DSE 3
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QuoteI got my coach's rating for one reason. New jumpers, those off AFF but not licensed, need someone there for reference point. I am someone to dock with, someone to track away from, someone to to see if they are backsliding. I can lay a stable base for them to work from. I can fall a little faster, or slow down to help them learn those skills. I can tell them to watch on their 360s and I can actually move a little to the side to help them learn to side body. And sometimes I am just someone to brag to, "Wow, we did it." You don't need to be Mr Super Skydiver or God's Gift to the DZ to do that.
I am thankful for all the help I got when I needed it and am proud to do my little part in making it fun.
Great answer... it just needs to be kept in perspective, as we all know things tend to get blown WAY out of proportion here.
*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----
ufk22 32
QuoteQuoteQuoteI got my coach's rating for one reason. New jumpers, those off AFF but not licensed, need someone there for reference point. I am someone to dock with, someone to track away from, someone to to see if they are backsliding. I can lay a stable base for them to work from. I can fall a little faster, or slow down to help them learn those skills. I can tell them to watch on their 360s and I can actually move a little to the side to help them learn to side body. And sometimes I am just someone to brag to, "Wow, we did it." You don't need to be Mr Super Skydiver or God's Gift to the DZ to do that.
I am thankful for all the help I got when I needed it and am proud to do my little part in making it fun.
THIS.
I would also like to add that if I was looking for a coach, and was going to pay for it, I would want someone with more jumps/experience than I have. I'd like a canopy piloting coach with several thousand jumps... a wingsuit coach with a thousand ws jumps, etc.
Even as uncurrent as I am, I'd be hard to listen to a person with fewer jumps than I have and a coach rating for anything other than maybe the first few jumps upon my return to the sport. And those would have to be "free" so the new coach could get experience coaching while I'm knocking the dust off.
(Yes, I fully admit that's ego. But it's the truth.)
What makes you think anyone would want to try to help out someone with that kind of attitude even if they're paid, let alone for free?
Just go out on your own, you know how it's done, and rely on those freefall winds to take off that dust.
P.S Don't hurry back
This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.
billvon 2,384
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>What makes you think anyone would want to try to help out someone
>with that kind of attitude even if they're paid, let alone for free?
?? We do that every weekend. I get paid to teach the FJC (and jump with AFF students) because I have enough jumps/experience to do an OK job at it.
>with that kind of attitude even if they're paid, let alone for free?
?? We do that every weekend. I get paid to teach the FJC (and jump with AFF students) because I have enough jumps/experience to do an OK job at it.
Ron 7
QuoteDisagree!!! My "coach" was only a coach so he could get his TM license, and didn't care about teaching.
1. Sounds like he didn't really want to teach. That does not disprove my theory. He would of most likely sucked as a coach at 100 jumps, or 10k jumps.
2. A set of one, does not disprove a theory.
You think a guy with a good attitude that has 100 jumps and a coach rating would be as good of a coach as the SAME guy when he has 10k jumps?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI got my coach's rating for one reason. New jumpers, those off AFF but not licensed, need someone there for reference point. I am someone to dock with, someone to track away from, someone to to see if they are backsliding. I can lay a stable base for them to work from. I can fall a little faster, or slow down to help them learn those skills. I can tell them to watch on their 360s and I can actually move a little to the side to help them learn to side body. And sometimes I am just someone to brag to, "Wow, we did it." You don't need to be Mr Super Skydiver or God's Gift to the DZ to do that.
I am thankful for all the help I got when I needed it and am proud to do my little part in making it fun.
THIS.
I would also like to add that if I was looking for a coach, and was going to pay for it, I would want someone with more jumps/experience than I have. I'd like a canopy piloting coach with several thousand jumps... a wingsuit coach with a thousand ws jumps, etc.
Even as uncurrent as I am, I'd be hard to listen to a person with fewer jumps than I have and a coach rating for anything other than maybe the first few jumps upon my return to the sport. And those would have to be "free" so the new coach could get experience coaching while I'm knocking the dust off.
(Yes, I fully admit that's ego. But it's the truth.)
What makes you think anyone would want to try to help out someone with that kind of attitude even if they're paid, let alone for free?
Just go out on your own, you know how it's done, and rely on those freefall winds to take off that dust.
P.S Don't hurry back
My my, aren't your panties in a bunch!
Sorry if my honesty offends you. Oh wait, no I'm not.
I may not have a lot of jumps. Only 525 right now, but I don't think it demonstrates a bad attitude to want someone with more experience than I for a coach. Especially if I'm going to be paying for it!! Skydiving has doubled in price since I last jumped. And I'm gonna make damn sure that if I'm paying for two that I get premiere instruction from a highly experienced individual with a solid reputation. Maybe that means I have to drive down to Spaceland for canopy piloting or Deland or Eloy for two weeks of RW training... whatever. But I sure as hell am not gonna pay a 100 jump wonder at a local cessna dz. That ain't gonna happen.
Ya know what else ain't gonna happen?
I ain't gonna jump with you. Not even if you paid ME!
Card carrying member of the
Nanny State Liberation Front
Nanny State Liberation Front
DSE 3
I wonder if you're confusing the coach rating with "coaching?"
A 150 jump wonder who has a Coach Rating primarily jumps with people fresh off AFF and in the ISP or journey towards their A license. You're well past that.
You might want advanced coaching in say....Canopy Control, Wingsuiting, Freeflying....; these are not disciplines that 150 jump Coaches are trained nor prepared to deal with.
For example, if one wishes to be a Phoenix-fly Wingsuit Coach, then one must first possess a USPA Coach rating. This lets PF know you've jumped through the hoops of learning to teach. However, that 150 jump Coach doesn't yet possess the experience nor skillset to teach wingsuit First Flight Courses.
A 150 jump wonder who has a Coach Rating primarily jumps with people fresh off AFF and in the ISP or journey towards their A license. You're well past that.
You might want advanced coaching in say....Canopy Control, Wingsuiting, Freeflying....; these are not disciplines that 150 jump Coaches are trained nor prepared to deal with.
For example, if one wishes to be a Phoenix-fly Wingsuit Coach, then one must first possess a USPA Coach rating. This lets PF know you've jumped through the hoops of learning to teach. However, that 150 jump Coach doesn't yet possess the experience nor skillset to teach wingsuit First Flight Courses.
I see what you mean. I never intended to offend anyone when I posted that initial statement about experience and coaches. It was just kind of a matter of fact.
Certainly a 100 jump wonder can't teach ws jumping but maybe somebody with my jump numbers wants to teach canopy piloting or sequential RW. I wouldn't hire me, so to speak. I would want someone with a at least 2 or 3 thousand jumps within the discipline. If I was gonna coach, it would only be with recent AFF grads. So I think we're on the same sheet of music here.
It just amazes me how quickly somebody can pass judgement and attack me without clarifying what exactly I'm saying. Communication is always clearer when face to face. Flying off the handle like that before having all the facts is just dumb.
Some may accuse me of flying off the handle a few times here as well. But whenever I've done it, it was in response to a post like the knucklehead who told me "not to hurry back". That was an attack. If I really retaliated like I wanted to, it would've been completely justified and it should be expected.
Certainly a 100 jump wonder can't teach ws jumping but maybe somebody with my jump numbers wants to teach canopy piloting or sequential RW. I wouldn't hire me, so to speak. I would want someone with a at least 2 or 3 thousand jumps within the discipline. If I was gonna coach, it would only be with recent AFF grads. So I think we're on the same sheet of music here.
It just amazes me how quickly somebody can pass judgement and attack me without clarifying what exactly I'm saying. Communication is always clearer when face to face. Flying off the handle like that before having all the facts is just dumb.
Some may accuse me of flying off the handle a few times here as well. But whenever I've done it, it was in response to a post like the knucklehead who told me "not to hurry back". That was an attack. If I really retaliated like I wanted to, it would've been completely justified and it should be expected.
Card carrying member of the
Nanny State Liberation Front
Nanny State Liberation Front
ufk22 32
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI got my coach's rating for one reason. New jumpers, those off AFF but not licensed, need someone there for reference point. I am someone to dock with, someone to track away from, someone to to see if they are backsliding. I can lay a stable base for them to work from. I can fall a little faster, or slow down to help them learn those skills. I can tell them to watch on their 360s and I can actually move a little to the side to help them learn to side body. And sometimes I am just someone to brag to, "Wow, we did it." You don't need to be Mr Super Skydiver or God's Gift to the DZ to do that.
I am thankful for all the help I got when I needed it and am proud to do my little part in making it fun.
THIS.
I would also like to add that if I was looking for a coach, and was going to pay for it, I would want someone with more jumps/experience than I have. I'd like a canopy piloting coach with several thousand jumps... a wingsuit coach with a thousand ws jumps, etc.
Even as uncurrent as I am, I'd be hard to listen to a person with fewer jumps than I have and a coach rating for anything other than maybe the first few jumps upon my return to the sport. And those would have to be "free" so the new coach could get experience coaching while I'm knocking the dust off.
(Yes, I fully admit that's ego. But it's the truth.)
What makes you think anyone would want to try to help out someone with that kind of attitude even if they're paid, let alone for free?
Just go out on your own, you know how it's done, and rely on those freefall winds to take off that dust.
P.S Don't hurry back
My my, aren't your panties in a bunch!
Sorry if my honesty offends you. Oh wait, no I'm not.
I may not have a lot of jumps. Only 525 right now, but I don't think it demonstrates a bad attitude to want someone with more experience than I for a coach. Especially if I'm going to be paying for it!! Skydiving has doubled in price since I last jumped. And I'm gonna make damn sure that if I'm paying for two that I get premiere instruction from a highly experienced individual with a solid reputation. Maybe that means I have to drive down to Spaceland for canopy piloting or Deland or Eloy for two weeks of RW training... whatever. But I sure as hell am not gonna pay a 100 jump wonder at a local cessna dz. That ain't gonna happen.
Ya know what else ain't gonna happen?
I ain't gonna jump with you. Not even if you paid ME!
I'm not going to pay you, even though I realize that I might need some practice, so relax about that one. I've only been a coach-E and an I-E for 2 or 3 years, with about 20 years of instructing before that.
My point was;
USPA recommends that as a D-license skydiver not having made a jump in 6 months that you "jump under the supervision of a USPA instructional rating holder (coach or Instructor) until you can demonstrate the ability to be safe.
Anyone I've signed off on as a coach has more than enough ability to do that, and they should be paid for it. Once they get the rating, they don't need unpaid practice jumps. If you've been out of the sport for more than a year, you should go through complete training and E-P drills, all of which can be taught by a coach (and that coach certainly deserves to be paid). Anyone who's been through my coach course, even if they only have 100 jumps, has demonstrated the ability to do all of this.
If jump prices have doubled since you last jumped, that tells me you've been out of the sport for many years. The jumpers I've seen come back after that kind of long layoff that have your attitude have generally been a danger to themselves and to those around them. "No, I won't sit through a first jump course", "No, I won't do a clear and pull, I'll just do a little RW", and of course the ever popular "I'd be hard to listen to a person with fewer jumps than I have and a coach rating for anything other than maybe the first few jumps upon my return to the sport. And those would have to be "free". I've heard it all.
Those that come back realizing what they need to do to get current, considering everything that has changed in the sport over the years, are a joy.
To quote from above "Flying off the handle like that before having all the facts is just dumb."
This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.
Discussion with you is pointless. You don't listen. You rant.
Card carrying member of the
Nanny State Liberation Front
Nanny State Liberation Front
ufk22 32
QuoteDiscussion with you is pointless. You don't listen. You rant.
I'd say you just proved my point.
Loved the "all bold" by the way.
And another quote from above;
"Sorry if my honesty offends you."
This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.
You must be one of those ego-maniac skygods who has to have the last word on everything. You just can't shut up.
Card carrying member of the
Nanny State Liberation Front
Nanny State Liberation Front
i just got the last word
skybytch 259
Pot, meet kettle.
You think a guy with a good attitude that has 100 jumps and a coach rating would be as good of a coach as the SAME guy when he has 10k jumps?
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10k jumps or coach jumps? I think someone with 100 jumps WOULD be as good of a coach - they were JUST there and they remember the fears. 10k jumps are sometimes too removed. Also a student is more relaxed with a 100 jump coach vs a 10k jump. Yes I truly believe in this rating for a 100 jumps. Plus - if a 10k jumper is truly a coach, they would WANT a 100 jumper to get this license and do their do-diligents and learn to coach. I always give kudos to my senior jumpers (jumps, not age), but give it back to me too. Teach me to teach. I'm not suggesting I would coach on swooping or coach a 50 way, that would be your job. If I ever want to learn to teach these skills, I have to learn to teach the basics.
QuoteIt just amazes me how quickly somebody can pass judgement and attack me without clarifying what exactly I'm saying. Communication is always clearer when face to face. Flying off the handle like that before having all the facts is just dumb.
Welcome to the ego filled and undeserved self important attitudes of DZ.com.
skycc 0
I think it's way too soon for probably 99% of skydivers that I know with 100 jumps, and I jump with plenty of them as an organizer. Most of them have no where near the awareness or flying skills to be a decent coach, IMO. And the fact that the coached students are charged so much for a jump...seems to me they ought to get what they pay for, and they just aren't with some coaches. That may also be why when some graduate from SDU and we start jumping with them, we are still doing LOTS of coaching, even on very basic skills.
Years ago, our students got their own AFF instructors as coaches for the most part....and that was a very tough rating back then to get so they got seriously good coaching. Oh, and we even paid our own slots. It was just part of giving back and continuing to monitor their progress. Ah, the good old days. 
skybytch 259
QuoteAnd the fact that the coached students are charged so much for a jump...seems to me they ought to get what they pay for, and they just aren't with some coaches.
Same applies to some AFF instructors. Sucks for someone to pay $200 for a jump and then spend half the freefall tumbling because one of the instructors screwed the pooch on the exit and the other can't get it stable.
Not that anything like THAT would ever happen...
QuoteI think it's way too soon for probably 99% of skydivers that I know with 100 jumps, and I jump with plenty of them as an organizer. Most of them have no where near the awareness or flying skills to be a decent coach, IMO. And the fact that the coached students are charged so much for a jump...seems to me they ought to get what they pay for, and they just aren't with some coaches. That may also be why when some graduate from SDU and we start jumping with them, we are still doing LOTS of coaching, even on very basic skills.
Years ago, our students got their own AFF instructors as coaches for the most part....and that was a very tough rating back then to get so they got seriously good coaching. Oh, and we even paid our own slots. It was just part of giving back and continuing to monitor their progress. Ah, the good old days.
EXACTLY!
I have no problem jumping with unlicensed "up jumpers" which is what we used to call students who had graduated student status but haven't got a license yet. And I paid for my own jumps too!
Guys with 100 jumps usually barely have the skills for a 4 way rw jump. It just doesn't make sense to pay them for a two way.
Card carrying member of the
Nanny State Liberation Front
Nanny State Liberation Front
-----------------
Like anything else in this world of people, there are good coaches and bad ones. There are those motivated to be the best they can be and help others do the same, and those motivated by free jumps and paychecks.
The "light bulb turning on" and "the smile" are the best paychecks I can imagine. Someone who loves to teach can make that happen regardless of jump numbers.
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