AndyMan 7 #1 April 18, 2005 I saw a drogue-in-tow malfunction on a Strong rig over the weekend. After landing the TM said the rig appeared to be packed and assembled correctly. Both drogue release handles were pulled, but something kept the mechanism from opening. Video showed the drogue fully inflated, with no aparent misroutings. I didn't get a chance to ask the Rigger his thoughts. Is there a common packing error that would cause a drogue in tow on a Strong? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #2 April 18, 2005 Have someone post the video. Be safe. Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John4455 0 #3 April 18, 2005 Twice I have seen the tuck tabs on the inner flaps of the main container not come open and hold the bag in place. On each occasion you saw on video the bag "stand up" but not lift off. The first time it happened to me about a year ago, and the second time it happened to another TI at my DZ this past weekend. How do ya like it Johnny? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropzonefool 0 #4 April 18, 2005 It happened to me on a Vector 2 this weekend also. I was considering posting it but then I decided not to. At 5.5K I pulled the main drouge release and no trap door! I always gear check before donning and the release cables were routed correctly and not doubled through. As I put my hand on the second release handle the canopy slammed open, wait I mean it SLAMMED open! My audible set for 3.5 started ringing as I was looking up at about 6 linetwists. So that 2000' in about 5-6 seconds. I believe the drouge was collapsed after I pulled the main handle, why I didn't get trap door I don't know. The video revieled the contianer opened but the bag stayed on my back kinda hung out there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #5 April 18, 2005 I'd love to see the video. If the drogue collapsed, you would have felt the trap door. You would also have rapidly fallen out of frame on the video. The 3-ring makes a great canopy release, but it made quite a mediocre drogue release...especially with the double ended loops for the dual handle drogue release. Even when rigged correctly, they sometimes cause a hesitation because of the stiffness imparted by sewing such a small piece of line together. This might have been what happened to you. Pulling the second handle would have cleared up this situation. The only real solution I know for this problem is to get a Sigma. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murps2000 86 #6 April 18, 2005 Did the TM have to use the reserve, or did the drogue eventually release? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #7 April 18, 2005 In the case I saw, it resulted in a reserve ride. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murps2000 86 #8 April 18, 2005 I was taught in the Strong tandem course that when jumping a rig you haven't jumped before, one of the things to check is the little flaps that cover the drogue release mechanism. They have velcro on them, but it is supposed to configured a certain way. If the "hook" peice of velcro is facing outward, it is correct. If it is facing inward (i.e. toward the three ring), it has been installed incorrectly, and can actually catch the nylon loop (both ends) on the three ring and hold it with sufficient force as to prevent release. It is a rare occurrence, to be sure, but my TE led me to believe that it has happened before. It is also something, that if wasn't known about, might be easy to overlook upon examining the gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #9 April 19, 2005 QuoteTwice I have seen the tuck tabs on the inner flaps of the main container not come open and hold the bag in place. On each occasion you saw on video the bag "stand up" but not lift off. The first time it happened to me about a year ago, and the second time it happened to another TI at my DZ this past weekend. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wow! Are you still using that antiquated, (Spandura)anti-bag-dump top flap in your Strong tandems? As soon as the dual main loop was introduced, I converted all of our tandem rigs. Strong Enterprises mailed me a bunch of new (Cordura) main top flaps, so I cut off the old (Spandura) top flaps before sewing in the new flaps and adding a second grommet to the bottom flaps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John4455 0 #10 April 19, 2005 Our rigs have the two loop closing system. The top flap still has the tuck tabs on them. The packers were told not to tuck the tabs. (or so I thought) The drogue in tow that we experienced were only hesitations and cleared before initiating emergency procedures. How do ya like it Johnny? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pullhigh 0 #11 April 20, 2005 Been there, done that, no t-shirt.... Scariest shit I've ever lived through. Not sure to this day why it happened, but there was speculation at the time about the main being packed "narrow and tall" and that nay have pinched off the drouge release 3 rings. All I know is that dumping that reserve into a drouge in tow was the scariest thing I've ever done. It all came out all right for me obviously. Once the reserve was inflated, I felt the main D-bag hit me in the back of my legs, and I got rid of that shit in a hurry. Witnesses told me later that as I got rid of the main, it as actually inflating behind me... Twice as many arms, twice as many legs, a pilot chute in tow and someone strapped to your chest trying to kill you, what more fun can you have? In all seriousness, I love doing tandems, Ganja "Where's my t-shirt?" Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #12 April 20, 2005 The strangest drogue mal I've seen was on an Eclispe rig. The dacron wrapped ring that served as a stop on the drogue kill line hung up on the bottom of the drogue where it attaches to the bridle. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #13 April 20, 2005 The packers were told not to tuck the tabs. (or so I thought) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I solved that problem by sewing the tuck tab pockets SHUT! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #14 April 21, 2005 I've seen that problem solved by cutting the tuck tabs off... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSEMN8R 0 #15 April 21, 2005 What are the tuck tabs supposed to do? Is there any disadvantage to not using them? Ours are all curved now so they rarely stay tucked in anyways, but even when they were new and flat it's hard to imagine them being strong enough to hold the container closed with the drouge released. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #16 April 22, 2005 Quote The only real solution I know for this problem is to get a Sigma. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.) Well I know another solution: SEND ME A SIGMA ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #17 April 22, 2005 QuoteBeen there, done that, no t-shirt.... Scariest shit I've ever lived through. Not sure to this day why it happened, but there was speculation at the time about the main being packed "narrow and tall" and that nay have pinched off the drouge release 3 rings. All I know is that dumping that reserve into a drouge in tow was the scariest thing I've ever done. It all came out all right for me obviously. Once the reserve was inflated, I felt the main D-bag hit me in the back of my legs, and I got rid of that shit in a hurry. Witnesses told me later that as I got rid of the main, it as actually inflating behind me... Twice as many arms, twice as many legs, a pilot chute in tow and someone strapped to your chest trying to kill you, what more fun can you have? In all seriousness, I love doing tandems, Ganja "Where's my t-shirt?" Rodriguez ??????? You do not breakaway after you have pulled the droque-release??? Personally I have a different opinion ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pullhigh 0 #18 April 22, 2005 There was a long debate about it at the time it happened, here on DZ.com... Two school's of thought, but bottom line is, we both walked away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropzonefool 0 #19 April 22, 2005 You do not breakaway after you have pulled the droque-release<<<<<< It really depends on the drouge, since this thread is about a drouge in tow, I take it for granted it is also collapsed. With a collapsed drouge in tow the tandem pair will quickly increase to tandem terminal about 1000 ft ever 3.5 seconds, also it may be too fast to deploy a reserve and it blow up. So I would think a Tandem Instructor may wish to dump the reserve immediately than breakaway.opinions may vary Sorta like pull.. the main side drouge release, second later pull the student drouge release handle... still nothing, what do you do? I think a Tandem Instructor should have a survival plan for this situation. Now, if the drouge is still inflated, but in tow after pulling the drouge release handles there may be time [altitude] to breakaway first. What do you guys think about this survival plan? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dropzonefool 0 #20 April 22, 2005 I'll try to get the video to you, at pull time the video guy goes to a sitfly to video the opening so he was still with us in free fall. Trap door, ofcourse you know this already, but.. I consider the feeling to be of two parts, first the drouge collapses so the pair speeds up, then the D-bag deploys from the tray an rapidly decelerates the pair and I feel like we sorta swing under the main canopy. This is not what happened, There was no swinging feeling as the D bag decelerated us, it just Slammed open after hesitating at pull time. The video revealed the D-bag stayed on my back and rolled around causing the linetwist. I believe there was a problem with the drouge, it was switched out and the rest of the jumps that day went well. Thank you for posting Bill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverton 0 #21 April 23, 2005 Quote You do not breakaway after you have pulled the droque-release<<<<<< It really depends on the drouge, since this thread is about a drouge in tow, I take it for granted it is also collapsed. With a collapsed drouge in tow the tandem pair will quickly increase to tandem terminal about 1000 ft ever 3.5 seconds, also it may be too fast to deploy a reserve and it blow up. So I would think a Tandem Instructor may wish to dump the reserve immediately than breakaway.opinions may vary Sorta like pull.. the main side drouge release, second later pull the student drouge release handle... still nothing, what do you do? I think a Tandem Instructor should have a survival plan for this situation. Now, if the drouge is still inflated, but in tow after pulling the drouge release handles there may be time [altitude] to breakaway first. What do you guys think about this survival plan? Personnaly, I have the opinion. When I have pulled at least one droquerelease I will breakaway first. Inflated droque or not. I do not like the risk of a 2 out situation. Only if you have not pulled a droquereleased (double hardpull on the droquereleases) I will only pull the reserve. tandemreserves have been designed for tandemterminal openings! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shark 0 #22 April 23, 2005 Quoteopinions may vary We go with the manufacturer's recommendations outlined in the manual. The RWS Sigma manual has a nice flow chart as a supplement. QuoteI think a Tandem Instructor should have a survival plan for this situation. They're called emergency procedures. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dropzonefool 0 #23 April 23, 2005 tandemreserves have been designed for tandemterminal openings!<<<<<<<<<< Really? sure about that. I thought I was positave I knew the answer. Now you have me questioning it, so I will look at the warning tag today on a tandem reserve and see what the opening speed marked on it is and I'll get back to you. I was trained that if you do not have your drouge out by 8000' or 10 seconds to pull your reserve. Thank for posting Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dropzonefool 0 #24 April 23, 2005 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
dropzonefool 0 #20 April 22, 2005 I'll try to get the video to you, at pull time the video guy goes to a sitfly to video the opening so he was still with us in free fall. Trap door, ofcourse you know this already, but.. I consider the feeling to be of two parts, first the drouge collapses so the pair speeds up, then the D-bag deploys from the tray an rapidly decelerates the pair and I feel like we sorta swing under the main canopy. This is not what happened, There was no swinging feeling as the D bag decelerated us, it just Slammed open after hesitating at pull time. The video revealed the D-bag stayed on my back and rolled around causing the linetwist. I believe there was a problem with the drouge, it was switched out and the rest of the jumps that day went well. Thank you for posting Bill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #21 April 23, 2005 Quote You do not breakaway after you have pulled the droque-release<<<<<< It really depends on the drouge, since this thread is about a drouge in tow, I take it for granted it is also collapsed. With a collapsed drouge in tow the tandem pair will quickly increase to tandem terminal about 1000 ft ever 3.5 seconds, also it may be too fast to deploy a reserve and it blow up. So I would think a Tandem Instructor may wish to dump the reserve immediately than breakaway.opinions may vary Sorta like pull.. the main side drouge release, second later pull the student drouge release handle... still nothing, what do you do? I think a Tandem Instructor should have a survival plan for this situation. Now, if the drouge is still inflated, but in tow after pulling the drouge release handles there may be time [altitude] to breakaway first. What do you guys think about this survival plan? Personnaly, I have the opinion. When I have pulled at least one droquerelease I will breakaway first. Inflated droque or not. I do not like the risk of a 2 out situation. Only if you have not pulled a droquereleased (double hardpull on the droquereleases) I will only pull the reserve. tandemreserves have been designed for tandemterminal openings! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #22 April 23, 2005 Quoteopinions may vary We go with the manufacturer's recommendations outlined in the manual. The RWS Sigma manual has a nice flow chart as a supplement. QuoteI think a Tandem Instructor should have a survival plan for this situation. They're called emergency procedures. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropzonefool 0 #23 April 23, 2005 tandemreserves have been designed for tandemterminal openings!<<<<<<<<<< Really? sure about that. I thought I was positave I knew the answer. Now you have me questioning it, so I will look at the warning tag today on a tandem reserve and see what the opening speed marked on it is and I'll get back to you. I was trained that if you do not have your drouge out by 8000' or 10 seconds to pull your reserve. Thank for posting Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dropzonefool 0 #24 April 23, 2005 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
