300 to change spark plugs!

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>So, the extra work is due to making cars more efficient, and "reducing the
>carbon footprint."

And giving them bigger air conditioners, and putting in a "HEPA air filter" for sensitive noses, and putting in the bigger alternator to run the DVD video system for the kids, and making the car "look faster" by tweaking the front end design.

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and putting in the bigger alternator to run the DVD video system for the kids



OK, so for me I draw the line here. Am I the only one who finds TVs & DVD systems in cars, silly?

My best friend (my baby-godson's mama) does not have such a system in her Mercedes. She did mention having to sing "eee-yi, eee-yi oh" most of the way home from visiting us, though. :D
Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

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I teach auto shop... I tell parents what some mechanics make when they give me the...
"My kid is going to be a Doctor/Lawyer!!! Not some grease monkey auto mechanic."

The fact of the matter is, auto mechanics today are highly paid well trained specialists. Not all are out to rip you off, but they will charge for their services.

Some of my former students work in the area. They're making a good living. They've graduated from good tech schools like Wyo Tech, Dunwoody, UTI and the like. Very expensive and challenging. So, they're able to work on your "High Tech" vehicle. Be glad they became a mechanic.

If you can't do it yourself, shut up and pay the man!!!!

... or, walk!
Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

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>not to mention most of the anti pollution devices added to cars wind up making
>most of the less fuel efficient.

Fuel injection - increases efficiency
Catalytic converter - does not reduce or increase efficiency (assuming it's not plugged etc.)
Stochiometric combustion system (oxygen sensor/computer) - increases efficiency
Vapor recovery system - increases efficiency
Idle shutoff - increases efficiency
Cylinder shutdown - increases efficiency
CVCC/stratified charge system - increases efficiency
EGR - increases efficiency

Which anti pollution devices were you referring to?

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SMOG pump



Good question? look at this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_air_injection

Original smog pumps decreased perfomance in that the pump was run by the engine. I believe the newer designs are a wash.

One more example of why your paying so much for todays well trained (hopefully) auto mechs. These guys need to have knowlege and skills!! If you can't change the plugs yourself, Shut up and pay the Man!!
Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

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>SMOG pump

The "smog pump" (air injector) was a separate device that ran on a belt, and was used in 1960 and 1970 era cars that had carburetors. Nowadays, vehicles that require air injection do so via an aspirator valve, a device that sucks air in during negative-pressure pulses in the exhaust stream. This does not affect efficiency since it does not require any power to operate. As far as I know only motorcycles use them nowadays; cars use stochiometric ratio control to accomplish what the smog pump used to.

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SMOG pump



With older generation (carburetor) engines, there was lots of unburned fuel in the exhaust, so the "smog pump" of the 60's and 70's ran all the time, injecting air into the exhaust to burn that fuel.

On modern engines, the AIR system only runs at cold startup for about a minute, to speed up the time for the catalytic converter to come up to operating temperature. Adds cost, but no real effect on efficiency.

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John and Kallend
Having also restored a vehicle built in the halcyon days of the British motor industry (MGA Twincam) I bow my head to you, for you two also know why the British motor industry is no more and that there are more painful and pointless things to do than banging your head into a brick wall.:ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

That said, they sure are pretty cars:)
Billy....MGA
Old, check
Carburettors, check
Space.......ummmmm nope!



Pics of mine HERE.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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SMOG pump



Good question? look at this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_air_injection

Original smog pumps decreased perfomance in that the pump was run by the engine. I believe the newer designs are a wash.

One more example of why your paying so much for todays well trained (hopefully) auto mechs. These guys need to have knowlege and skills!! If you can't change the plugs yourself, Shut up and pay the Man!!


I am one of those "WELL PAID" dealership auto technicians. I got to tell you, If I was not making the money I am making, you guys would be left with some $10 an hour techs that are not even worth that much money. It is me, that is able to teach them to help keep the cost's down. $300 bucks for plugs for most v6 engines these days is not a bad deal. if you dont like it, do it yourself. it is like having one of those $10 an hour techs doing it without the supervision of somone like me.

when you fuck it up, come see me, I will charge you 3X as much to fix your fuckup.;) unelss, of course, your Thanatos340, then I will just stop by your house and tell you your being a paranoid bitch and that you should make me a sammich!

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$300 bucks for plugs for most v6 engines these days is not a bad deal.



If they are readily accessible, it is not a good deal. If they are not, it is a bad deal, but it is the fault of the manufacturer, not the service tech.


most are not nowadays. give me the make, model, and engine size and I will look it up on ALLDATA. if you do not know what ALLDATA is, it is just another of one of those services I have to pay for along with the $150,000 of tools I have.:P

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John and Kallend
Having also restored a vehicle built in the halcyon days of the British motor industry (MGA Twincam) I bow my head to you, for you two also know why the British motor industry is no more and that there are more painful and pointless things to do than banging your head into a brick wall.:ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

That said, they sure are pretty cars:)
Billy....MGA
Old, check
Carburettors, check
Space.......ummmmm nope!



Pics of mine HERE.


Now THAT is beautiful....very nicely done:)


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And that's just labor, the plugs are extra.

Jeez!



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It costs $15000.00 a year to go to college! come on John B|B|

The emision controls and gas milage requirements make the designs of todays engines very difficult to work on and the new stuff (thanks partially to Obama's new reqirements) will make it even harder to work on. Get out the credit cards car repairs are going to get alot more expensive.

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>not to mention most of the anti pollution devices added to cars wind up making
>most of the less fuel efficient.

Fuel injection - increases efficiency
Catalytic converter - does not reduce or increase efficiency (assuming it's not plugged etc.)
Stochiometric combustion system (oxygen sensor/computer) - increases efficiency
Vapor recovery system - increases efficiency
Idle shutoff - increases efficiency
Cylinder shutdown - increases efficiency
CVCC/stratified charge system - increases efficiency
EGR - increases efficiency

Which anti pollution devices were you referring to?



Diesels can easily get about 20% better fuel milage by just adjusting the fuel control, unfortunately the nox emission skyrockets. cars have similar issues, getting better gas milage is not so hard, meeting emission ratings is.

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>The emision controls and gas milage requirements make the designs
>of todays engines very difficult to work on . . .

. . . and much cleaner, faster, efficient and reliable. Not a bad tradeoff.

(BTW no problem talking about cars, but please keep the political stuff in Speaker's.)

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>Diesels can easily get about 20% better fuel milage by just adjusting the fuel control . . .

Agreed. In diesels, the fuel control is the gas pedal. Take your foot off the gas pedal and your mileage will indeed increase. Or drive with a lead foot and waste fuel. Your choice.

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And that's just labor, the plugs are extra.

Jeez![/reply
Hi John,
You're,"That Guy!!" The one in the radio add that paid someone $30 to put water in his winshield washer tank and replace his wiper blades!! Ditch your what ever and get an old 60's era Volkswagen Beetle or Van!! Also find a "How to keep your Volkswagen alive for the complete idiot!!" Manual by John Muir. Change the oil, adjust the valves, change the plugs, install and adjust the points, you'll be a "Bugwhiz" in no time!! I don't know what VW plugs go for these daze, last time I bought any for my VW the set was less than 5 bucks. The tire tool is also the plug wrench!! What, you don't know how to change a tire?? Roll up yer' sleeves and get greasy!!

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

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