skyspike 0 #1 April 22, 2005 Hi! Is the lineset on the Xaos shorter than VX? Ive got a xaos27 94 now and it dives not that deep like the vx97 i had before - but it opens much nicer maybe one of you is able to tell me more about the differences?? i also own a velo and it opens like i mean its a great canopy but after a few openings like being in a rollercoaster i feel much more comfortable with my xaos - so this is my second question: what to you think about a xaos21 lineset on a velo?? i dont need all your doubts or " dont do this " comments. maybe we can write about this like experts however i would be happy for any information. BlueS Guido Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #2 April 22, 2005 huh i never jump neither xaos or velocity. but keep in mind that the canopy is designed and constructed for a specific lineset. and changing the lineset between "so much" different canopies could be dangerous... but i don't know the differences between thos two, so i think you should speak about this with both manufacturers, Velocity and xaos... "George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyspike 0 #3 April 22, 2005 thx for your reply. i know that just max 1% can answer my question! i dont want to talk with manufacturers i please want to know skydivers opinions with min 500 jps a year (like me ) i mean riggers swoopers just experts, k? late Guido"Der Tod stellt aus versorgungsrechtlicher Sicht die stärkste Form der Dienstunfähigkeit dar." (Unterrichtsblätter für die Bundeswehrverwaltung) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 14 #4 April 22, 2005 A Xaos line set will not work on a Velo. They are completley different designs and as such they need completly different line trim to open and fly correctly. Email PD and ask them, but I'm sure you won't like it when someone with only 250 jumps a year answers your question from them.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #5 April 22, 2005 Quotei know that just max 1% can answer my question! Us other 99% want to see the video of you trying it. In all seriousness, that was a joke, I would never wish harm on anyone, and the little I know about aerodynamics and airfoils says the line sets will change the shape of the airfoil shape, which could cause the wing to do all sorts of unplanned things without someone mathematically modeling the canopy to understand what the new airfoil would look like… But don’t pay attention to me, because don’t meet your 1% criteria. I wish you luck with your creativity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Treejumps 0 #6 April 22, 2005 A VX tends to be a worse opening canopy than a Xaso 27, and a velo tends to open better than both of them. If your Velo is opening poorly I would check the line set for wear, or maybe just to see if it was ever in spec. Problems happen. If you want your Xaos or VX to open better, get a dome slider for it from Mark at Skyworks. My VX opened om most of the time, but I had been bit once in a while. With the dome slider its very smooth. Have fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #7 April 22, 2005 Mark's dome slider worked great on a Sabre1 I know of - the owner can now jump it at terminal. My VX97 opens just fine but I would think about the dome slider if/when it starts to act up or if the slider needs replacement. rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #8 April 22, 2005 QuoteMark's dome slider worked great on a Sabre1 I know of - the owner can now jump it at terminal. My VX97 opens just fine but I would think about the dome slider if/when it starts to act up or if the slider needs replacement. rm I made sure to buy a VX made in Spain.... rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #9 April 22, 2005 Quoteand a velo tends to open better than both of them. Uhhh...yeah, right.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #10 April 22, 2005 QuoteI made sure to buy a VX made in Spain.... So you get hard openings that were created overseas? The VX opens well enough now that the design has evolved in the years the canopy has been produced. The Xaos is an improvement in openings on the VX for sure, and I've not Found a Velocity that can match them either. The 21 cell Xaos is near identical to an FX with some improvements in openings and flight. The linsets for those two canopies should be interchangeable, though why you'd want to put Vectran on anything is beyond me. The VX and Xaos 27 are more of a departure from one another so I wouldn't advise putting a VX linset on a Xaos. The Xaos has been re-trimed to alow for (IMO) a much nicer set of riser presures, and openings. If you have a poor opening FX or VX and your due for a reline Precision can do an "X" mod for less than $500 including a new HMA lineset, and modification of the endcells of the canopy along with a new slider makin either canopy a much nicer wing (again IMO)---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BBKid 0 #11 April 22, 2005 That's what I was thinking...someone with far more experience likened the relationship between the Velocity's opening and subsequent flight to a girl kicking you in the nuts before she goes down on you...he should treat his girlfriend better. Nick --------------------------- "I've pierced my foot on a spike!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #12 April 22, 2005 Quotesomeone with far more experience likened the relationship between the Velocity's opening and subsequent flight to a girl kicking you in the nuts before she goes down on you...he should treat his girlfriend better. HA!, I don't know how the Velo got into this discussion, but I like the way they fly, just hate the openings.....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #13 April 22, 2005 QuoteQuoteI made sure to buy a VX made in Spain.... So you get hard openings that were created overseas? I had an FX build by Precision - I did NOT want my VX to be made by them. Like I said, my VX (from Spain) opens nice - no complaints. Two teammates with Velocities do some complaining about their openings. rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyspike 0 #14 April 22, 2005 Hi! Rob, you got my VX man i liked flying it very much. Sorry for being or writing like i am one of 1% skygods or so! I just thought only 1% is able to tell me how it works with "tuned" line sets, longer risers n stuff uno? I jump as much as i can BlueS Guido"Der Tod stellt aus versorgungsrechtlicher Sicht die stärkste Form der Dienstunfähigkeit dar." (Unterrichtsblätter für die Bundeswehrverwaltung) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Treejumps 0 #15 April 23, 2005 Longer risers definitely helped my VX openings. Mine are about 26". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #16 April 23, 2005 QuoteHA!, I don't know how the Velo got into this discussion, but I like the way they fly, just hate the openings..... I haven't jumped a Xaos in a couple years, and heven't jumped a VX since they were considered 'not for terminal', so I don't know how the new ones open, but in what area to they open better than the Velo? What seems to the main complaint people have witht the openings on the Velo? My experience has always been good with the Velo openings, and I'm just wondering what the VX or Xaos does that could be better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #17 April 23, 2005 Don't have a huge amount of jumps on VX's....I just know that the newer ones I've jumped have not hammered open like the first ones I've jumped. As for the Velo.....the wild hunting and seeking plus the somewhat frequent hammering openings. In over 2000 Xaos jumps on 6+ Xaos canopies I've had one "bad" opening. Line twists.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites murps2000 86 #18 April 23, 2005 So you get hard openings that were created overseas? I had an FX build by Precision - I did NOT want my VX to be made by them. Like I said, my VX (from Spain) opens nice - no complaints. Two teammates with Velocities do some complaining about their openings. *** Did you have brutal openings on your Precision built FX? I did on mine, and I wouldn't have believed the steering line mod that I got would have fixed it, but it did. Now it's the best opening canopy I've ever owned, without the dome slider, which is a cumbersome, band-aid fix. Try collapsing a tandem slider on an FX almost in full flight, while trying to avoid traffic at 2500'. I also think the X-mod is a waste of money. Why put almost $500 into a canopy that you might be able to sell for $800 in decent condition? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RMURRAY 1 #19 April 24, 2005 QuoteSo you get hard openings that were created overseas? I had an FX build by Precision - I did NOT want my VX to be made by them. Like I said, my VX (from Spain) opens nice - no complaints. Two teammates with Velocities do some complaining about their openings. *** Did you have brutal openings on your Precision built FX? I did on mine, yes, it opened hard - sometimes. I moved on the the (made in Spain) VX and all is well...so the dome slider is a pain in the ass to stow? why don't you like it? rm rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites murps2000 86 #20 April 25, 2005 yes, it opened hard - sometimes. I moved on the the (made in Spain) VX and all is well...so the dome slider is a pain in the ass to stow? why don't you like it? *** Well, in my case, my FX was an early Precision built, and it started slamming me repeatedly. But another thing I didn't like was the brake settings. They were maybe 1/4 brakes or something, which would still mean a fairly high descent rate and forward speed after opening. The dome slider for mine (a 110) was huge; it was 28 x 22 inches at the grommet centerlines. It helped the openings, but they were still weird. It would feel like the initial snatch that jerked me feet to earth was rather abrupt, but then the slider would inflate and settle the canopy down. After canopy inflation, it would then come down and begin flapping madly because of the minimal brake setting determined by the cat's eye location on the lower set. So, after opening at 2500', I could never seem to catch the thing and get it collapsed and stowed without losing at least 1000' of altitude before unstowing my brakes. I think most would agree that you'd want them unstowed a little higher than that in the interest of safety. I discussed the problem with someone fairly knowledgeable about such things, was told that the construction of a new set of modified brake lines would cure the problem, and that afterward I could put my old slider back on. The modification was simply adding three inches to the two most inboard lines of the cascades, and moving the cat's eye up the lines 6 inches. The results were unbelieveable. I have the old slider back on and the canopy has not slammed me in the last hundred jumps since I had the modified lines installed. In fact, as I've stated, it is now the best opening canopy I've ever owned. And now that the brakes are set deeper, after opening it takes no more than 500' of altitude to get my housework done. As somewhat of a disclaimer, however, I have to add that, although this worked remarkably for my canopy, I cannot advise anyone else experiencing the same problems on how to modify their brake lines to deal with them, particularly if they have a different size FX. I have no idea how Icarus has modified the line sets on FX's over the years, or what effect a similar mod might have to another canopy. But I will say that the effect the mod had on my canopy did illustrate quite clearly to me that the dome slider is a band-aid, and does not address the actual flaw in design. In my case it turned out to be a waste of about $150. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyspike 0 #21 April 25, 2005 Thanks for all replies! Xaos and VX is the same except the lines. I have never heard before that longer risers or lines helps for good openings, ... ok - sounds good. i think the lines from xaos are shorter - iam nearly sure - they must because of the much shorter "recovery arch". Next weekend a friend with his vx is @ the dz so i can compare the lines on nearly same sized canopies myself. Somebody tried to sew a hma non cascadet lineset for the velo but it was to bad to find the right sizes. However my xaos is great and i like a lill more than my velo because of softer i mean a bit more controlled openings. BlueS Guido"Der Tod stellt aus versorgungsrechtlicher Sicht die stärkste Form der Dienstunfähigkeit dar." (Unterrichtsblätter für die Bundeswehrverwaltung) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 14 #22 April 25, 2005 Xaos is not an VX. There are large changes to the entire Xaos line of canopies that make them different then an Icarus canopy and that goes well beyond just HMA lines. New line trim, different dimentions, and the Stabli-rib are just a few of the changes.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites johnny1488 1 #23 April 25, 2005 Actully I think you almost had it. The lines are different (HMA) The trim is different (and the lines continuous) Stabilribs are added The nose was closed off The slider has brass grommets. There is latteral reinforcement tape on the bottom skin. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 14 #24 April 25, 2005 I believe that different construction techniques were used as well. I thought the aspect ratio was even slightly different too.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites blitzkrieg 0 #25 April 26, 2005 Quote A VX tends to be a worse opening canopy than a Xaso 27, agreed. jumped an older vx that absolutely hammered the crap out of me.... never again. Quoteand a velo tends to open better than both of them. in my experience, there isn't anything that opens better than a xaos21, with the xaos27 right behind it. although i do love the way the velo flies. a cheasy clip with a xaos27opening... http://www.sixstringer.com/xaos27.mpg cheers... ~E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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skyspike 0 #14 April 22, 2005 Hi! Rob, you got my VX man i liked flying it very much. Sorry for being or writing like i am one of 1% skygods or so! I just thought only 1% is able to tell me how it works with "tuned" line sets, longer risers n stuff uno? I jump as much as i can BlueS Guido"Der Tod stellt aus versorgungsrechtlicher Sicht die stärkste Form der Dienstunfähigkeit dar." (Unterrichtsblätter für die Bundeswehrverwaltung) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Treejumps 0 #15 April 23, 2005 Longer risers definitely helped my VX openings. Mine are about 26". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #16 April 23, 2005 QuoteHA!, I don't know how the Velo got into this discussion, but I like the way they fly, just hate the openings..... I haven't jumped a Xaos in a couple years, and heven't jumped a VX since they were considered 'not for terminal', so I don't know how the new ones open, but in what area to they open better than the Velo? What seems to the main complaint people have witht the openings on the Velo? My experience has always been good with the Velo openings, and I'm just wondering what the VX or Xaos does that could be better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #17 April 23, 2005 Don't have a huge amount of jumps on VX's....I just know that the newer ones I've jumped have not hammered open like the first ones I've jumped. As for the Velo.....the wild hunting and seeking plus the somewhat frequent hammering openings. In over 2000 Xaos jumps on 6+ Xaos canopies I've had one "bad" opening. Line twists.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murps2000 86 #18 April 23, 2005 So you get hard openings that were created overseas? I had an FX build by Precision - I did NOT want my VX to be made by them. Like I said, my VX (from Spain) opens nice - no complaints. Two teammates with Velocities do some complaining about their openings. *** Did you have brutal openings on your Precision built FX? I did on mine, and I wouldn't have believed the steering line mod that I got would have fixed it, but it did. Now it's the best opening canopy I've ever owned, without the dome slider, which is a cumbersome, band-aid fix. Try collapsing a tandem slider on an FX almost in full flight, while trying to avoid traffic at 2500'. I also think the X-mod is a waste of money. Why put almost $500 into a canopy that you might be able to sell for $800 in decent condition? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #19 April 24, 2005 QuoteSo you get hard openings that were created overseas? I had an FX build by Precision - I did NOT want my VX to be made by them. Like I said, my VX (from Spain) opens nice - no complaints. Two teammates with Velocities do some complaining about their openings. *** Did you have brutal openings on your Precision built FX? I did on mine, yes, it opened hard - sometimes. I moved on the the (made in Spain) VX and all is well...so the dome slider is a pain in the ass to stow? why don't you like it? rm rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murps2000 86 #20 April 25, 2005 yes, it opened hard - sometimes. I moved on the the (made in Spain) VX and all is well...so the dome slider is a pain in the ass to stow? why don't you like it? *** Well, in my case, my FX was an early Precision built, and it started slamming me repeatedly. But another thing I didn't like was the brake settings. They were maybe 1/4 brakes or something, which would still mean a fairly high descent rate and forward speed after opening. The dome slider for mine (a 110) was huge; it was 28 x 22 inches at the grommet centerlines. It helped the openings, but they were still weird. It would feel like the initial snatch that jerked me feet to earth was rather abrupt, but then the slider would inflate and settle the canopy down. After canopy inflation, it would then come down and begin flapping madly because of the minimal brake setting determined by the cat's eye location on the lower set. So, after opening at 2500', I could never seem to catch the thing and get it collapsed and stowed without losing at least 1000' of altitude before unstowing my brakes. I think most would agree that you'd want them unstowed a little higher than that in the interest of safety. I discussed the problem with someone fairly knowledgeable about such things, was told that the construction of a new set of modified brake lines would cure the problem, and that afterward I could put my old slider back on. The modification was simply adding three inches to the two most inboard lines of the cascades, and moving the cat's eye up the lines 6 inches. The results were unbelieveable. I have the old slider back on and the canopy has not slammed me in the last hundred jumps since I had the modified lines installed. In fact, as I've stated, it is now the best opening canopy I've ever owned. And now that the brakes are set deeper, after opening it takes no more than 500' of altitude to get my housework done. As somewhat of a disclaimer, however, I have to add that, although this worked remarkably for my canopy, I cannot advise anyone else experiencing the same problems on how to modify their brake lines to deal with them, particularly if they have a different size FX. I have no idea how Icarus has modified the line sets on FX's over the years, or what effect a similar mod might have to another canopy. But I will say that the effect the mod had on my canopy did illustrate quite clearly to me that the dome slider is a band-aid, and does not address the actual flaw in design. In my case it turned out to be a waste of about $150. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyspike 0 #21 April 25, 2005 Thanks for all replies! Xaos and VX is the same except the lines. I have never heard before that longer risers or lines helps for good openings, ... ok - sounds good. i think the lines from xaos are shorter - iam nearly sure - they must because of the much shorter "recovery arch". Next weekend a friend with his vx is @ the dz so i can compare the lines on nearly same sized canopies myself. Somebody tried to sew a hma non cascadet lineset for the velo but it was to bad to find the right sizes. However my xaos is great and i like a lill more than my velo because of softer i mean a bit more controlled openings. BlueS Guido"Der Tod stellt aus versorgungsrechtlicher Sicht die stärkste Form der Dienstunfähigkeit dar." (Unterrichtsblätter für die Bundeswehrverwaltung) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 14 #22 April 25, 2005 Xaos is not an VX. There are large changes to the entire Xaos line of canopies that make them different then an Icarus canopy and that goes well beyond just HMA lines. New line trim, different dimentions, and the Stabli-rib are just a few of the changes.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #23 April 25, 2005 Actully I think you almost had it. The lines are different (HMA) The trim is different (and the lines continuous) Stabilribs are added The nose was closed off The slider has brass grommets. There is latteral reinforcement tape on the bottom skin. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 14 #24 April 25, 2005 I believe that different construction techniques were used as well. I thought the aspect ratio was even slightly different too.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blitzkrieg 0 #25 April 26, 2005 Quote A VX tends to be a worse opening canopy than a Xaso 27, agreed. jumped an older vx that absolutely hammered the crap out of me.... never again. Quoteand a velo tends to open better than both of them. in my experience, there isn't anything that opens better than a xaos21, with the xaos27 right behind it. although i do love the way the velo flies. a cheasy clip with a xaos27opening... http://www.sixstringer.com/xaos27.mpg cheers... ~E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
