Snowwhite 0 #26 November 12, 2009 When you go to court, you are spending the judges time. Even he finds you guilty at that point, he may have no humor and find no reason to let you do traffic court, since you have wasted time in his court. I think I would call his clerk and ask HER if she had ever seen him be lenient after someone wasted his time. I'm in Illinois, other side of the State, population of my town about 45k. Our cops do the court thing religiously. Pay the $115, take the class. You'll save money on your insurance for the next three years, and not piss off the judge.skydiveTaylorville.org [email protected] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowwhite 0 #27 November 12, 2009 Hey Mark, while I was posting my response, you posted yours. Yours is much better! I miss your biplane! Oh yea, I miss you too!skydiveTaylorville.org [email protected] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #28 November 12, 2009 QuoteIn the end, I opted to go to court - only because I'm almost certain that traffic school is still an option. The court date is set on 12/30/09; from 10/26/09 to 12/30/09 is a lot of time - the cop might not even show up, or forget some details. I'm trying my damnedest not to have to pay the city my hard earned money (which I don't have much of!) If the cop shows up, and you don't have a strategy to discredit his evidence, then ask the judge if withholding judication is an option. Since you don't have a record it shouldn't be a stretch for him to consider that. What you're asking him is if he'll withhold judgment against you for a year. If you get nicked for a ticket again within that year, you get both thrown at you. If not, the ticket drops. I think you'll end up paying If you can, take the time to learn the laws. Is the cop required to provide certification beyond his use of the RADAR or LIDAR? Was the measurement taken from an aircraft? Does he have to provide a traffic and engineering survey for the road he was on? If he wasn't a state cop, on an interstate, did he have jurisdiction under state law? Speeding tickets are about revenue most of the time. We've all been in environments where a posted limit makes no logical sense what-so-ever. 50 in a 25 is fairly steep however...but I've been in places where it was a two lane divided road with low limits as well.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RALFFERS 0 #29 November 12, 2009 Quote Having reviewed this thread... I am going to step up to the plate and post a response. First I AM a cop in Illinois and before the cop haters out there starting spewing epiphets including my name, I will remind you I am also the biplane dude from Skyfest, Summerfest and Couchfreaks (www.invertedair.com). Hopefully that will pursuade most of you out there to realize that I'm not the usual cop prick (and yes I am aware most of us ARE pricks). There's a ton of variables in this basic question and you didn't say whether you were written a citation for state statute or for a local ordinance or what department you were written by. I'm going to assume for the purpose of this answer, that you were written for a violation of state statute (IVC) and by a local department. Okay.. reviewing your question it appears you're wanting the best of both worlds. You want to take your shot at a jury trial and if it doesn't work out... take the deal the States Attorney will be offering before trial. I'll give yah kind of a heads up on how the dealing works (at least in our county). First, the assistant states attorney will provide you the opportunity to take a plea arrangement for a higher fine and the ticket will remain "off the record" so to speak. What they are telling you is that the citation will be on record at the Secretary of State on your abstract but will not be viewable by an insurance agency unless you violate the terms of the plea agreement. Usually the plea includes the higher fine (anywhere from 115 to 175) and no further violations within a specified period of time (anywhere from 30 days to usually 6 mos). In counties where school is available, they usually include some sort of driving school as part of the plea arrangement. They offer you the plea for a few reasons 1) to give you an incentive to plead guilty, 2) not clog up the court with a trial and 3) not waste the time of the states attorney, the judge and a jury for something that is a 75 dollar judgement. If you don't take the plea and want a trial, the state has to perform a trial. If the officer is not there, the state has the right to request a continuance (usually a month) to allow appropriate time for them to subpeona the officer or issue a notice for appearance or get him off the street into court. In this county, if it's the cops day off they most likely will dismiss the ticket but that's our department and our courts. Some departments require the officer to be there and they are paid to be there. It's kind of a crap shoot on that one because each department / county court have their own guidelines regarding officer appearances. Okay, so the officer is available and present. The state will now move on to trial. This includes paneling a jury (I believe it's only 6 or 8 jurist instead of 12) each being paid by the state the incredible sum of 28 bucks to be there for the day and having the officer appear (also costing money). A trial will be conducted and you will have the opportunity to provide your evidence. Based on what i read in your original post, it sounded like you probably were speeding so most likely you won't have any evidence to provide unless you perjur yourself. The state will provide their evidence and you can question the evidence just like what you see on TV. If you are found guilty (and you have a 50/50 shot of winning) you will be sentenced. You will not have the option of taking the original plea deal. Oh by the way, did I mention that anything with a 75 dollar "bond" is considered a petty offense punishable by a 750 dollar fine. If you requested a jury trial, the states attorney will request a fine that includes the fees associated with empanelling the jury, the overtime of the cop and the time used by the state and the judge to put on the trial (Generally 300 or more). It's a crap shoot on what the judge might give you for a sentence. I guess this is the long winded way of saying.... Take option B.... What does that mean??? And is it only if I request a jury trial???Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself - "from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowwhite 0 #30 November 12, 2009 Oh by the way, did I mention that anything with a 75 dollar "bond" is considered a petty offense punishable by a 750 dollar fine. I guess this is the long winded way of saying.... Take option B.... What does that mean??? And is it only if I request a jury trial??? It means States Atty's, cops, jurys and judges all cost money. If you waste a judges time, it pisses him off, and he can and may charge you up to $750 bucks if he finds you guilty.skydiveTaylorville.org [email protected] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RALFFERS 0 #31 November 12, 2009 Quote Oh by the way, did I mention that anything with a 75 dollar "bond" is considered a petty offense punishable by a 750 dollar fine. I guess this is the long winded way of saying.... Take option B.... What does that mean??? And is it only if I request a jury trial??? It means States Atty's, cops, jurys and judges all cost money. If you waste a judges time, it pisses him off, and he can and may charge you up to $750 bucks if he finds you guilty........great......... Now a really regret taking option C. If I say I'm guilty in court though...that takes all of 2 minutes, I hope he doesn't get pssed off over 2 minutes. I can try to tell the judge that the reason I chose option C is that it gives me more time to come up with the money If I am found guilty (this is true by the way). I'm not a criminal, & this is only a speeding ticket. if I'm ordered to pay $750 than that's just wrong.Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself - "from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
biplane_dude 0 #32 November 12, 2009 You obviously haven't dealt with any judges have you? Just think of them as someone who is WAY too important to listen to your insignificant traffic case because he is waiting for his appointment to the appelate court, retirement or running late for his luncheon with someone WAY more important than you. Wait... did I say that out loud? Damn..Life's the Pitts then you jump one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
biplane_dude 0 #33 November 12, 2009 Yeah... I have to admit... I really missed not having anything to do this summer. The Pitts just made it out of the hangar yesterday...and it's on it's way to Florida. I'll have to tell yah the whole story on that one sometime soon. I was working on a deal for a Stearman but it fell through for a variety of reasons. Miss you to dear. I saw Dave just made his first jump since the hospital. GOOD FOR HIM...!!!! Damn.. tough deal but I'm glad to hear he's coming back.Life's the Pitts then you jump one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RALFFERS 0 #34 November 12, 2009 QuoteYou obviously haven't dealt with any judges have you? Just think of them as someone who is WAY too important to listen to your insignificant traffic case because he is waiting for his appointment to the appelate court, retirement or running late for his luncheon with someone WAY more important than you. Wait... did I say that out loud? Damn.. Well. like I said, I haven't stood in front of a judge in 10 years. The 1 & only ticket I got was marked "must appear" (it was for going 69 in a 35). I paid the $115 fine, & the judge said that as long as I didn't get another ticket in 4 months that nothing would go on my record. This ticket is for going 51 in a 35 (it was a 2 lane [open] road in each direction. I just hope they don't nail me with $750. That really seems much too harsh.Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself - "from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RALFFERS 0 #35 November 12, 2009 I stood in front of the judge in for a friend's speeding ticket once, & once because my mom parked in a handicap spot (dhe has a placard), but a portion of her car was in the striped section, so she got the ticket anyway. So , no, I don't have much experience with judges, but all 3 times I stood in front of one they were nice people.Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself - "from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowwhite 0 #36 November 12, 2009 The only time I ever stood in front of a judge was the day I adopted my daughter and he was making it final. WHAT A GREAT GUY! Streaker and I have been happy with that court date almost all of the 30 years we have had her.skydiveTaylorville.org [email protected] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #37 November 12, 2009 Quote Quote In Texas you can have a Bench Trial, which just involves the prosecutor, the judge and the cop or you can have a jury trial. Typically the judges don't like it when someone shows up and nit picks details when the elements of the crime has been established. The juries like it even less. I'll listen to Twardo's advice than, & NOT move to Texas... If ya listened to my advice...you'd be driving a MUCH faster car, and wouldn't have gotten the ticket in the first place! One of these days you're gonna figure out, all that time you spend in the basement playin' G.T.A. is actually simulator training!~! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
