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RALFFERS

Any Illinois cops on here?

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First & foremost, I haven't posted on here in a very long time, so I should say hello.........hi :)
I have a question to anyone who's a cop, preferably from Illinois, but not necessarily... So it took 10 years, but I finally got a speeding ticket - I'm not really mad about it; my luck was bound to run out sometime. That's not to say that I'm not trying to get out of paying it in a legit manner... :ph34r:

The ticket was issued on 10/26/09 - at first I thought it had gotten lost in the system, because when I checked it online, it wasn't showing up - until today. My options are: A), plead guilty & pay $75 & let it go on my driving record. B), Plead guilty & pay $115, for 4 hour traffic school course to not have it go on my driving record. Or C), request a court date & hope the judge is merciful & lets it slide. The other thing about going to court is that if the cop that issued the ticket is not present, the ticket is dismissed no questions asked.

So my question is this - if I request a court date, & I'm still found guilty do I still have the option of paying the $115 & still being eligible for traffic school? or then do I only have the option of paying the $75 & let it go on my record? I hope that I still have the option of paying the $115.

I don't know if this means anything, but the one & only time I got a ticket 10 years ago, the judge made me pay the normal fine of the ticket & put me on 4 months probation - if I didn't get another ticket within those 4 months the ticket wasn't going on my record. No extra fees or traffic school were involved...
Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself -

"from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of

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I am not a cop, but option B seems the safest way to go. However, I did not chose similar option on my last speeding ticket (7 years ago, I think). I gambled by going to the court. I got out of it because the cop, who gave me the ticket, did not appear in the court. I gambled because I sized up the cop who gave me the ticket. He looks like the type who doesn't want to pull time off in order to go to the court. I gambled and I won. :ph34r:

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I'll Pay if I have to, but I'd much rather go to court & take my chances. What I'm trying to find out is - if I'm found guilty in court, could the judge still give me traffic school as an option? Either way ($75, or $115 + traffic school) the city is getting it's money.

I want to try going to court because i might not have to pay, & if I'm found guilty than I'll gladly pay for traffic school then. Question is, would that still be an option at that point?...
Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself -

"from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of

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In Indiana if you choose the court option you waive the deferment option. Once you chose court you no longer have that option. At court you pay ticket and it goes on record or get out of it. You will not have option of deferral at that point.
Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

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I'm not a cop so don't hold me to this. I do however have a bunch of experience in IL with speeding tickets. :P

I THINK you can go to court and request traffic school. I don't know if that has to be a guilty plea or not. However if you bother to hire a lawyer they will usually get you non-reporting probation without having to go to traffic school. Yeah it costs more but you get to skip the 4 hour traffic school and it still doesn't report. Usually with a deal a lawyer works out you have to not get busted for another 12 months for them to not report.

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Was the ticket issued using Lidar?
If so, check Google news, for a rash of recent tickets being tossed by courts.
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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Was the ticket issued using Lidar?
If so, check Google news, for a rash of recent tickets being tossed by courts.



How do I find out if it was issued using Lidar?
Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself -

"from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of

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I'm not a cop so don't hold me to this. I do however have a bunch of experience in IL with speeding tickets. :P

I THINK you can go to court and request traffic school. I don't know if that has to be a guilty plea or not. However if you bother to hire a lawyer they will usually get you non-reporting probation without having to go to traffic school. Yeah it costs more but you get to skip the 4 hour traffic school and it still doesn't report. Usually with a deal a lawyer works out you have to not get busted for another 12 months for them to not report.



Skitts - why hire a lawyer (expensive) and still have to not get busted in 12 months when you can just pay the hundred and something and be done with it? (Still can't get busted in a year). The 4 hour traffic school is an online thing and a joke and really easy to do. Hell I'd do it for you - I have done it a few times! ;)
Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

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Was the ticket issued using Lidar?
If so, check Google news, for a rash of recent tickets being tossed by courts.



Only in Chicago from what I can find and there is a mountain of case law where the LIDAR is accepted in court as a true and accurate device. This won't last long and I wouldn't count on it to stand up anywhere except this one court.

The LIDAR is the most accurate device that LEO use to verify speed. Understand that the devices are only used to verify the speed as estimated by the officer operating the device. A citation can be issued with out any other device being used besides the officer's own expert opinion. This has stood up in court and is due to the conditions of being certified as a radar and/or LIDAR operator.

So the moral of the story is, last time I got a speeding ticket, I did traffic school (called "defensive driving" in Texas).:D
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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In the end, I opted to go to court - only because I'm almost certain that traffic school is still an option. The court date is set on 12/30/09; from 10/26/09 to 12/30/09 is a lot of time - the cop might not even show up, or forget some details. I'm trying my damnedest not to have to pay the city my hard earned money (which I don't have much of!)
Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself -

"from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of

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the cop might not even show up



Good luck. Around here the cops are paid overtime to go to court AND get in serious trouble if they no-show.

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forget some details



Like the main elements of the crime that are noted on the citation? Like, time, place, vehicle, etc? Good luck again. You've been reading a lot from the "internet experts" of traffic court. I've been to traffic court probably 40 times or so and even the juries hate it when people try to get off a speeding ticket because the officer wrote blue instead of blue/green on for the car color or similar.;)

So good luck.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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I've gotten a few tickets in Illinois... when I lived there... which, thankfully, I don't anymore.... On each, I ponied up between 100-200 bucks for a lawyer. In EACH case, the tickets (speeding & no seatbelt) were reduced to NON-moving violations... In the end, I paid court costs/fine and the lawyer. However, I never had to attend traffic school AND, more importantly, the points never showed and thus my insurance rates didn't go up.

At the time... I was driving a Firebird.... which was a ticket magnet. In the 10 years prior to, and subsequently after owning that car, I have only received 1 ticket... which I ponied up to the lawyer and he got it tossed out. :)
I look at it like a game.... They (LEO/courts) need to make revenue... as long as they get their cut then they don't really give a shit if there's points assessed or not. YMMV

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

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They (LEO/courts) need to make revenue... as long as they get their cut then they don't really give a shit if there's points assessed or not.



Cut enough dead bodies out of cars, scoop enough brains off the pavement from someone that was riding a motorcycle and look at enough crushed heads from pedestrians that had been run over and you know that the revenue excuse is a fallacy; that and speed is a factor in literally 99% of the fatalities you work.

Most people refuse to agree or believe that they are somehow magically different and special compared to the rest of the population and that it won't be them. That and its not their fault. That is until it happens to them or to someone close to them.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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the cop might not even show up



Good luck. Around here the cops are paid overtime to go to court AND get in serious trouble if they no-show.

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forget some details



Like the main elements of the crime that are noted on the citation? Like, time, place, vehicle, etc? Good luck again. You've been reading a lot from the "internet experts" of traffic court. I've been to traffic court probably 40 times or so and even the juries hate it when people try to get off a speeding ticket because the officer wrote blue instead of blue/green on for the car color or similar.;)

So good luck.


JURIES???? :o:o Wow man, that's serious for something as minor as a speeding ticket! (Than again, this IS Texas that we're talking about...) Here that's unheard of; you simply stand in front of; you simply stand in front of the judge & he/she decides your fate.

The cops don't show up more often than not too.

If I'm found guilty, than I'm found guilty - I'll pay to go to traffic school, but then & only then. You can't blame me for trying to work the system to try to get off since it's setup the way it is.
Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself -

"from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of

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In Texas you can have a Bench Trial, which just involves the prosecutor, the judge and the cop or you can have a jury trial. Typically the judges don't like it when someone shows up and nit picks details when the elements of the crime has been established. The juries like it even less.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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In Texas you can have a Bench Trial, which just involves the prosecutor, the judge and the cop or you can have a jury trial. Typically the judges don't like it when someone shows up and nit picks details when the elements of the crime has been established. The juries like it even less.



I'll listen to Twardo's advice than, & NOT move to Texas...
Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself -

"from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of

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The bigger the city the ticket is from the better chance you have of getting off. The smaller......your gonna need alot of luck to get off;) I have sent plenty of ticket's to court and these are my finding's. Best of luck to you.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

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The bigger the city the ticket is from the better chance you have of getting off. The smaller......your gonna need alot of luck to get off;) I have sent plenty of ticket's to court and these are my finding's. Best of luck to you.



Looking up the population Niles & Skokie, Illinois right now... (I forgot where i got the ticket exactly.
Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself -

"from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of

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The bigger the city the ticket is from the better chance you have of getting off. The smaller......your gonna need alot of luck to get off;) I have sent plenty of ticket's to court and these are my finding's. Best of luck to you.



Niles, IL has a population of: 28,848 (2007)

Skokie, IL 63,348.

I think the ticket was issued in Skokie, because the the courthouse is in Skokie.
Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself -

"from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of

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Having reviewed this thread... I am going to step up to the plate and post a response. First I AM a cop in Illinois and before the cop haters out there starting spewing epiphets including my name, I will remind you I am also the biplane dude from Skyfest, Summerfest and Couchfreaks (www.invertedair.com). Hopefully that will pursuade most of you out there to realize that I'm not the usual cop prick (and yes I am aware most of us ARE pricks).

There's a ton of variables in this basic question and you didn't say whether you were written a citation for state statute or for a local ordinance or what department you were written by. I'm going to assume for the purpose of this answer, that you were written for a violation of state statute (IVC) and by a local department.

Okay.. reviewing your question it appears you're wanting the best of both worlds. You want to take your shot at a jury trial and if it doesn't work out... take the deal the States Attorney will be offering before trial. I'll give yah kind of a heads up on how the dealing works (at least in our county). First, the assistant states attorney will provide you the opportunity to take a plea arrangement for a higher fine and the ticket will remain "off the record" so to speak. What they are telling you is that the citation will be on record at the Secretary of State on your abstract but will not be viewable by an insurance agency unless you violate the terms of the plea agreement. Usually the plea includes the higher fine (anywhere from 115 to 175) and no further violations within a specified period of time (anywhere from 30 days to usually 6 mos). In counties where school is available, they usually include some sort of driving school as part of the plea arrangement.

They offer you the plea for a few reasons 1) to give you an incentive to plead guilty, 2) not clog up the court with a trial and 3) not waste the time of the states attorney, the judge and a jury for something that is a 75 dollar judgement.

If you don't take the plea and want a trial, the state has to perform a trial.

If the officer is not there, the state has the right to request a continuance (usually a month) to allow appropriate time for them to subpeona the officer or issue a notice for appearance or get him off the street into court. In this county, if it's the cops day off they most likely will dismiss the ticket but that's our department and our courts. Some departments require the officer to be there and they are paid to be there. It's kind of a crap shoot on that one because each department / county court have their own guidelines regarding officer appearances.

Okay, so the officer is available and present. The state will now move on to trial. This includes paneling a jury (I believe it's only 6 or 8 jurist instead of 12) each being paid by the state the incredible sum of 28 bucks to be there for the day and having the officer appear (also costing money).

A trial will be conducted and you will have the opportunity to provide your evidence. Based on what i read in your original post, it sounded like you probably were speeding so most likely you won't have any evidence to provide unless you perjur yourself. The state will provide their evidence and you can question the evidence just like what you see on TV.

If you are found guilty (and you have a 50/50 shot of winning) you will be sentenced. You will not have the option of taking the original plea deal. Oh by the way, did I mention that anything with a 75 dollar "bond" is considered a petty offense punishable by a 750 dollar fine. If you requested a jury trial, the states attorney will request a fine that includes the fees associated with empanelling the jury, the overtime of the cop and the time used by the state and the judge to put on the trial (Generally 300 or more). It's a crap shoot on what the judge might give you for a sentence.

I guess this is the long winded way of saying....
Take option B....
Life's the Pitts then you jump one.

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