Students paying for reserve repack

[huka551 0]

If an AFF student has to cutaway would they still be expected to pay for the repack? As a student most everything is included in the cost: gear rental, pack jobs, jumps, instructers, etc. Of course the cost doesn't seem to take in the equation the possibility of a chop

Muff Brother 3723

[kelel01 1]

This has been a topic of debate. Personally, I think the repack should be accounted for in the cost of the rental.

Lost gear (handles, main, etc.) due to a cutaway, though, might be a different issue.

[huka551 0]

I wouldn't object to paying the extra for the repack. As a student I would be grateful to get back to the ground and would pay for damn near anything!

Muff Brother 3723

[pilotdave 0]

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Lost gear (handles, main, etc.) due to a cutaway, though, might be a different issue.

I think the DZ just has to take the loss when it's a student. In my opinion, you never want a student to NOT cut away or worry about keeping the handles just to save money.

No idea what the policy actually was where I did AFF, but I'm assuming they woulda charged for everything including the repack.

I did once see a student melt a canopy on power lines (and start a brush fire, and knocked out power to the DZ). The DZO let him keep the crispy canopy as a souvenir, and didn't charge him a penny.

Dave

[masterrig 1]

I agree. We never know, when a malfunction might occur. That, should be realized by the DZO. Students are told to keep the handles or else, it's $$$ + a case o' beer!


Chuck

[kelel01 1]

Well, ideally, rental should cover ALL of it, but I think most of the time it doesn't. But to me, if the student gets charged for the repack, that's just shitty.

[huka551 0]

That is very cool of the DZO, It surprises me that knocking out the DZ power, starting a fire and destroying a canopy, would not cause a DZO to flip the F*ck out! People flip out if you spend mor then 5 seconds in the door!

Muff Brother 3723

[katzurki 0]

Well, I didn't pay for my repack :)
it may have been different if I had had somebody other than the chief rigger for an instructor.

[huka551 0]

how many jumps did you have at that time? Were you still doing AFF?

Muff Brother 3723

[divnswoop 0]

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Students are told to keep the handles or else, it's $$$ + a case o' beer!

You teach your students to hang on to the handles or else? The last thing I want my students to worry about as they go through their emergency procedures for the first time in real life is holding on to the handles.

[skycat 0]

At the DZ I learned at if you were a student you didn't have to pay for the pack job, but if you lost the handles you had to pay for them. The only student cutaway I saw was an extremely hard opening where there were broken lines and torn main canopy. Student didn't have to pay for anything since he kept his handles.

Fly it like you stole it!

[huka551 0]

The last thing on my mind if I should have to cutaway would be hanging on to the handles. I would just be grateful that my ass is still alive! My thought my change after I've had to pay for handles I've thrown away, a few times

Muff Brother 3723

[masterrig 1]

The $$$ + beer is strictly tongue in cheek. It's just a 'joke', about the handles, etc. They are told (in all seriousness) to follow proper procedures to save their lives. We'll worry about the handles! It appears, I was mis-leading.

Chuck

[BIGUN 1,049]

If they are a student and did not pack the main, the DZ should pay (me, persoanlly, if they chunk the handles as a student and saved their life, I'll eat that to).

If they are on student status, but have been signed off on packing and packed their own chute, they pay.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Foggy 0]

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At the DZ I learned at if you were a student you didn't have to pay for the pack job, but if you lost the handles you had to pay for them.

I teach students to throw away each handle in turn. This helps the stripping of the cutaway cables before a reserve pull. Handles can be replaced. They cannot.

Foggy
D21109

[AggieDave 6]

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his helps the stripping of the cutaway cables before a reserve pull.

If the cutaway cables are cut to the correct length and the student is taught to pull the handles to arm's length, does it really matter? It'll have cutaway by then and you can leave a step out of a possibly complicated situation for a student.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[katzurki 0]

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how many jumps did you have at that time? Were you still doing AFF?

First jump post AFF, still on ripcord, spring-loaded student gear (my next jump was to be a BOC transition jump). Lost the ripcord, too.

[Tink1717 2]

And thus, the birth of another skdiver named "Sparky".

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Student jump prices include gear rental. If they drop the handles, who cares?
The only responsibility for gear we put on the student is for altimeters. If you break it in the plane or on the jump, oh well. If you break it while on the ground (for instance you put it down on the counter and someone else knocks it on the floor) you bought it.

[AggieDave 6]

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Student jump prices include gear rental. If they drop the handles, who cares?

That wasn't the point I was making. I don't want to drop my handles, but I would rather see a student have a clean and correct proceedure cutaway dropping both the handles.

I was talking more along the lines of teaching "extra steps" to a student for a cutaway sequence.

What are your thoughts along those lines?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[divnswoop 0]

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If the cutaway cables are cut to the correct length and the student is taught to pull the handles to arm's length, does it really matter?

There are times with little girls and the location of their handles where at "full arms extention" they are just barely pulling 6 inches out. I think the swipe is a good ideal to ensure a clean cut-away. We've had more incidents with incomplete cut-aways or improper sequence than we have jumpers running out of time during their emergency procedures. Pulling to full arm extention with a swipe ensures the clean cutaway.(this doesn't mean they take their eye off of the resevere during the swipe)

[AggieDave 6]

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There are times with little girls and the location of their handles where at "full arms extention" they are just barely pulling 6 inches out.

Good point, another question though...was the rig even remotely close to fitting the student correctly?

It just seems to me that if a rig fits a student correctly and leaves the handles in the "normal" position and the rig is setup properly then it wouldn't cause a problem.

Thank you for taking your time to reply, I'm learning a couple of things I hadn't thought of before.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[divnswoop 0]

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Good point, another question though...was the rig even remotely close to fitting the student correctly?
It just seems to me that if a rig fits a student correctly and leaves the handles in the "normal" position and the rig is setup properly then it wouldn't cause a problem.

That's is true... at the 1st dz I worked at we had a smaller jav for the little girls. It was built for 5'-5'6 frame and when we "eyed" up the rig you could tell that their arms would clear the housing for the 3 ring loop....but not by much. Teaching the "swipe" was just our policy at the dz. I do agree with properly fitting gear the swipe would be unnecessary...but unfortunately student gear is student gear. They are made to fit a variety of people and your not always going to have a rig to fit every person "perfectly".

[Cayce 0]

I had a cutaway on AFF-2 with a line-over resulting in a spinning main. I might work to fix it better now, but at the time I just chopped because I couldn't control or land with that main. I happened to keep both handles, only because I didn't clear and they were hanging from the housing when I landed. The DZO never mentioned anything about paying for the re-pack. I would have if he had, but at that point I was just so happy to be alive it never crossed my mind. I don't think students should have to be concerned with cost of re-pack. If they need to chop then their only concern should be their EP and surviving.

But I also agree, as stated above, that students that are signed off to pack their own should be responsible cut. I’ve done some crappy looking pack jobs that thankfully opened pretty well. But if I botched it on a packing mistake I wouldn’t expect the DZ to suck up a reserve repack.

[hookitt 0]

AFF student should pay for nothing. They are taught to throw the handles and the parachute is packed for them.

Is that not the case at most DZ's?

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto