Should I pay this outrageous speeding fine?

[Nataly 38]

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[What I and Robert were pointing out is, yes it is wrong to drive without the correct coverage but in some instances we understand why people do it.

I hear what you're saying.. I just find it hard to believe that the people who drive without insurance have NO other options. You *really* couldn't get a lift from anyone temporarily? There is NO public transportation? You HAVE to work where you do? You have NOTHING else you can cut out of your budget? Like cable, or eating out? You don't have a single thing you could sell to find the money?

Come on.. I acknowledge that there are cases where people are under extreme financial distress, but I really think this is NOT the norm for people who drive without insurance. I think they choose to save on this rather than something else, and by doing so they could be impacting on someone else's financial situation. I don't think saving on car insurance is the right decision, but sure, I believe that in a VERY, VERY small number of cases it seems like the only option. It's still a choice (and in my opinion, a bad one).

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[theonlyski 3]

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I hear what you're saying.. I just find it hard to believe that the people who drive without insurance have NO other options. You *really* couldn't get a lift from anyone temporarily? There is NO public transportation? You HAVE to work where you do? You have NOTHING else you can cut out of your budget? Like cable, or eating out? You don't have a single thing you could sell to find the money?

I was 18-19, the only thing I had that was worth more than 50 bucks would have been my car. I was paying rent, water, electricity, college loans (that I ended up deffering whenever I could). I worked for an internet company so I used the internet there. Had a cell phone in case of emergencies (lots of family stuff going on)

I did what I had to do, I got caught and paid the price. I ate maybe once a day for weeks on end just so I could afford the bills.

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Come on.. I acknowledge that there are cases where people are under extreme financial distress, but I really think this is NOT the norm for people who drive without insurance. I think they choose to save on this rather than something else, and by doing so they could be impacting on someone else's financial situation. I don't think saving on car insurance is the right decision, but sure, I believe that in a VERY, VERY small number of cases it seems like the only option. It's still a choice (and in my opinion, a bad one).

There is a very small percentage of people that do have a reason and no means to pay for the insurance. Not everyone has a good job, could afford an education, or had parents that were there to help them out financially.

Now, as for the guys who CAN afford it, and dont get it... THAT is wrong.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[Nataly 38]

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I did what I had to do, I got caught and paid the price. I ate maybe once a day for weeks on end just so I could afford the bills.

So you could afford the penalty but not the insurance??

Hmm...

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[theonlyski 3]

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I did what I had to do, I got caught and paid the price. I ate maybe once a day for weeks on end just so I could afford the bills.

So you could afford the penalty but not the insurance??

Hmm...

Eventually, yes. I got a payment plan so I paid the charges off during the course of a few months, using my last paycheck to completely finish them.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[Nataly 38]

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I did what I had to do, I got caught and paid the price. I ate maybe once a day for weeks on end just so I could afford the bills.

So you could afford the penalty but not the insurance??

Hmm...

Eventually, yes. I got a payment plan so I paid the charges off during the course of a few months, using my last paycheck to completely finish them.

Did your insurance not provide you with any flexibility on payments? Did you ask? Did you shop around? Or did you pay the fine because the impact affected *you* whereas the insurance only affected a hypothetical other person..?

Again.. Hmm..

Rarely are people left with NO OPTIONS. They make choices. Sometimes options are limited and choices are hard to make. But there are VERY few circumstances where I would agree that not paying insurance & still driving was the *right* choice.

I don't know all your circumstances, but you're going to find it hard to convince me - why don't we agree to disagree. After all, mine is only an opinion - people are entitled to have different points of view.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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...the only thing I had that was worth more than 50 bucks would have been my car.

Interesting that you (and Turtle) didn't have money for insurance, yet you had the resources to fully cover damages, medical costs, and lost wages for yourself and any and all second/third parties, had you caused an accident. Surely, if you had caused an accident and put someone in the hospital and out of work, you wouldn't have screwed them over and walked (or run) away from your responsibilities?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[GeorgiaDon 340]

I like the system of no-fault insurance they have in British Columbia (I don't know if other provinces have this). Basically, you insure yourself for as much coverage as you think you will need, and in the event of an accident your own insurance covers your expenses, regardless of who is at fault. Also you get your license plate from the insurance agent, so if you cancel your insurance you must turn in your plates. If a vehicle has plates, it is insured, so we didn't have any issues with uninsured drivers. As a poor graduate student I could afford a $2 million dollar policy, which would have covered long-term care and lost future income if I (or anybody riding in my car) had been permanently disabled.

When I moved to Arizona and tried to get similar coverage, I was told that it wasn't even available, and that policies for large amounts tended to attract lawsuits for the most minor fender-benders. Around 1992 there was a move to introduce no-fault insurance, but it required amending the state constitution as it involves giving up the right to sue following a car accident. The trial lawyer association poured a ton of money into a scare campaign that led to the measure being defeated at the polls. That's when I learned that American political ad campaigns are under no legal obligation to contain any recognizable element of truth.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[CanuckInUSA 0]

British Columbia is the last jurisdiction people should be looking to for examples on how to run auto insurance. It is a government controlled entity where the consumer is not given any choice as to who they can insure with. It is either BC's ICBC insurance or the highway. Let's see, I am a new arrival to BC and I need some auto insurance. Do I get it from ICBC? or should I go next door to ICBC to see if they have something better? I know why don't I get in touch with ICBC to see how their rates are? I lived in BC from 2005-2006 and despite being a 20+ year driver with a relatively clean record (no accidents, hardly any moving violations) ICBC still treated me like a novice rookie driver since I had never before been in their ICBC system. I was being charged ridiculous premiums for the first six months while my driving record was processed through their bureaucracy. After six months, my premiums did go down but I was still paying double what I pay next door here in AB. You may want government controlling all aspect of your life, but I personally do not believe governments should be given monopolies in the auto insurance industry.

Getting back to the original topic of this thread. I have little sympathy for the OP for being caught speeding (though while technically he was speeding, he was not doing extreme speeds). But what gives with these bureaucrats rejecting the payments he sent in? I had something similar happen to me a few years back in [censored location]. I was caught with my pants down as I relieved myself in a back ally. The cops ticketed me. On the ticket the fine was clearly marked $15. I sent a check in for this amount only to have my check and the ticket mailed back to me telling me the fine was now $30. WTF ... I said ... I didn't pay it and to this day there is now a "non extraditable arrest warrant for me in [censored location]" all because some bureaucrat rejected my $15 payment for a ticket that was clearly marked $15. Of course I never set foot in [censored location], so who gives a rats ass if they have a "non extraditable arrest warrant" for me all because I got caught pissing on their shit hole of a city.

Finally ... if you drive, get some damn insurance. Driving is a privilege, not a right. I don't like spending money on insurance, but I know it is all part of the expense of driving. And for those of us who live outside of government controlled monopolies, you can get reasonable rates if you are a responsible driver with relatively clean driving records. I speed all the time, but I am never driving more than 10 or so clicks over the speed limits as I save my extreme speeds for when I am at my local race track doing DE Track Days.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Bolas 5]

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I did what I had to do, I got caught and paid the price. I ate maybe once a day for weeks on end just so I could afford the bills.

So you could afford the penalty but not the insurance??

Hmm...

Eventually, yes. I got a payment plan so I paid the charges off during the course of a few months, using my last paycheck to completely finish them.

Did your insurance not provide you with any flexibility on payments? Did you ask? Did you shop around? Or did you pay the fine because the impact affected *you* whereas the insurance only affected a hypothetical other person..?

Again.. Hmm..

Rarely are people left with NO OPTIONS. They make choices. Sometimes options are limited and choices are hard to make. But there are VERY few circumstances where I would agree that not paying insurance & still driving was the *right* choice.

I don't know all your circumstances, but you're going to find it hard to convince me - why don't we agree to disagree. After all, mine is only an opinion - people are entitled to have different points of view.

If a fully insured driver and an uninsured driver get into an accident, regardless of fault.

The fully insured driver gets:
* All the health care and/or rehab they need.
* They get a loaner car while their car is being repaired or if totaled out, $$$ towards another car. (dependent on fault/level of coverage)


The uninsured driver:
* If at fault, gets nothing and now likely has no vehicle.
* If not at fault, now will likely be denied or severely limited compensation from the insurance company as they were driving illegally.
* Treated for immediate injuries but on their own for rehab.
* If at fault, could be sued or garnished later by the insurance company on future earnings.

You make it sound like there is no risk at all to the uninsured where they're actually taking the largest risk.

I think everyone should obey the law and have insurance, but also could see situations where people who are barely making it, right or wrong, may see it as their only option.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Bolas 5]

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I like the system of no-fault insurance they have in British Columbia (I don't know if other provinces have this). Basically, you insure yourself for as much coverage as you think you will need, and in the event of an accident your own insurance covers your expenses, regardless of who is at fault. Also you get your license plate from the insurance agent, so if you cancel your insurance you must turn in your plates. If a vehicle has plates, it is insured, so we didn't have any issues with uninsured drivers. As a poor graduate student I could afford a $2 million dollar policy, which would have covered long-term care and lost future income if I (or anybody riding in my car) had been permanently disabled.

When I moved to Arizona and tried to get similar coverage, I was told that it wasn't even available, and that policies for large amounts tended to attract lawsuits for the most minor fender-benders. Around 1992 there was a move to introduce no-fault insurance, but it required amending the state constitution as it involves giving up the right to sue following a car accident. The trial lawyer association poured a ton of money into a scare campaign that led to the measure being defeated at the polls. That's when I learned that American political ad campaigns are under no legal obligation to contain any recognizable element of truth.

Don

No fault? So I could register a dump truck in BC and go around smashing into cars and only have to pay for my repairs?

That's the problem with no fault, as someone always is. It can be shared, but if there was really no fault, there wouldn't have been a collision to begin with.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Nataly 38]

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You make it sound like there is no risk at all to the uninsured where they're actually taking the largest risk.

Why should I pay for extra insurance because some other dipshit isn't paying for their insurance??? I don't care if the uninsured driver has medical bills he/she can't afford as a result of an accident THEY SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAD in the first place because they are not legally allowed to drive without insurance.

Quite frankly the risks they are taking are NOT relevant to the discussion of whether it's fair on OTHERS that they don't have insurance.

And for the record, a fully insured driver does NOT get a free ride straight to la-la-land where everything is miraculously solved for them. They get screwed up the ass in more ways than one because most insurance is not designed to look after you when you are not at fault. And the insurance that is designed to do just that is more expensive. So that would mean that I have to pay for the uninsured fuck that wrecks my life. Fucking great. *Excellent* solution. Much better than getting the uninsured drivers either

-insured
-off the fucking roads

There. Rant over.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[GeorgiaDon 340]

No-fault and government run are separate issues. Although I didn't have the issues you describe when I moved from Ontario to BC (in 1985, maybe things changed after that), I can agree with you that I don't like the government monopoly in BC either. However, even for private for-profit insurance companies, no-fault is more economically efficient as they don't have to deal with lawsuits to try to recover their expenses from the other party.

It is also a fact that when I moved from BC to Arizona, where many private insurance companies compete, no company offered coverage similar to what I had in BC, and I ended up paying more for markedly inferior coverage. So where was the advantage supposedly offered by private competition?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[turtlespeed 212]

>Most of my jobs when I lived in Dallas were 50 to 75 miles away. What
>would you have me do?

>>>Move.
Ok . . . lets think rationally about this. If I had the money to move, don't you think that I could pay the insurance?

>>>Get a different job.
OK, that is an immediate fix? Or should I take the time to go to school nfor a change of careers?

>>>Get a ride.
From Whom?

>>>Take the train/bus.
Not an option, what if there isn't public transportation in the town I live in?

>>>Telecommute.
Not an option in my career field

>The maximum of my insurance has been reached, some months ago,
>and I now have the wonderful opportunity to either lose my vehicle for
>non payment, or not pay the insurance for two months while the
>insurance annual limit rolls over again.

>What would you do?

>>>See above. Put the child above the desire for a car.
The car is a necessity for getting the child to the medical appointments and treatments.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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No fault? So I could register a dump truck in BC and go around smashing into cars and only have to pay for my repairs?

I suppose you could do that if you wanted to. You'd likely find yourself charged with anything from careless driving to aggravated assault, though, so you'd have more to deal with than just paying for your own repairs. Also you'd find yourself uninsurable, so you'd have to turn in the plates on all your vehicles, which might complicate your future mobility some.

Unfortunately there's no such thing as a perfect system. With at-fault insurance, you have to go after the at-fault party to get compensation. They may have no insurance, or be underinsured, in which case you have to sue and go through the expense and time of the legal process, and most likely still end up collecting pennies on the dollar. People think of accidents as "wining the lottery", where you can get big settlements for a sore shoulder, but it rarely turns out that way.

On the other hand, with no-fault I give up the largely imaginary prospect of a life of leisure after a big settlement, but I can set the terms of how much coverage I have, so I can be sure that if I end up needing long-term care, or are so disabled I can't return to work, my care and lost income will be covered. As it is here in Georgia, I can't buy a automobile insurance policy like that, so I have to pay for separate disability insurance. I prefer to be able to define what I want to cover myself for, I don't like trusting that the other party will have enough insurance to take care of me should they cause an accident that leaves me disabled.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[turtlespeed 212]

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You make it sound like there is no risk at all to the uninsured where they're actually taking the largest risk.

Why should I pay for extra insurance because some other dipshit isn't paying for their insurance??? I don't care if the uninsured driver has medical bills he/she can't afford as a result of an accident THEY SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAD in the first place because they are not legally allowed to drive without insurance.

Quite frankly the risks they are taking are NOT relevant to the discussion of whether it's fair on OTHERS that they don't have insurance.

And for the record, a fully insured driver does NOT get a free ride straight to la-la-land where everything is miraculously solved for them. They get screwed up the ass in more ways than one because most insurance is not designed to look after you when you are not at fault. And the insurance that is designed to do just that is more expensive. So that would mean that I have to pay for the uninsured fuck that wrecks my life. Fucking great. *Excellent* solution. Much better than getting the uninsured drivers either

-insured
-off the fucking roads

There. Rant over.

What state do you live in?

Florida is a no fault state, so technically, only 50% of the drivers need be insured.

The minimums in Texas are barely enough to do anything more than fix, or total a car . . . let alone any major medical.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[champu 1]

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Nataly

What state do you live in?

[d_squared431 0]

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Nataly

What state do you live in?

LMAO....

TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1
I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH
You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly

[BillyVance 34]

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Nataly

What state do you live in?

LMAO....

He stuffed his mouth there pretty good huh?

Turtle.... Nataly lives in ENGLAND...

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[david3 0]

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Nataly

What state do you live in?

LMAO....

He stuffed his mouth there pretty good huh?

Turtle.... Nataly lives in ENGLAND...

The 51st State.


.

[d_squared431 0]

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Nataly

What state do you live in?

LMAO....

He stuffed his mouth there pretty good huh?

Turtle.... Nataly lives in ENGLAND...

Billy,
I think turtel was being a smart ass about what state she lives in. I know he normally isnt a smart ass in the forums so I can see why you might have been confused...

TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1
I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH
You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly

[rehmwa 2]

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Now, as for the guys who CAN afford it, and dont get it... THAT is wrong.

yeah, rules are for some, not for all, how can you expect to hold everybody to the same standards?

especially those with mad driving SkILZ

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[BillyVance 34]

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Nataly

What state do you live in?

LMAO....

He stuffed his mouth there pretty good huh?

Turtle.... Nataly lives in ENGLAND...

Billy,
I think turtel was being a smart ass about what state she lives in. I know he normally isnt a smart ass in the forums so I can see why you might have been confused...

He isn't normally a smart-ass?

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[BETO74 0]

I have not read any advic so i dont now if is already given go call one of those tcket clinic lawyers and fight ur case worse case u pay the fine no points i got 3 speeding tickets including a silly accident my fault I hit someone from behind and got away out that ticket too aldo it was my fault. my policy from a few years back I fight everything now it may cost u 200 more if you loose but is worth not having points and 80 of the cases I got a ticket they thew away anyway

http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html

[J_Cook 0]

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I have not read any advic so i dont now if is already given go call one of those tcket clinic lawyers and fight ur case worse case u pay the fine no points i got 3 speeding tickets including a silly accident my fault I hit someone from behind and got away out that ticket too aldo it was my fault. my policy from a few years back I fight everything now it may cost u 200 more if you loose but is worth not having points and 80 of the cases I got a ticket they thew away anyway

Translation: "I'll put others at risk just so I can get to my destination 3 minutes faster than if I followed the rules of the road. If I get caught, I'll just buy my way out of the ticket. Safety be damned"!

[Snowwhite 0]

were you speeding?

skydiveTaylorville.org
[email protected]