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bertusgeert

Should I pay this outrageous speeding fine?

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By the way . . . when was the last time your holier than thou self was down and out and in financial distress where it was either pay rent or insurance? When was the last time you had to actually MAKE a decision like that?



If I could not pay for insurance, then I would find alternate transportation.

The holier than thou self has had to pay THOUSANDs for accidents caused by other people who did not have insurance. This is in premium for "uninsured motorists" and for three acidents caused by uninsured motorists, two of which my car was parked.


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I find it better to ask questions and become informed before dealing out judgments about people.



Anyone who does not have insurance, for WHATEVER REASON, and drives - has NO EXCUSE in my book. I am sorry... Just because you are broke, you don't have the right to pass your financial liability on to others by driving... Park the car and walk. Take the bus. Ride a bike. Have your friend drive you.


Pisses me off too. I have been hit like 3 times and 2 of them had no insurance. Thankfully my insurance covered my damages. :|
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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The holier than thou self has had to pay THOUSANDs for accidents caused by other people who did not have insurance. This is in premium for "uninsured motorists" and for three acidents caused by uninsured motorists, two of which my car was parked.



Well then - you must have a VERY high deductible then, huh?
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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>Should the fine be so large that a person who is already in a financial
>crisis has to make the choice between daily survival or car insurance?

Sure, why not? Your choice is them to obey the law or be able to afford rent.

>What if the person lives to far to bike and there are no busses should
>the person take the risk of said ticket so he/she can support their family?

No, he shouldn't! He should get a job closer to where he lives or live closer to where he works. (Or, better yet, obey the law in the first place.)

Okay, so the person who is having a short term financial problem for a few months for whatever the reason, should now quit a job with medical and long term benefits to take a minimum wage job cause it is closer to their house? Losing more than half their income and they now need state add to make it month to month? :S

>People who only see it in black and white have never been put in a
>situation where they have no food, no electricity, etc.

Many people also see the car thing in black and white - either I have a car or I can't work. Yet people survived just fine back before 1950, when most people did not have cars.

You can not compare 1950 to 2010..:S

That is like comparing you to Amazon complete opposites. :P

TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1
I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH
You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly

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Anyone who does not have insurance, for WHATEVER REASON, and drives - has NO EXCUSE in my book. I am sorry... Just because you are broke, you don't have the right to pass your financial liability on to others by driving... Park the car and walk. Take the bus. Ride a bike. Have your friend drive you.



It seems it would have been cheaper for you to donate the insurance to them. Why didn't you do that? It seems the right thing to do. In fact, why don't you go on and start a comittee for the paying of insurance for uninsured drivers.

In fact, I think the government should provide us with auto insurance.

They can ram that down our throats too.

You should just pay more taxes to supplement that for our valued leaders.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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Well then - you must have a VERY high deductible then, huh?



Actually, my deductible is irrelevant as in my post I said I have paid thousands for Uninsured Motorists premium and deductibles. I don't know if it is a Colorado thing, or just my insurance company, but the Uninsured Motorists is a line item on the bill and it is always a large item.

If I would have lowered my deductible, my UI motorists premium would have gone up. If I would have increased my deductible, my premium would go down. So my deductible is irrelevant.

Actually, the fact I have a higher deductible has decreased my total out of pocket for these accidents caused by uninsured motorists. Insurance companies know that customers with high deductibles are less likely to submit trivial claims and less likely to commit insurance fraud, so they reward high deductible customers with disproportionately lower premiums...

But, as you know, if the other person had insurance my out of pocket would be zero as their liability coverage most likely would have a zero deductible and it would be their cost anyway... When the other person does not have insurance then I have to pay my insurance company a deductible and they have the exclusive right to collect (sue) the other party, thus I lose control. And, insurance companies use loss runs to determine costs of insurance, so even if it is not my fault, an uninsured motorist claim on my insurance hurts my premiums simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

But your comment that I must have a high deductible proves that you think it is my responsibility to pay for insurance for others who don't have the responsibility and ethics to buy their own insurance or not drive their car until they can. Our system of insurance is that each person needs insurance to legally drive a car, and I fully support any legal actions against people who are deadbeats and drive without paying the amount they legally should pay.

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It seems it would have been cheaper for you to donate the insurance to them. Why didn't you do that? It seems the right thing to do. In fact, why don't you go on and start a comittee for the paying of insurance for uninsured drivers.



Now you are just getting silly. (P.S. I already do pay the Uninsured Motorist tax. Not only do I have to pay for their negligence when they hit me, I pay a large sales tax surcharge for public transportation so the fares for the buses can be low. It is another sales tax in our city. Thus, taking the bus is cheaper than owning a car thanks to my contribution. No excuse for driving illegally!)

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It seems it would have been cheaper for you to donate the insurance to them. Why didn't you do that? It seems the right thing to do. In fact, why don't you go on and start a comittee for the paying of insurance for uninsured drivers.



Now you are just getting silly. (P.S. I already do pay the Uninsured Motorist tax. Not only do I have to pay for their negligence when they hit me, I pay a large sales tax surcharge for public transportation so the fares for the buses can be low. It is another sales tax in our city. Thus, taking the bus is cheaper than owning a car thanks to my contribution. No excuse for driving illegally!)



Public transportation does not exist everywhere.

Yes, I was making a correlation to how healthcare insurance and auto insurance are being treated differently.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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In America, is it against the law to drive whilst not insured?



It is not a federal crime, no.



Oh, thanks - cus it is in the U.K



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In America, is it against the law to drive whilst not insured?



As Turtle said, it's not a federal crime. But each of our 50 states has its own set of state laws, and motor vehicle laws exist mainly at the state level. It is unlawful (civilly; it's usually not a criminal offense) in the vast majority of US states to operate a motor vehicle unless either the vehicle or you have motor vehicle liability insurance.

In some US states, it's unlawful to own any actively-registered motor vehicle that is uninsured, even if it's "off the road", i.e., parked in your back yard with the wheels up on cinder blocks. In those states, the only way to legally own a vehicle that is uninsured, even if it's out of commission and not driveable, is to deactivate its registration. (And, of course, you have to keep it off the road during that time.)

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wow ... different laws in different states - what a wierd country:P - let's make life for our countrymen as difficult as possible[:/]

We don't need to insure our vehicles if they are off-road ... that's right daft, that is:S


(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

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By the way . . . when was the last time your holier than thou self was down and out and in financial distress where it was either pay rent or insurance? When was the last time you had to actually MAKE a decision like that?



When I was an intern in California, I had purchased a new car in Nevada from my drive from Oregon to Cali. I had trouble getting the registration transferred from one state to the next. For two weeks, my car was not registered. I left the car parked in my garage, and walked to work for two weeks, including at 3 am when I was on call when I rode my bike to the behavioral medical center, 5 miles away. If I can do it, he can do it.
He was irresponsible then for not having insurance and is irresponsible now for his continued reckless speeding habits. He is not someone that I would want on the road. He needs to suck it up and follow the law or pay the fine.

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By the way . . . when was the last time your holier than thou self was down and out and in financial distress where it was either pay rent or insurance? When was the last time you had to actually MAKE a decision like that?



When I was an intern in California, I had purchased a new car in Nevada from my drive from Oregon to Cali. I had trouble getting the registration transferred from one state to the next. For two weeks, my car was not registered. I left the car parked in my garage, and walked to work for two weeks, including at 3 am when I was on call when I rode my bike to the behavioral medical center, 5 miles away. If I can do it, he can do it.
He was irresponsible then for not having insurance and is irresponsible now for his continued reckless speeding habits. He is not someone that I would want on the road. He needs to suck it up and follow the law or pay the fine.



Are we talking about the same guy? I don't think he is going to be getting any tickets in Iraq,

Most of my jobs when I lived in Dallas were 50 to 75 miles away. What would you have me do?

For instance . . . because this was 6 years ago . . . we'll place it then.

Hypothetically:
My child comes down with an illness . . . lets not go for an easy one, lets say, lukemia . . .

The costs involved have me working 2 jobs and splitting the off time in the hospital and the frequent visits to the oncologist and treatment center.

The maximum of my insurance has been reached, some months ago, and I now have the wonderful opportunity to either lose my vehicle for non payment, or not pay the insurance for two months while the insurance annual limit rolls over again.

What would you do?
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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Hypothetically:
My child comes down with an illness . . . lets not go for an easy one, lets say, lukemia . . .

The costs involved have me working 2 jobs and splitting the off time in the hospital and the frequent visits to the oncologist and treatment center.

The maximum of my insurance has been reached, some months ago, and I now have the wonderful opportunity to either lose my vehicle for non payment, or not pay the insurance for two months while the insurance annual limit rolls over again.

What would you do?



What would you do if you lived in a state that suspends the registration if your insurance lapses?

You get a letter saying that you need to renew the insurance or your vehicle is no longer legal to drive.

Would you:

A: park it?

B; find some way to pay it?

C: drive it without insurance or proper registration?
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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>Most of my jobs when I lived in Dallas were 50 to 75 miles away. What
>would you have me do?

Move. Get a different job. Get a ride. Take the train/bus. Telecommute.

>The maximum of my insurance has been reached, some months ago,
>and I now have the wonderful opportunity to either lose my vehicle for
>non payment, or not pay the insurance for two months while the
>insurance annual limit rolls over again.

>What would you do?

See above. Put the child above the desire for a car.

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wow ... different laws in different states - what a wierd country:P - let's make life for our countrymen as difficult as possible[:/]

We don't need to insure our vehicles if they are off-road ... that's right daft, that is:S



Not really, How often do you drive outside the UK.... hell outside of England let alone into Scotland or Northern Ireland.

We have 10 states that are larger than the whole UK... and 28 that are larger than merry ole England;)

Now out here in the west I dont think its QUITE as fucked up with all the rules and regs that you find in the east with every little municipality having a tag or sticker you need to purchase as well as your state plate.

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How often do you drive outside the UK..



Personally, a lot . we drive to the Alps for our ski and summer holidays and then fly drive to Spain a couple of times a year too... But I sort of see what you mean, except that it seems strange to us because all of your States are in the same country.. we can't get our simple heads around that.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

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>Most of my jobs when I lived in Dallas were 50 to 75 miles away. What
>would you have me do?

Move. Get a different job. Get a ride. Take the train/bus. Telecommute.

>The maximum of my insurance has been reached, some months ago,
>and I now have the wonderful opportunity to either lose my vehicle for
>non payment, or not pay the insurance for two months while the
>insurance annual limit rolls over again.

>What would you do?

See above. Put the child above the desire for a car.



I'm not saying that it was right, legal or a good idea... All I am saying is, I understand WHY and have been in the situation where I had to choose.

My job was about 10 miles away from me, which I could walk, bike or take the bus, however, it then moved to the other side of town (for you Houston folk, it was at 59 @ Kirby, moved to 45 @ North BW 8)

Sometimes you have to do what you have to do. I left that job and joined the army. I've been pulled over 2 times in the last 6 years, only one of which I got a ticket for (failure to obey traffic sign, no left turns). I carry full coverage on my truck now, even when I'm not in the country (which is most of the time) because I can.

I'm not a bad guy, I was stuck between a rock and a hard place, did what I had to do and moved on.
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
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How often do you drive outside the UK..



Personally, a lot . we drive to the Alps for our ski and summer holidays and then fly drive to Spain a couple of times a year too... But I sort of see what you mean, except that it seems strange to us because all of your States are in the same country.. we can't get our simple heads around that.


AS you drive from the UK to the continent... I am sure the traffic laws and the registration requirements do change when you get to France, Spain and Switzerland.

At least here.. the language stays the same... well sorta... if you drive from Washington down to the Bible Belt it can get interestin( I can translate purty well):):)

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Although I can see your point, one could also argue that driving is not a *right*. No insurance = no driving. It really *is* that simple.



It's not a right, but in some places in the US, not driving is not really an option either if they want to keep their job. [:/]

Then again I suppose if they just went on food stamps and welfare, they wouldn't have to drive.

Shitty choice either way. Hope I never have to make them. :(



Although I appreciate that driving in the US is *important*, I maintain that in the vast majority of cases, there is no excuse for driving without insurance. As someone already pointed out: if you can't afford insurance, you can't afford to drive. I simply do not accept that you need to drive and you can't afford insurance. I think that 99% of the time this is simply not true. People have options, is all I'm sayin'. When you choose to drive without insurance, you are saying that you are prepared to make someone else suffer severe financial distress and possibly forgo life-saving treatments because of your financial distress. Forgive me if I think this is wrong.
"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

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Although I can see your point, one could also argue that driving is not a *right*. No insurance = no driving. It really *is* that simple.



It's not a right, but in some places in the US, not driving is not really an option either if they want to keep their job. [:/]

Then again I suppose if they just went on food stamps and welfare, they wouldn't have to drive.

Shitty choice either way. Hope I never have to make them. :(



Although I appreciate that driving in the US is *important*, I maintain that in the vast majority of cases, there is no excuse for driving without insurance. As someone already pointed out: if you can't afford insurance, you can't afford to drive. I simply do not accept that you need to drive and you can't afford insurance. I think that 99% of the time this is simply not true. People have options, is all I'm sayin'. When you choose to drive without insurance, you are saying that you are prepared to make someone else suffer severe financial distress and possibly forgo life-saving treatments because of your financial distress. Forgive me if I think this is wrong.


Forgo life-saving treatments? No. Even in the US, you'll still get treated, it's the $$$ issue of who and how they get paid,

Additionally the person without insurance is taking a large risk as well. Even if they have nothing at the time, should they start to turn things around, win the lottery, or get an inheritance, the insurance company can claim right to a portion of their future income.
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

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Although I can see your point, one could also argue that driving is not a *right*. No insurance = no driving. It really *is* that simple.



It's not a right, but in some places in the US, not driving is not really an option either if they want to keep their job. [:/]

Then again I suppose if they just went on food stamps and welfare, they wouldn't have to drive.

Shitty choice either way. Hope I never have to make them. :(



Although I appreciate that driving in the US is *important*, I maintain that in the vast majority of cases, there is no excuse for driving without insurance. As someone already pointed out: if you can't afford insurance, you can't afford to drive. I simply do not accept that you need to drive and you can't afford insurance. I think that 99% of the time this is simply not true. People have options, is all I'm sayin'. When you choose to drive without insurance, you are saying that you are prepared to make someone else suffer severe financial distress and possibly forgo life-saving treatments because of your financial distress. Forgive me if I think this is wrong.


Forgo life-saving treatments? No. Even in the US, you'll still get treated, it's the $$$ issue of who and how they get paid,

Additionally the person without insurance is taking a large risk as well. Even if they have nothing at the time, should they start to turn things around, win the lottery, or get an inheritance, the insurance company can claim right to a portion of their future income.



Really?? So hospitals in the US never turn away patients for expensive treatments when they can't afford them? Never??

Maybe I'm wrong, but what I'm getting at is that when there is an accident where the uninsured driver is at fault they are punishing the victim twice and really fucking them over. I think it's a choice the person made at someone else's expense, and I think it's unacceptable.
"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

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Although I can see your point, one could also argue that driving is not a *right*. No insurance = no driving. It really *is* that simple.



It's not a right, but in some places in the US, not driving is not really an option either if they want to keep their job. [:/]

Then again I suppose if they just went on food stamps and welfare, they wouldn't have to drive.

Shitty choice either way. Hope I never have to make them. :(



Although I appreciate that driving in the US is *important*, I maintain that in the vast majority of cases, there is no excuse for driving without insurance. As someone already pointed out: if you can't afford insurance, you can't afford to drive. I simply do not accept that you need to drive and you can't afford insurance. I think that 99% of the time this is simply not true. People have options, is all I'm sayin'. When you choose to drive without insurance, you are saying that you are prepared to make someone else suffer severe financial distress and possibly forgo life-saving treatments because of your financial distress. Forgive me if I think this is wrong.


Forgo life-saving treatments? No. Even in the US, you'll still get treated, it's the $$$ issue of who and how they get paid,

Additionally the person without insurance is taking a large risk as well. Even if they have nothing at the time, should they start to turn things around, win the lottery, or get an inheritance, the insurance company can claim right to a portion of their future income.



Really?? So hospitals in the US never turn away patients for expensive treatments when they can't afford them? Never??

Maybe I'm wrong, but what I'm getting at is that when there is an accident where the uninsured driver is at fault they are punishing the victim twice and really fucking them over. I think it's a choice the person made at someone else's expense, and I think it's unacceptable.


It is the same with health care. Those of us with it are paying for the non insured. That is another beef of mine.

Car insurance is state regulated so what might vary from state to state is the "no fault law" and in Florida it doesn't matter who is at fault you have to carry it to cover those who do not have insurance. It really isn't much extra on your insurance per month. Dmv here will not issue you a license with out showing proof of insurance and you can not register your car each yr if you do not have insurance.

So nataly, say we use me in a hypothetical situation here.

i work 28 miles from my house at a job i have been at for over two yrs with great benefits hours, etc. i am a single parent who normally does well has enough to put a little money away each month. All of a sudden i get injured and have to take a leave of absence from work for 2-3 months. I have short term disability which only pays me 60% of my monthly income. Now I not only have my medical bills(copays, co-insurance )that have cost just about everything in my savings. I have gotten 1month behind on all my monthly bills. I now am struggling just to have gas to go back to work to a job that in a month or two will help me get caught back up. I have no choice but to drive my car with no insurance for that time so i have some income to survive and catch back up.
Another post say get a job closer to my house but that isn't an option since there are none in my line of work that close. Do I now quit a job and become dependent on the state to pay for me to survive or drive with no insurance for 1 maybe 2 months when i get caught back up so i can afford the insurance again?

What I and Robert were pointing out is, yes it is wrong to drive without the correct coverage but in some instances we understand why people do it.
TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1
I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH
You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly

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