Surprising things to put on a CV / resume...

[nigel99 143]

Quote

Quote

besides the picture and the number of kids the rest os standard on a cv here in ireland

i dont really see a problem with any of it, id never include a picture and as a guy i doubt they care how many kids i have as im not gonna be able to take paternity leave anyway

if i was a business owner i would wanta s much info as possible

I don't know if Ireland has the same employment laws as the UK, but as of 2005 or 2006 it's illegal in the UK to discriminate on the basis of age (in addition to race, gender, religion, sexuality). So employers are not allowed to say or hint that they want someone young - they are not allowed to ask dob either. Although you are free to put it on your CV if you want. And anyway we all know people are discriminated against on all counts regardless of all these laws...

I suppose in a way it may be no more or less discriminatory in France, except that they are perhaps more upfront about it.

It is funny people always assume employers want "young". For men that might be the case but as a UK business owner where most of my friends/acquaintances also own business "young" women are not very welcome. It really sucks when you have to keep a job open for 6 months paying for someone on maternity leave and paying temporary staff only to have the person leave at the end of it. Our neighbours wife did this TWICE and a friends wife did as well. It may be the law but it sinks small businesses.

I think the information is relevant to an employer. For example I would happily employ an older women who is married and has kids to do admin work as I know that work won't impact their lifestyle and they tend (as a generalisation) to be more reliable and you can trust their judgement. Conversely high intensity design work is better suited to a young single person who doesn't have to work 9-5 and pick the kids up from school as the hours can be long and disruptive.

Ultimately different jobs fit different people and I think employers have a right to make that judgement call.

I don't see the point of the photo though unless you are applying for a job as a hooker or model.That said as a consultant I have a CV that is routinely given out to clients and it does have a photo on it - but the rational is that it helps give people a "face" as we don't always meet in person. I "suppose" you could also argue that it shows presentation - I wouldn't want some tattoo and piercing riddled person with bright green hair manning my reception desk for example.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Nataly 38]

Quote

It is funny people always assume employers want "young". For men that might be the case but as a UK business owner where most of my friends/acquaintances also own business "young" women are not very welcome. It really sucks when you have to keep a job open for 6 months paying for someone on maternity leave and paying temporary staff only to have the person leave at the end of it. Our neighbours wife did this TWICE and a friends wife did as well. It may be the law but it sinks small businesses.

By young, I meant less than 50 - in the business world, the optimal age (cerainly in the UK) seems to be in the 30s... And yes, women of "birthing age" get discriminated against, BIGTIME and it is not fair. We earn less money, get slighted for promotions/partnership, and hardly ever reach the senior levels even if we never have children! What stinks for a minority of small businesses is much worse for 50% of the population. I'm not going to get started on this, because it's a bigass can of worms...

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

I was trying to figure out what a CV Joint, had to do with a resume!

At my age I was thinking Cardio Vascular.

I woke up with a pulse this morning so I'm happy today.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

I don't see the point of the photo though unless you are applying for a job as a hooker or model.

I was once part of an interviewing team for our company but I walked away from that very, very quickly when the ladies in the group didn't want to hire a very qualified older gentleman because he wore an ill-fitting hair piece.
True story.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[BillyVance 34]

Quote

Quote

I don't see the point of the photo though unless you are applying for a job as a hooker or model.

I was once part of an interviewing team for our company but I walked away from that very, very quickly when the ladies in the group didn't want to hire a very qualified older gentleman because he wore an ill-fitting hair piece.
True story.

A friend of mine who I dated very briefly 15 years ago or so who has now been married for 12 years, and myself for 10 years, went to a job interview for a position that as it turned out, she was more qualified for than the other girl was. She had the bachelors and masters degree. The other girl didn't, but she got the job anyway because she was slender and flirty (always had been a flirt). That girl has done a pretty good job at the position thus far if you ignore the ethical violations she's committed (fucking around with married coworkers and colleagues).

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[93zx11 0]

I had to fill out a CV for a job a couple weeks ago. It was retarded. They even asked the stupid essay questions.

My favorite was "what would you do if you won a million dollars?"

I put "Two chicks at the same time, man."

My now boss is a office space fan, and hired me on the spot.

[Nataly 38]

When I was in recruitment, I was told to watch out for the "halos and horns effect" ("the tendency to rate a person high on all performance factors or low on all of them because of a global impression one has.")... Basically, human nature is such that in an interview setting you actually tend to decide on the person within about 10 seconds of them stepping into the room... That's why the way you carry yourself makes a big difference in that first impression - often interviewers will favour the most charismatic candidate over the most qualified one. But "most qualified" does not mean "best person for the job"...

There is a good link on common rating errors here: http://www.creighton.edu/fileadmin/user/AdminFinance/HumanResources/docs/Compensation_Performance_Mgmt/Errors_in_Performance_Evaluations.pdf That article is more about performance on the job, but some of it applies to interviewing biases as well...

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[nigel99 143]

Quote

When I was in recruitment, I was told to watch out for the "halos and horns effect" ("the tendency to rate a person high on all performance factors or low on all of them because of a global impression one has.")... Basically, human nature is such that in an interview setting you actually tend to decide on the person within about 10 seconds of them stepping into the room... That's why the way you carry yourself makes a big difference in that first impression - often interviewers will favour the most charismatic candidate over the most qualified one. But "most qualified" does not mean "best person for the job"...

There is a good link on common rating errors here: http://www.creighton.edu/fileadmin/user/AdminFinance/HumanResources/docs/Compensation_Performance_Mgmt/Errors_in_Performance_Evaluations.pdf That article is more about performance on the job, but some of it applies to interviewing biases as well...

I worked for someone whose policy on recruitment was simple. He only hired contractors as the first step. Spent time filtering through the CV's and spent less than 5 minutes interviewing you (my interview was a minute or two as the phone rang and he kicked me out as it was an important call). He then basically sacked you if you were incompetent, if you were mediocre you lasted your contract duration (3 months normally) and if you fit/he liked you he then offered top dollar and converted you to permanent staff. While expensive it is still the most successful method of building an engineering team I have ever come across.

However the strangest interview I have ever been in was 10-12 years ago. I was lead engineer and the project was in deep trouble. The company wouldn't employ more people but allowed me to get outside help from a leading consultancy. During the "assistance" period I put my CV on the market and it ended up on the consultants desk that I was dealing with as they were recruiting. At the interview Mike walked me around to introduce me and telling everyone that I would be working there and starting soon. They hadn't even formally offered me the job yet or been through security vetting. Without doubt the best job I have ever held. I even survived being the person who brought down the entire IT system for a week with the "I love you virus" (amazing who opened those emails though). It is a pity that the pay sucked.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Nataly 38]

Quote

I worked for someone whose policy on recruitment was simple. He only hired contractors as the first step. Spent time filtering through the CV's and spent less than 5 minutes interviewing you (my interview was a minute or two as the phone rang and he kicked me out as it was an important call). He then basically sacked you if you were incompetent, if you were mediocre you lasted your contract duration (3 months normally) and if you fit/he liked you he then offered top dollar and converted you to permanent staff. While expensive it is still the most successful method of building an engineering team I have ever come across.

I really like the idea of hiring someone on a trial basis... I have believed for a long time that the interview process is not necessarily the only or the most effective way to hire the right person - it's just the easiest. I have had good interview experiences and bad ones... I once got offered a job where the interview had gone really well, but I had to turn it down - I knew I couldn't deliver at the right level at that time. So it's possible to have excellent interviewing skills and not have the competencies for the job itself... Unfortunately, it follows that the opposite is also true...

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[DARK 0]

Quote

I don't know if Ireland has the same employment laws as the UK, but as of 2005 or 2006 it's illegal in the UK to discriminate on the basis of age (in addition to race, gender, religion, sexuality). So employers are not allowed to say or hint that they want someone young - they are not allowed to ask dob either.

we probably have the same laws

Quote

Although you are free to put it on your CV if you want. And anyway we all know people are discriminated against on all counts regardless of all these laws...

in some cases rightly so imo

Quote

And yes, women of "birthing age" get discriminated against, BIGTIME and it is not fair.

it certainly isnt fair for the individual women who ahve no intention of screwing a company over by getting pregnant right after or during their probation but it is totally reasonable for a small to medium sized business to not hire someone they think might do this as it is simply far too much of a financial burden for them

imo you should have to be employed by the company for 18 -24 months before you should be entitled to maternity leave and i think men should be able to avail of some paternity after this time aswell

its the ridicolous laws that force a company to discriminate in this way imo

[Andy9o8 0]

What amuses me are people who are "careful" about what they list about themselves on resumes and job applications, but freely post all sorts of things about themselves - linked to their full names! - on various websites for all the world to see. It's not just the mouth-breathing stalkers who search (and find) that stuff on the net; employers do it, too.

[d_squared431 0]

Quote

Quote

I worked for someone whose policy on recruitment was simple. He only hired contractors as the first step. Spent time filtering through the CV's and spent less than 5 minutes interviewing you (my interview was a minute or two as the phone rang and he kicked me out as it was an important call). He then basically sacked you if you were incompetent, if you were mediocre you lasted your contract duration (3 months normally) and if you fit/he liked you he then offered top dollar and converted you to permanent staff. While expensive it is still the most successful method of building an engineering team I have ever come across.

I really like the idea of hiring someone on a trial basis... I have believed for a long time that the interview process is not necessarily the only or the most effective way to hire the right person - it's just the easiest. I have had good interview experiences and bad ones... I once got offered a job where the interview had gone really well, but I had to turn it down - I knew I couldn't deliver at the right level at that time. So it's possible to have excellent interviewing skills and not have the competencies for the job itself... Unfortunately, it follows that the opposite is also true...

What gets you the interview is your CV/Resume. Then you must dress for your future job(the job you see yourself having in 10yrs) and not the present interview.

I just went thru- a vigorous hiring process for a much higher paying job. I was told my CV/Resume was impeccable. My face to face interview was over 2 hours, then I had another 15 minute informative follow up and to pick up a packet of paperwork discuss the process for drug screen, then a skills assessment test(which was about an 1.5hrs) followed by a 2or3step back ground check(finger printed etc). On Monday I was called and offered the job. Yesterday I gave my notice to my mgr and start the new place on the 29th.

I now have to study my ass off and take a few tests to have my Florida State Certification/licenses which I have been putting off. I am a lazy ass but more money seems to have lit a fire under my lazy ass..

TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1
I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH
You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly

[Nataly 38]

Quote

it certainly isnt fair for the individual women who ahve no intention of screwing a company over by getting pregnant right after or during their probation but it is totally reasonable for a small to medium sized business to not hire someone they think might do this as it is simply far too much of a financial burden for them

imo you should have to be employed by the company for 18 -24 months before you should be entitled to maternity leave and i think men should be able to avail of some paternity after this time aswell

its the ridicolous laws that force a company to discriminate in this way imo

I don't want to bring up politics in here, but honestly the burden felt by small companies could be dealt with by having better laws / support. This way it wouldn't be all young women who are discriminated against and all small businesses who are exposed to financial risks. Unfortunately, it's a vicious cycle IMO... Give people limited options / resources and low-level jobs / unfair salaries, and they will be forced to screw the system, which will encourage people to discriminate against them, which will encourage screwing with the system, et cetera, et cetera.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[shah269 0]

Quote

I didn't include the following:
-a picture of myself = there is no sexual harassment in Europe, god I love those people!

-my date of birth = want to know how long you may work for them.

-my marital status = you may get married and move to another part of the country or just quit! Lots of stay at home moms or partially employed moms in Europe.

-how many (if any) kids I have = they have to give you X # of months off for the rug rats. Bad investment on their part. If you have them ok if not note the marital status and the possibility of having rug rats.

-my hobbies = could be an insurance thing, but most likely they want to see if you fit into their family.


Oh well.. When in Rome..get naked and send photos!

If you don't like it come to the US. They can't ask you any of that stuff unless you tell them.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[d_squared431 0]

Quote

Quote

I didn't include the following:
-a picture of myself = there is no sexual harassment in Europe, god I love those people!

-my date of birth = want to know how long you may work for them.

-my marital status = you may get married and move to another part of the country or just quit! Lots of stay at home moms or partially employed moms in Europe.

-how many (if any) kids I have = they have to give you X # of months off for the rug rats. Bad investment on their part. If you have them ok if not note the marital status and the possibility of having rug rats.

-my hobbies = could be an insurance thing, but most likely they want to see if you fit into their family.


Oh well.. When in Rome..get naked and send photos!

If you don't like it come to the US. They can't ask you any of that stuff unless you tell them.

No, but a person who is 22 doesn't have the experience or 10 yrs of work history in the filed like they are applying for like a 32, or 42yr old does . Most employers can tell approx age of the candidate/applicant with the resume without having a dob on it.

TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1
I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH
You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly

[DARK 0]

Quote

Quote

it certainly isnt fair for the individual women who ahve no intention of screwing a company over by getting pregnant right after or during their probation but it is totally reasonable for a small to medium sized business to not hire someone they think might do this as it is simply far too much of a financial burden for them

imo you should have to be employed by the company for 18 -24 months before you should be entitled to maternity leave and i think men should be able to avail of some paternity after this time aswell

its the ridicolous laws that force a company to discriminate in this way imo

I don't want to bring up politics in here, but honestly the burden felt by small companies could be dealt with by having better laws / support. This way it wouldn't be all young women who are discriminated against and all small businesses who are exposed to financial risks. Unfortunately, it's a vicious cycle IMO... Give people limited options / resources and low-level jobs / unfair salaries, and they will be forced to screw the system, which will encourage people to discriminate against them, which will encourage screwing with the system, et cetera, et cetera.

yep i agree, the current laws worked for what they were intended to do at the time but need to be adjusted for the current climate


TOO MUCH POLITICS IN THE BONFIRE ARRRGGGH

i think you should put pictures of your boobies on all applications everywhere

just saying

[MikeJD 0]

Quote

What amuses me are people who are "careful" about what they list about themselves on resumes and job applications, but freely post all sorts of things about themselves.

Exactly. Surely one of the first things any prospective employer will do these days is look for you on the web.

Interestingly, I read that having no online presence can count against you. But presumably not as badly as, say, a Facebook page showing you passed out in a strip club!

[Nataly 38]

Quote

Interestingly, I read that having no online presence can count against you. But presumably not as badly as, say, a Facebook page showing you passed out in a strip club!

I'm sure that depends on the type of job you are applying for... If you want to work in PR, for instance, I would think that might be the case - if you're aiming for a role with MI5, having no presence at all is probably a good thing!!

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[JohanW 0]

Or even just with the police force.

Then again, when there's photos of you passed out in a strip joint, they likely won't keep digging for the photos of what you were doing there before you passed out.

Johan.
I am. I think.

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

In the UK, it's called a CV; in the States and Canada, I believe the Anglos call it a resume. ie: what you use to apply for a job.

So what do the Non Anglos in the USA and Canada call it then? [eye roll]

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[P-dro 0]

Quote

I didn't include the following:
-a picture of myself
-my date of birth
-my marital status
-how many (if any) kids I have
-my hobbies

Yeah, I guess it must be strange coming from the US.
But all of these items are expected on a CV, except maybe the photo which is negociable (I never had one on my cv). But since you are good looking it may be a plus even if it's for bad reasons...

The rest is only meant explain a little bit who you are as persons and how you may fit in the company.

We have a weird fetish with degree too. It's not uncommon to hear that a company has prefered a person with a more prestigious degree to a person with real experience and achievement.

Where are you in France? Paris?

[warpedskydiver 0]

Quote

Quote

In the UK, it's called a CV; in the States and Canada, I believe the Anglos call it a resume. ie: what you use to apply for a job.

So what do the Non Anglos in the USA and Canada call it then? [eye roll]

Scott, you crack me up.

Rep from 'da hood, of course!

Word yo!

Geez, us knuckle draggers!

Tell everyone happy Veterans day from me, that goes for Nataly as well.

[DARK 0]

Quote

We have a weird fetish with degree too. It's not uncommon to hear that a company has prefered a person with a more prestigious degree to a person with real experience and achievement.

thats a world wide thing and very prevalant in america and there are some good reasons for it believe it or not