To soon for a coach rating?

[gixzig 0]

Ok so this is sort of a spin off from another thread but I was wondering where everyone stood on obtaining a coach rating. I know what it says in the sim. (100 jumps with a B license, 60 min of freefall time, Ect, Ect) But I was wondering what the over all consensus is.
Do you personally think someone with lets say 100-150 jumps is really qualified to coach a new skydiver? To me this seems like it might be a bit too soon.
Most skydivers I see with sub 200 jump numbers are still getting things figured out themselves let alone figured out enough to offer good sound advice to a highly impressionable student.
It's not that I'm totally against it I just want to know what others think.

[lowhook 0]

I think it is a money maker for the USPA and some dropzones. Ask yourself if you would want to be coached by someone with your current experience?

[almeister112 0]

As the one who started the other thread, I personally think the only reason I'd get a coach jump within the next 300 jumps or so would just be to increase my own skills. I suspect I could probably teach more than I think I could, but I certainly wouldn't hire myself as a coach at my current skill level.

[freeflyer58D 1]

i got a coach rating at 100ish jumps, and although i had that "rating" i knew i was no expert... i have desires to continue in the sport and become an instructor. the coach rating is a stepping stone to the next ratings. the coach course was well put together, it was challenging, and it made me want to study even more because it reminded me how much of an impression a coach can have on new students. as a coach, im working with students who are just off AFF and want/need someone to jump with to practice group freefall skills and have a solid base to reference themselves to. teaching fall rates, and how to properly exit and spot isnt easy,(but not THAT hard...) but for someone with 100 plus jumps and someone who has passed the coach rating course... i think its more than acceptable. with that said, i think its important to not just hand a rating out, and a coach candidate should be put through a good ringer so they understand the importance of the role they fill.

[flipper 0]

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Do you personally think someone with lets say 100-150 jumps is really qualified to coach a new skydiver?





No, not even close

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[brucet7 0]

I got my coach's rating for one reason. New jumpers, those off AFF but not licensed, need someone there for reference point. I am someone to dock with, someone to track away from, someone to to see if they are backsliding. I can lay a stable base for them to work from. I can fall a little faster, or slow down to help them learn those skills. I can tell them to watch on their 360s and I can actually move a little to the side to help them learn to side body. And sometimes I am just someone to brag to, "Wow, we did it." You don't need to be Mr Super Skydiver or God's Gift to the DZ to do that.

I am thankful for all the help I got when I needed it and am proud to do my little part in making it fun.

POPS #10623; SOS #1672

[wmw999 2,116]

And this reasoning is exactly what is right with the coach's rating.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[skybytch 259]

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I personally think the only reason I'd get a coach jump within the next 300 jumps or so would just be to increase my own skills.

Holding a USPA coach rating means that somebody with another USPA rating thinks that you can safely jump with post Cat E, pre-A licensed jumpers and adequately teach a few basic skills to them. That's it.

Your current skill level is likely far above that of somebody with 10 jumps. Pretty much anybody with decent verbal communication skills can teach basic skills. It ain't rocket science.

[BETO74 0]

Also I like to add I think the SIMS recommends a coaching rating or STA approval to fly with tandems etc.

http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html

[tetra316 0]

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Also I like to add I think the SIMS recommends a coaching rating or STA approval to fly with tandems etc.

Actually it doesn't matter what the SIM says (although I don't know). It matters what the manufacturer says. I seen guidelines along the lines of 500 jumps, AFF rating, 200 camera jumps before jumping camera with tandem etc. Although I've never heard of any place actually following the written guidelines to the letter.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Ok so this is sort of a spin off from another thread but I was wondering where everyone stood on obtaining a coach rating. I know what it says in the sim. (100 jumps with a B license, 60 min of freefall time, Ect, Ect) But I was wondering what the over all consensus is.

The coach rating is a USPA/skydiving industry commercialization of what was already happening for free.

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Do you personally think someone with lets say 100-150 jumps is really qualified to coach a new skydiver? To me this seems like it might be a bit too soon.

As long as you can successfully complete basic flat RW jumps (this is no longer a given) it's plenty to teach basic skills, be a stationary base, etc. for students who have been cleared for self-supervision.

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Most skydivers I see with sub 200 jump numbers are still getting things figured out themselves let alone figured out enough to offer good sound advice to a highly impressionable student.
It's not that I'm totally against it I just want to know what others think.

100 jumps used to be enough to jump master static line students.

[Ron 7]

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I know what it says in the sim. (100 jumps with a B license, 60 min of freefall time, Ect, Ect) But I was wondering what the over all consensus is.

My opinion... If you meet the standards and earn the rating.. Good for you. It is not some super secret rating, it a beginner rating. As long as you continue to work on your skills, you are good to go.

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Do you personally think someone with lets say 100-150 jumps is really qualified to coach a new skydiver?

On certain things... sure. I was a SL JM with 100 jumps. That made me qualified to do a JPI, attach a SL to the plane, open the door and spot. It didn't make me an expert, just rated.

The only caveats:

1. They actually earn the rating, not just get something pencil whipped.

2. They realize that it is just a start and continue to work on skills and delivery.

There is no doubt that a guy with 10k jumps in most cases is more qualified to coach than a guy with 100. But the guy with 100 performed well enough to pass the course.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[rehmwa 2]

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My opinion... If you meet the standards and earn the rating.. Good for you. It is not some super secret rating, it a beginner rating. As long as you continue to work on your skills, you are good to go.

I'm not a big fan of the Coach rating - up jumpers used to just jump with newbies and that encourage learning.

However, since it's here now, I like Ron's answer above. Meet the standards and earn the rating. No one should be surprised since the minimum criteria is defined.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[OG-Tahiti 0]

Well I got my coach rating a month ago at around 140 jumps.

I had two main reasons for doing it:

1- I feel that taking the time to learn how to teach the FJC and the coach jumps workflow in itself was a great way to keep myself current with emergency procedures and learn more about our sport. I am sure it helps me be a better and safer skydiver each time I get to teach a course.

2- I have friends that want to do their AFF and when I did mine I honestly started to get seriously bored during my solos. I wish I had friends that could jump with me, on my first coach jump as a solo student a coach friend jumped with me and we turned my first few points.
This jump is one I will remember for a long time because of the fun it was.
For the first time I felt like an actual skydiver doing a skydive you know, not just a student.
So if I can help bring that feeling to my friends during all their solos on their way to A than it was worth the $$ and time for the coach course.

So I don't feel jumpers are not ready for coach rating at 100 jumps, it just depends what you expect to get out from it.

"Common sense is not so common" - Voltaire
Dudeist Skydiver #9

[rehmwa 2]

1 - someone can learn to teach a course any time - with or without some made up rating by the USPA - but it doesn't hurt to sit the courses or assist at any time.

2 - before students had to pay someone to jump with them, up jumpers jumped with them for fun. When I graduated AFF in 1987, I was turning points with other jumpers almost immediately - we were "actual skydivers". Now, with every one getting ratings and expecting to be paid for jumping with a newbie, sometimes it's hard to find a couple people to just go up and do a fun jump with a newbie for the hell of it.

it's a tough tradeoff - jumps are a LOT more expensive than they used to be, so it's harder to justify just going up with someone when you know your personal payoff will not be in skills improvement (unless the newbie is REALLY bad). I know a lot of coaches that are terrible skydivers and very poor coaches. I know a lot of coaches that are very good at both too though.

Licensing requirements do require an observer now for a few of the freefall skills, so that adds difficulty. I just don't know if this change is for the good or not. we'll have to see.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[brucet7 0]

And I pay my own way. I don't ask people to pay for my fun. I am going out of the plane anyway. I am not in such demand that people are calling or texting me, hoping I will jump with them.

POPS #10623; SOS #1672

[PiLFy 0]

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I got my coach's rating for one reason. New jumpers, those off AFF but not licensed, need someone there for reference point. I am someone to dock with, someone to track away from, someone to to see if they are backsliding. I can lay a stable base for them to work from. I can fall a little faster, or slow down to help them learn those skills. I can tell them to watch on their 360s and I can actually move a little to the side to help them learn to side body. And sometimes I am just someone to brag to, "Wow, we did it." You don't need to be Mr Super Skydiver or God's Gift to the DZ to do that.

I am thankful for all the help I got when I needed it and am proud to do my little part in making it fun.

Nicely said

[DSE 3]

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I got my coach's rating for one reason. New jumpers, those off AFF but not licensed, need someone there for reference point. I am someone to dock with, someone to track away from, someone to to see if they are backsliding. I can lay a stable base for them to work from. I can fall a little faster, or slow down to help them learn those skills. I can tell them to watch on their 360s and I can actually move a little to the side to help them learn to side body. And sometimes I am just someone to brag to, "Wow, we did it." You don't need to be Mr Super Skydiver or God's Gift to the DZ to do that.

I am thankful for all the help I got when I needed it and am proud to do my little part in making it fun.

This is what I hope motivates most to go for the rating.
The rating is by far more about understanding teaching methods, observing the student, and providing a base than it is about money, flying skills, or FJC.
Different DZ cultures treat coaches differently, and I think that's what creates the variances in the perceived validity of the coach program.

[Ron 7]

I would like to add that for YEARS people wanted to make skydiving "mainstream" and become "professional".

While this has several advantages such as gear advancements, better aircraft, better facilities, more jumpers....

It also comes with some drawbacks, like higher costs and how some want to get paid for the services they used to provide for free. Back when I used to be able to do Mullin's "99 dollar Boogie till ya puke" and my cost per jump was about 7 bucks, I used to jump with ANYONE and would often do "free" coaching all weekend. Now that jumps cost 25 dollars a jump I find that I jump less and therefore jump and coach for "free" less.

Some think that makes me a bad person.... But I have a budget for skydiving and my team training takes up most of it every mth. Add to that that I was transferred last year, had to sell my house at a loss, moved to a MUCH higher cost city with no additional pay, have not been able to get instructor work at the new DZ, and my budget has gotten tighter so I have even less discretionary income.

And anyone that knows me, knows that I give free coaching on the ground pretty much ALL the time. I'd LOVE to jump more.... I just will not go into debt to do it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Southern_Man 0]

Ron,

this is a very reasonable response and I don't think anybody should have an issue with it.

I'm a newer jumper, so sort of on the other side of the fence. I love to jump with just about anybody. I'll jump w/ other newbies and just have fun, even if the dive plan gets away from us just out the door (try not to do this but it happens). I learn a lot more when I jump with more experienced jumpers, though and am happy when asked or organized. I make sure to tell people my jump numbers before I jump with them so that they can decide if they want to jump with me or not, some do, some don't, I don't have a problem with either one.

I am fairly close to eligibility for a coach rating but at this point I can realistically say my skills are not up to par. I don't know if they will be there at 150 jumps or not (some tunnel time would help). When my skills are up to par I will probably go for my rating, but there is no rush. The sky isn't going anywhere.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Wings-n-Things 0]

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I got my coach's rating for one reason. New jumpers, those off AFF but not licensed, need someone there for reference point. I am someone to dock with, someone to track away from, someone to to see if they are backsliding. I can lay a stable base for them to work from. I can fall a little faster, or slow down to help them learn those skills. I can tell them to watch on their 360s and I can actually move a little to the side to help them learn to side body. And sometimes I am just someone to brag to, "Wow, we did it." You don't need to be Mr Super Skydiver or God's Gift to the DZ to do that.

I am thankful for all the help I got when I needed it and am proud to do my little part in making it fun.

THIS.

Card carrying member of the
Nanny State Liberation Front

[rehmwa 2]

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Back when I used to be able to do Mullin's "99 dollar Boogie till ya puke" and my cost per jump was about 7 bucks, I used to jump with ANYONE and would often do "free" coaching all weekend. Now that jumps cost 25 dollars a jump I find that I jump less and therefore jump and coach for "free" less.

Some think that makes me a bad person.... But I have a budget for skydiving and ........

And anyone that knows me, knows that I give free coaching on the ground pretty much ALL the time. I'd LOVE to jump more.... I just will not go into debt to do it.

This pretty much sums it up for me, hope you don't mind I just repost as 'likewise'

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kwzskydive 0]

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Also I like to add I think the SIMS recommends a coaching rating or STA approval to fly with tandems etc.

Actually it doesn't matter what the SIM says (although I don't know). It matters what the manufacturer says. I seen guidelines along the lines of 500 jumps, AFF rating, 200 camera jumps before jumping camera with tandem etc. Although I've never heard of any place actually following the written guidelines to the letter.

One manufacturer says that you need to be a Tandem I. An all should listen if there is an issue the manufacturer will not back you up.

[ILUVCHUTERS 1]

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I got my coach's rating for one reason. New jumpers, those off AFF but not licensed, need someone there for reference point. I am someone to dock with, someone to track away from, someone to to see if they are backsliding. I can lay a stable base for them to work from. I can fall a little faster, or slow down to help them learn those skills. I can tell them to watch on their 360s and I can actually move a little to the side to help them learn to side body. And sometimes I am just someone to brag to, "Wow, we did it." You don't need to be Mr Super Skydiver or God's Gift to the DZ to do that.

I am thankful for all the help I got when I needed it and am proud to do my little part in making it fun.

Same reason I got my Coach 1 rating (Canadians have a bit of a different coach rating system). I am allowed to jump with "Novices" and observe them in the air, but I am not allowed to touch them. I can teach them certain skills like front loops, back loops, barrel rolls, etc.

I remember how hard it was sometimes to get someone to jump with me at that stage, and I love going up and just watching them do stuff. They're so happy, and they have so much fun, and it makes it worth it for me.

Most of my jumps this year have been with novices, and junior jumpers just beginning to be allowed to do two-ways with others. And they've been some of my funnest jumps this year
I also just got my rating to teach First Jump Course. Different rating here (not sure how it works in the US). I worked my ass off and studied hard to pass that course, and it was tough. And I don't think having only 250 jumps or so disqualifies me from being a good teacher.

[DSE 3]

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And I don't think having only 250 jumps or so disqualifies me from being a good teacher.

It doesn't.
And it's silly for someone to think otherwise. Good teachers are those that exhibit a passion and a love for whatever they're teaching. That passion and love doesn't come from jump numbers, but there will always be people who think otherwise.