NickDG 23 #1 February 26, 2010 People I know who've seen the movie “Full Metal Jacket” sometimes ask me if Marine Corps boot camp is as depicted in the movie. They can't believe it could be, and even newer Marines think the film is exaggerated. Well, they are both wrong it was actually much worse . . . I went through boot camp at Parris Island, South Carolina in 1971 arriving there just one week after I turned seventeen years old. Boot camp lasted a little over three months in those days and the fact you were headed straight to Vietnam almost right after hung heavy in our minds. What the movie doesn't convey is the total feeling of being on a real life Devil's Island with only two ways out. One was to graduate and we didn't even dare contemplate the other. It involved swamps filled with alligators and more than a few stories of recruits who didn’t make it. There's was plenty of physical abuse to be sure, and more constant than shown in the movie. But the real anvil over our head at all times was the threat of being "recycled." That means being sent back to a platoon behind you in the training schedule and you didn’t want to add a single day to your stay there. To add a couple of weeks was unthinkable. My nightmare dream consisted of one morning hearing my Drill Instructor screaming, “Private Spaghetti, pack your fucking trash!” (If you had a long or hard too pronounce last name like I did they always hung a new name on you.) There were two of us Italian kids in the platoon and the other one was Private Meatball, so I made out a little better. And so it happened usually once or twice a week. Some poor bastard would get the dreaded call and be recycled. Basically it meant they weren’t hacking it. And since we were all punished when a member of the platoon screwed up it was always preceded by some midnight platoon justice. The DI on duty on those nights must have certainly heard the commotion but they never intervened. And it was the only time I was there I recall doing anything autonomously. And some of those beatings were brutal to the point of hospitalization. And you couldn’t hold back even if you wanted to as it could come back on you later. But their actual leaving was an even more agonizing process to witness. They’d pack up their fighting gear, often in tears, into a steel bucket, their uniforms into a seabag, and sling their M-14 over a shoulder. Then they had to make that long walk down the center of the squad bay and out the hatch while we all stood at attention in front of our racks. I recall now always being relieved it wasn’t me, but knowing full well tomorrow it might be. And while we sort of understood what happened to them after that, for all intents and purposes they were just dead and never seen again. And we were glad to be rid of them. I don’t recall exactly how many were in our platoon when we started boot camp I’d say about 200. But when we graduated there was only 80, or so, of us left. Some of the stuff in the movie was true (I haven’t seen it in some years) but I think they depicted “suicide class.” We had two guys in our platoon try to commit suicide and fail. This prompted an hour long class on the proper and most efficient ways of doing away with yourself. It sounds absurd now but we were all taking copious notes. Some stuff was merely inconvenient like being made to smoke a whole cigarette with a steel wash bucket over your head. If you were lucky you’d start puking early one. But the DI’s liked irony too. If Private Meatball was in trouble and being punished I could always count on hearing, “What the fuck good is meatballs without spaghetti!” So I’d get hauled out there too. You didn’t have to screw up to get in trouble as punishment was just more or less inevitable. Another little trick they had up their sleeves was “Motivation Platoon.” While being recycled was reserved for guys trying as hard as they could and just not making it, motivation platoon, or “moat” as we called it, was for the hard cases. If you dared talk back, or refuse to follow an order, or just plain gave up (there’s no bell you can ring and quit like in SEAL BUD/s training) you were sent to motivation platoon for an entire week and then you got recycled. They also had “one day moat” and we all sooner or later got sent to that just for “because” but you weren’t recycled. When Meatball’s day came sure as shit they sent me with him. And it was pretty much the worst day of my young life. They gave us a shiny chrome plated steel helmet to wear and this separated us from the other recruits and was meant to embarrass us. To this day whenever I see someone with a chrome plated skydiving or motorcycle helmet I think, “What a frigging loser!” LOL. We spent three quarters of the day crawling face down through ditches filled with swamp water and some of the most foul smelling shit I ever came across. I still don’t want to know what was in those ditches. We carried ammo cans filled with sand in each hand while crawling and it was brutal. When we weren’t crawling we were holding those ammo cans at arms length which is pretty much impossible so that meant more crawling. And all the time the DI’s are screaming, punching and kicking at us and I came out of there black and blue all over. Late in the afternoon they hosed us off with cold water (it was winter) and sat us down to watch John Wayne movies (this was the motivation part.) We saw “Sands of Iwo Jima” but I noticed it was a heavily edited version with all the softer parts cut out. To say Meatball and I returned to our platoon more “motivated” than when we left is an understatement. I couldn’t imagine a full week of that shit like some guys faced. With about a month left of boot camp everything subtly changed. It was getting easier. It wasn’t that the DI’s became softer, they never let up on us until the last minute of the last day. It was us getting harder. I guess the lesson I learned from that is you can adapt to anything, which unknown to us, was exactly the lesson they wanted us to learn. As I look back on it now, Christ, it was 39 years ago, I still carry it in my heart. Anytime something calls for that little extra bit of physical or mental effort I can still put my head down and come up with it. And I’ve carried that gift from the Corps in me all these years. I know Marine boot camp isn’t like that anymore. A DI today who abuses his recruits in that fashion would be placed in the brig and then thrown out the Corps. But I remember my three Drill Instructor’s names and faces like it was yesterday and as funny as it sounds I can honestly say, and without any shame, I sort of love those guys. What prompted me to write all this was seeing this website. It just brought it all back like it was yesterday . . . http://media.gunaxin.com/a-tribute-to-full-metal-jackets-private-pyle/45050 NickD (Private Spaghetti) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MikeJD 0 #2 February 26, 2010 The Parris Island section of Full Metal Jacket is powerful but also very funny (no doubt people will be pitching in with quotes soon). I've never been through anything like that, and would never want to. I don't like to be yelled at. People seem to have a downer on the second half of the movie, but I think it's great. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wolfriverjoe 1,340 #3 February 26, 2010 The book is even better :http://www.gustavhasford.com/short.htm What motivated you do join the Marines, Nick? I know quite a few Marines, ranging in age from their 70's down to early 30's. Most have the globe and anchor tattoo, none consider themselves "ex". Few make a big deal about it, but many will share the funnier stories, some of the "funny" being relative."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumpwally 0 #4 February 26, 2010 A big +1,,i wish we could send every kid thru camp like that that leaves high school but before college, it would do this country some good...thanx for the storysmile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyrider 0 #5 February 26, 2010 That would have made you about the right age to hav Rockey, (Perris Tandem and AFF instructor, if ya remember him) I bet he was one tough sum bitch on Boots! He went threw a hell of a change during his years at Perris!All the way to long hair even! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NickDG 23 #6 February 26, 2010 Naw, Rocky was later on. I just heard from him a few weeks ago. He and his wife Heidi are now NRA gun instructors! NickD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyrider 0 #7 February 26, 2010 Quote Naw, Rocky was later on. I just heard from him a few weeks ago. He and his wife Heidi are now NRA gun instructors! NickD Great news, If ya hear from him again, Tell Him Gypsy say's Howdy! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BillyVance 34 #8 February 26, 2010 Nick, thanks for sharing the vivid memories. Joe, it's like the saying goes, "once a marine, always a marine" "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites not2old 0 #9 February 26, 2010 there are only two people that can understand a Marine....another Marine and the enemy!SOS #1314 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites topdocker 0 #10 February 27, 2010 My dad was a Marine DI. I grew up thinking getting tossed on the floor was how every child woke up at 5 AM, and that inspections of your area happened before your weekend could start. Funny, my dad talked me out of joining up two different times.....Maybe he knew I wasn't what they were looking for! top Jump more, post less! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #11 February 27, 2010 QuoteA big +1,,i wish we could send every kid thru camp like that that leaves high school but before college, it would do this country some good...thanx for the story Yes, yes, because that's what a country needs, people that will just follow orders. Don't get me wrong, the Marines are great. However, the main reason boot camp exists is to initially break individuality and ensure you have people that will simply follow whatever order they're given. Later comes the good stuff, but boot camp is chiefly about brainwashing, even more than physical conditioning. You WILL do what you're told.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rookie120 0 #12 February 27, 2010 Quotebut boot camp is chiefly about brainwashing You keep tellin yourself that ok.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NickDG 23 #13 February 27, 2010 "Private Qualude! Pack your fucking trash!" NickD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #14 February 27, 2010 QuoteQuotebut boot camp is chiefly about brainwashing You keep tellin yourself that ok. If you can show me where people are generally less willing to follow orders after boot camp than before, you might have a point, but I highly doubt you can.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NickDG 23 #15 February 28, 2010 College brainwashes people. Fox News brainwashes people. The USPA brainwashes people. Civilians volunteer to attempt becoming Marines. If you hold up your end of the bargain, the Corps holds up their end of the bargain. So what's your point? NickD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #16 February 28, 2010 QuoteCivilians volunteer to attempt becoming Marines. As do people joining Scientology or Krishna. My "point" is that I don't think people always realize what they're getting into. I find yours and Rookie's reaction hilarious considering the topic of this thread and your first post in it.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Herky 0 #17 February 28, 2010 QuoteI remember my three Drill Instructor’s names and faces like it was yesterday and as funny as it sounds I can honestly say, and without any shame, I sort of love those guys. What kind of person goes through that kind of boot camp, and then upon completion looks at the drill instructor and says to themselves, "God I'd love to be that guy". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #18 February 28, 2010 QuoteQuoteCivilians volunteer to attempt becoming Marines. As do people joining Scientology or Krishna. My "point" is that I don't think people always realize what they're getting into. I find yours and Rookie's reaction hilarious considering the topic of this thread and your first post in it. Brainwashing? That's a little dramatic. Years ago, I would agree that people didn't really know what they were getting themselves into. Now, I would have to disagree. If you do your homework, there isn't a lot about bootcamp that you don't already know before you get there. You can practically watch the whole damn thing on the history channel. As for the brainwashing comment: I will agree that the psychological component of Marine Corps bootcamp is more prevalent and important than physical conditioning. You can get in some sort of shape in four months, but the conditioning level you are ultimately going for is going to take years to achieve. The psychological part is not intended to brainwash or turn kids into unquestioning followers. Drill instructors (often just one) have to maintain the appearance of control over 75-100 young men at all times. Not an easy task. The daily schedules are set down to the minute. There is an enormous amount of training that happens in Marine bootcamp and time is of the essence. I wouldn't call that brainwashing. I would call it achieving the stated objectives in a manner that is the most efficient and also safe for the drill instructors. There is a training evolution at the end of Marine bootcamp called the crucible. One of the functions of the crucible is to promote decision making skills. It's actually extremely important for today's Marines to be able to think and make good decisions. We're not standing in straight lines and shooting each other until the last man standing wins. We're street to street and building to building in the middle of civilian populations. A brainwashed Marine is a very poor Marine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #19 February 28, 2010 Semper Fi brother! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NickDG 23 #20 February 28, 2010 It's okay, Qaude. I know you don't get it. Herky, you can't read, LOL . . . And JohnnyD is, ya know, new Corps. (We had plenty of "thinkers" in my time too, Johnny!) NickD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NickDG 23 #21 February 28, 2010 Semper Fi back to you, brother! NickD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #22 February 28, 2010 Quote new Corps. I have never been a fan of that term. It's just a different time. Different enemies. Different technology. Same Corps. Always. I had a Master Gunney with a little statue on his desk of a Mongol warrior wearing an animal skin and holding a club. It had a little plaque on the bottom that said: If this was not your basic combat issue, shut the fuck up about the New Corps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyrider 0 #23 February 28, 2010 Speaking up for oen that has never surved, but lost many frienmds who did, Thank you who do serve for your service! I ride with the Patriot Gaurd Riders, standing respect for our returning soldiers, and unfortinilty. flag lines for their funerals! if you know either, have their families contact "The Patriot Guard" we will be proud to be there, (by invitation only, if not invited, we don't show)) if you want to join us, Check out http://www.patriotguard.org/ You don;t have to be a biker to join us! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Herky 0 #24 February 28, 2010 QuoteHerky, you can't read, LOL . . . I'm not saying you in particular. But what I am saying is that those drill instructors. They went through the same crap you did. They got beat up, they got broken down. At some point after going through that hell, they said to themselves, "That's the position I want to have". I just don't understand how someone could go through that, and come out of it wanting to be the one who dishes it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jackwallace 3 #25 February 28, 2010 If you think boot camp was bad. I think A school was worse on the Marines. I was in the Navy in school in Memphis. Marines were in the same schools. Mine was jet mechanics, but they had all kinds of schools there. The Navy barracks were on one side of the road, the Marines on the other. Every night after taps we could see the flash lights as those Marines studied in the dark. They never gave up crap like Marines and Navy guys do to each other and they didn't much leave base like we did with our time off. Why? Because every thursday we took a test. On friday there would be a Marine missing from class. No one said a word, just an empty seat. You see on thursday night that Marine had been quietly notified he flunked the test. He packed his gear and went to Nam'. No fan fare, No public walk. No funny hats. No second chance.Just gone in the middle of the night. The stress it put those Marines under was unreal. Cause they knew one small error and they were gone. It sucked.U only make 2 jumps: the first one for some weird reason and the last one that you lived through. The rest are just filler. scr 316 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
MikeJD 0 #2 February 26, 2010 The Parris Island section of Full Metal Jacket is powerful but also very funny (no doubt people will be pitching in with quotes soon). I've never been through anything like that, and would never want to. I don't like to be yelled at. People seem to have a downer on the second half of the movie, but I think it's great. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #3 February 26, 2010 The book is even better :http://www.gustavhasford.com/short.htm What motivated you do join the Marines, Nick? I know quite a few Marines, ranging in age from their 70's down to early 30's. Most have the globe and anchor tattoo, none consider themselves "ex". Few make a big deal about it, but many will share the funnier stories, some of the "funny" being relative."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #4 February 26, 2010 A big +1,,i wish we could send every kid thru camp like that that leaves high school but before college, it would do this country some good...thanx for the storysmile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #5 February 26, 2010 That would have made you about the right age to hav Rockey, (Perris Tandem and AFF instructor, if ya remember him) I bet he was one tough sum bitch on Boots! He went threw a hell of a change during his years at Perris!All the way to long hair even! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #6 February 26, 2010 Naw, Rocky was later on. I just heard from him a few weeks ago. He and his wife Heidi are now NRA gun instructors! NickD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #7 February 26, 2010 Quote Naw, Rocky was later on. I just heard from him a few weeks ago. He and his wife Heidi are now NRA gun instructors! NickD Great news, If ya hear from him again, Tell Him Gypsy say's Howdy! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #8 February 26, 2010 Nick, thanks for sharing the vivid memories. Joe, it's like the saying goes, "once a marine, always a marine" "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
not2old 0 #9 February 26, 2010 there are only two people that can understand a Marine....another Marine and the enemy!SOS #1314 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topdocker 0 #10 February 27, 2010 My dad was a Marine DI. I grew up thinking getting tossed on the floor was how every child woke up at 5 AM, and that inspections of your area happened before your weekend could start. Funny, my dad talked me out of joining up two different times.....Maybe he knew I wasn't what they were looking for! top Jump more, post less! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #11 February 27, 2010 QuoteA big +1,,i wish we could send every kid thru camp like that that leaves high school but before college, it would do this country some good...thanx for the story Yes, yes, because that's what a country needs, people that will just follow orders. Don't get me wrong, the Marines are great. However, the main reason boot camp exists is to initially break individuality and ensure you have people that will simply follow whatever order they're given. Later comes the good stuff, but boot camp is chiefly about brainwashing, even more than physical conditioning. You WILL do what you're told.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #12 February 27, 2010 Quotebut boot camp is chiefly about brainwashing You keep tellin yourself that ok.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #13 February 27, 2010 "Private Qualude! Pack your fucking trash!" NickD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #14 February 27, 2010 QuoteQuotebut boot camp is chiefly about brainwashing You keep tellin yourself that ok. If you can show me where people are generally less willing to follow orders after boot camp than before, you might have a point, but I highly doubt you can.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #15 February 28, 2010 College brainwashes people. Fox News brainwashes people. The USPA brainwashes people. Civilians volunteer to attempt becoming Marines. If you hold up your end of the bargain, the Corps holds up their end of the bargain. So what's your point? NickD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #16 February 28, 2010 QuoteCivilians volunteer to attempt becoming Marines. As do people joining Scientology or Krishna. My "point" is that I don't think people always realize what they're getting into. I find yours and Rookie's reaction hilarious considering the topic of this thread and your first post in it.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herky 0 #17 February 28, 2010 QuoteI remember my three Drill Instructor’s names and faces like it was yesterday and as funny as it sounds I can honestly say, and without any shame, I sort of love those guys. What kind of person goes through that kind of boot camp, and then upon completion looks at the drill instructor and says to themselves, "God I'd love to be that guy". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #18 February 28, 2010 QuoteQuoteCivilians volunteer to attempt becoming Marines. As do people joining Scientology or Krishna. My "point" is that I don't think people always realize what they're getting into. I find yours and Rookie's reaction hilarious considering the topic of this thread and your first post in it. Brainwashing? That's a little dramatic. Years ago, I would agree that people didn't really know what they were getting themselves into. Now, I would have to disagree. If you do your homework, there isn't a lot about bootcamp that you don't already know before you get there. You can practically watch the whole damn thing on the history channel. As for the brainwashing comment: I will agree that the psychological component of Marine Corps bootcamp is more prevalent and important than physical conditioning. You can get in some sort of shape in four months, but the conditioning level you are ultimately going for is going to take years to achieve. The psychological part is not intended to brainwash or turn kids into unquestioning followers. Drill instructors (often just one) have to maintain the appearance of control over 75-100 young men at all times. Not an easy task. The daily schedules are set down to the minute. There is an enormous amount of training that happens in Marine bootcamp and time is of the essence. I wouldn't call that brainwashing. I would call it achieving the stated objectives in a manner that is the most efficient and also safe for the drill instructors. There is a training evolution at the end of Marine bootcamp called the crucible. One of the functions of the crucible is to promote decision making skills. It's actually extremely important for today's Marines to be able to think and make good decisions. We're not standing in straight lines and shooting each other until the last man standing wins. We're street to street and building to building in the middle of civilian populations. A brainwashed Marine is a very poor Marine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #19 February 28, 2010 Semper Fi brother! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #20 February 28, 2010 It's okay, Qaude. I know you don't get it. Herky, you can't read, LOL . . . And JohnnyD is, ya know, new Corps. (We had plenty of "thinkers" in my time too, Johnny!) NickD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #21 February 28, 2010 Semper Fi back to you, brother! NickD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #22 February 28, 2010 Quote new Corps. I have never been a fan of that term. It's just a different time. Different enemies. Different technology. Same Corps. Always. I had a Master Gunney with a little statue on his desk of a Mongol warrior wearing an animal skin and holding a club. It had a little plaque on the bottom that said: If this was not your basic combat issue, shut the fuck up about the New Corps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #23 February 28, 2010 Speaking up for oen that has never surved, but lost many frienmds who did, Thank you who do serve for your service! I ride with the Patriot Gaurd Riders, standing respect for our returning soldiers, and unfortinilty. flag lines for their funerals! if you know either, have their families contact "The Patriot Guard" we will be proud to be there, (by invitation only, if not invited, we don't show)) if you want to join us, Check out http://www.patriotguard.org/ You don;t have to be a biker to join us! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herky 0 #24 February 28, 2010 QuoteHerky, you can't read, LOL . . . I'm not saying you in particular. But what I am saying is that those drill instructors. They went through the same crap you did. They got beat up, they got broken down. At some point after going through that hell, they said to themselves, "That's the position I want to have". I just don't understand how someone could go through that, and come out of it wanting to be the one who dishes it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackwallace 3 #25 February 28, 2010 If you think boot camp was bad. I think A school was worse on the Marines. I was in the Navy in school in Memphis. Marines were in the same schools. Mine was jet mechanics, but they had all kinds of schools there. The Navy barracks were on one side of the road, the Marines on the other. Every night after taps we could see the flash lights as those Marines studied in the dark. They never gave up crap like Marines and Navy guys do to each other and they didn't much leave base like we did with our time off. Why? Because every thursday we took a test. On friday there would be a Marine missing from class. No one said a word, just an empty seat. You see on thursday night that Marine had been quietly notified he flunked the test. He packed his gear and went to Nam'. No fan fare, No public walk. No funny hats. No second chance.Just gone in the middle of the night. The stress it put those Marines under was unreal. Cause they knew one small error and they were gone. It sucked.U only make 2 jumps: the first one for some weird reason and the last one that you lived through. The rest are just filler. scr 316 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
