going in with no handles pulled....

[dannydan 0]

at least pages 16 through 20 in the thread about OUR fellow Russian BROTHER going in with no handles pulled @Perris a few weeks back, which obviously means that no wings over head, much talk is stirring about a check in and check out system needs to be in place....

I want to be very clear about ME in a case like this... If no one see's me around the bonfire with bottle in hand or my bottle of the finest tequila IS still full the neXt morning, then you can start a search for me! CLUE... Start by looking in or around my VAN, or along the edges of a soybean field and proceed out from there! ;)

RIP BROTHER Ruskie and all the others before you! and those that unfortunately WILL be neXt.... BSBD

[npgraphicdesign 2]

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at least pages 16 through 20 in the thread about OUR fellow Russian BROTHER going in with no handles pulled @Perris a few weeks back, which obviously means that no wings over head, much talk is stirring about a check in and check out system needs to be in place....

I want to be very clear about ME in a case like this... If no one see's me around the bonfire with bottle in hand or my bottle of the finest tequila IS still full the neXt morning, then you can start a search for me! CLUE... Start by looking in or around my VAN, or along the edges of a soybean field and proceed out from there! ;)

RIP BROTHER Ruskie and all the others before you! and those that unfortunately WILL be neXt.... BSBD

RIP to a fellow Russky brother and skydiver. Refresh my memory...is that the guy they couldn't find for a few days? How long did it take to find him?

[vanair 0]

Don't have an solution to check in or not question. But we have to look after each other. About 8-10 yrs ago at the ranch in NY. 1st lift was long, last guy a visiting Russian couldn't quite make it back. Did a low hook under a very small canopy to face into what little wind we had. I was on hold waiting for I think the clouds to get higher to start my tandem day. I made a comment to a friend that he might not have been high enough to plane out. It was hard to tell behind the trees. I grabbed someones bicycle and told my friend if I come out of the trees and wave to call 911. So I rode out to the runway and then to the end of it. When I ran into Mcnastys field I could only see the canopy blowing in the breeze. I ran back and waved. I then ran to the motionless jumper, He wasn't breathing and I could find no pulse. As I took off his frap hat I said to him " Buddy I'll do my best". I started CPR. It seemed like forever but I'm sure it was just a few minutes till my friend John Bracken showed up. He took over chest compressions while I blew. At one point John pushed a little to hard and I was too close. He spurted and I got a mouthful of blood. Kept going. Don't know how long we were doing it. Now surrounded by jumpers. Guy Wright said "Van he's dead, I've seen it before, he's dead". I didn't want to believe it but I knew he was right. When I was blowing his chest wasn't rising it was just gurgling out someplace else. I was all of a sudden exhausted. I never realized how hard CPR is. I was crying and had to leave the scene. I went home and drank alot of vodka to get the taste out of my mouth. Other people could assist the authorites. Later that week I called the coroner requesting an aides and Hep C test on the body to see if I had anything to worry about. He said we don't do those tests and then chastised me for stopping CPR once it was started. I asked if it would have helped, he said no but that it's not up to me to decide. I said I don't have to be a Dr to realize it wasn't working. He was dead. They found a chunk of his shin bone 30' away. So I put my request in writing and CCed the chief medical examiner and the mayor. About two weeks later I got a reply that the tests were Neg. I wasn't sure if I believed him but I'm O.K.

[mutumbo 0]

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As I took off his frap hat I said to him " Buddy I'll do my best". I started CPR. It seemed like forever but I'm sure it was just a few minutes till my friend John Bracken showed up. He took over chest compressions while I blew. At one point John pushed a little to hard and I was too close. He spurted and I got a mouthful of blood. Kept going. [/reply

and thats why i wont ever do mouth to mouth. EVER.
and also why, places like DZ's need to have a BVM or at least a pocket mask on premisis.

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Don't know how long we were doing it. Now surrounded by jumpers. Guy Wright said "Van he's dead, I've seen it before, he's dead". I didn't want to believe it but I knew he was right. When I was blowing his chest wasn't rising it was just gurgling out someplace else. I was all of a sudden exhausted. I never realized how hard CPR is.

yeah CPR is a bitch eh?
i kinda agree with the medical examiner, YOU should have quit when you got tired but someone else should have continued, untill someone with more training gets there, let them deal with it. so although i agree with him i do think he was yelling at the wrong guy.


either way, you did the best you could and thats all you can do.

Thanatos340(on landing rounds)--
Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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YOU should have quit when you got tired but someone else should have continued,

After several doctors tired out, my buddy, a premed orderly at the time, got tapped to do compressions on a 10 year old boy who'd been hit by a car. When my buddy got tired, they told him to quit and then "pulled the sheet up". Took my roommate quite a while to get over the guilt of getting tired, of being the one to "kill the kid." I know, weird stuff happens when you're dealing with life and death.

[skyrider 0]

Back to the OP...many times I have purposely landed out at Perris , either at the Ghetto, or near my truck to leave, without checking back in...It is NOT the DZ's job to watch out for us after we leave the aircraft...they have enough on their plate! JMO

[popsjumper 2]

If I'm ever the one laying there, just kiss me good bye and forget the huffing and puffing.
I would never forgive you for bringing me back to life as a vegetable. There ARE fates worse than death.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[mutumbo 0]

yeah the first few times i ended up being last to do cpr it was kinda wierd. now it dosent really bother me.

but yeah working on kids in scenearios that sucks no matter how much experience you have.

Thanatos340(on landing rounds)--
Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet.

[skyrider 0]

I did CPR once at Perris, (My wife is an instructor) , It was a tandem student, and for soem reason he stopped breathing, and blacked out, One breath, and he came right back...(More to the story, but that is all that matters for this thread)

[mutumbo 0]

well depending on who it was one breath might bring me back from near death too!

Thanatos340(on landing rounds)--
Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Get Yer Mouth Off Me! I'll Start Breathin', Honest!

[mutumbo 0]

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Get Yer Mouth Off Me! I'll Start Breathin', Honest!

well i was thinking more along the lines of the part of the movie THE SANDLOT where squints jumps off the deep end so he can get wendy peffercorn to give him mouth to mouth


but ur way is funny too!!

Thanatos340(on landing rounds)--
Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet.

[drdive 0]

In general, CPR is WORTHLESS for trauma victims. Might work for cardio-pulmonary arrest related to - uh - non traumatic cardiopulmonary arrest - but not for trauma. If I was there, would say "yep - dead is dead" Believe me - been there, done that.

Doc

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YOU should have quit when you got tired but someone else should have continued,

After several doctors tired out, my buddy, a premed orderly at the time, got tapped to do compressions on a 10 year old boy who'd been hit by a car. When my buddy got tired, they told him to quit and then "pulled the sheet up". Took my roommate quite a while to get over the guilt of getting tired, of being the one to "kill the kid." I know, weird stuff happens when you're dealing with life and death.

"We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub"

"

[mutumbo 0]

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In general, CPR is WORTHLESS for trauma victims. Might work for cardio-pulmonary arrest related to - uh - non traumatic cardiopulmonary arrest - but not for trauma. If I was there, would say "yep - dead is dead" Believe me - been there, done that.

Doc

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Quote

YOU should have quit when you got tired but someone else should have continued,

After several doctors tired out, my buddy, a premed orderly at the time, got tapped to do compressions on a 10 year old boy who'd been hit by a car. When my buddy got tired, they told him to quit and then "pulled the sheet up". Took my roommate quite a while to get over the guilt of getting tired, of being the one to "kill the kid." I know, weird stuff happens when you're dealing with life and death.

while i will COMPLETELY agree with you that traumatic arrests are virtually never brought back successfully, im saying that the guy with most likely zero real medical training (beyond the red cross CPR card) is not really qualified to make that kind of call, unless theres an obvious injury not compatible to life. like one half of his brain is with him and the other half is 20 ft away.

but thats just my .02 on it.

Thanatos340(on landing rounds)--
Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet.

[skygirl1 1]

My best friend went in with no toggles unstowed which was a anurism in free fall. Then 2 years later another good friend of mine was on a staff load in texas and did not show up for 2 days. He was the plane organizer. they finally decided to look for him 2 days later and found him and discoverd he actually had crawled out of his harness. God bless his soul. I was in NYC when it happened, but let's jsut say I have never been back to that DZ. What happened to the old school way I learned. Count canopies, look for your brothers and sisters if you do not see them land right away....and always have each others back. Maybe dz's are just too commercialized these days. That is why I stick where I am at now. We actually teach our students how to spot even out of a turbines.
Blue skies to the brothers and sisters we have lost

" Mean people SUCK!"

[popsjumper 2]

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...Then 2 years later another good friend of mine was on a staff load in texas and did not show up for 2 days. He was the plane organizer. they finally decided to look for him 2 days later and found him and discoverd he actually had crawled out of his harness. God bless his soul. I was in NYC when it happened, but let's jsut say I have never been back to that DZ.

Please don't tell us you are blaming the DZ for that. I'm sure you know the circumstances surrounding the incident.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[skyrider 0]

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Quote

...Then 2 years later another good friend of mine was on a staff load in texas and did not show up for 2 days. He was the plane organizer. they finally decided to look for him 2 days later and found him and discoverd he actually had crawled out of his harness. God bless his soul. I was in NYC when it happened, but let's jsut say I have never been back to that DZ.

Please don't tell us you are blaming the DZ for that. I'm sure you know the circumstances surrounding the incident.

I'm hoping she meant the jumpers should have paid more attention!

The DZ is not our parents , (not including students)...I hope thier focus is on keeping safe aircraft!

[shah269 0]

I'm glad I jump at a very small DZ.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[davjohns 1]

I think everyone at my DZ recognizes the commercial aspect of it. They guy who owns it has to meet bills and we all appreciate that what he does keeps us jumping. But, it is small enough that every time jumpers are out, most of the people not jumping go out and count canopies. If there is a cutaway, someone is chasing the canopy before the jumper hits the ground. If someone lands out, someone else is on the way to pick them up.

At least here, it is not a DZ as a commercial entity responsibility. It is a DZ as a family responsibility which happens to be tied to the commercial entity. Does that make sense? Not sure if large DZs have a chance of replicating that.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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I'm glad I jump at a very small DZ.

That has almost no bearing on anything.

What does matter is the experience level and heads up mentality of those that are there at the time.

No matter who sees someone have an off landing or go in, there should never be a response of "well I an a new guy or someone else has this one already"

Even if it is spotting a cut away, the more people that watch it come down gives an intersection and narrows the search area.

[shah269 0]

Well small as in we all know each other and keep an eye out for each other.
I have yet to venture out to larger DZ's but from those that visit most seem to like how the DZ behaves as a small family.

As for going out with no handles pulled......I don't know if it's the best way to go or the worst. Perhaps the best for you since in theory you wouldn't feel a thing. Impact speed would be significantly higher than the speed your body can precive pain. But perhaps the worst, think of what your friends having to ID your sorry ass.

I don't know. The world is a dark and sometimes lonely place at times. And I know the person who "goes in" is just trying to find peace even if is for just one moment. But maybe we should give all of our friends a good hug when we see them. I know for American's this is kind of abnormal. But human contact can go a long way to helping others see that life may not be perfect but at least they have an extended family.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[warpedskydiver 0]

Agreed.

[shah269 0]

Coming from a multicultural background, I have to say when it comes to human contact the only people who are worse than Americans are maybe the Finns.

I understand that it's our culture to work then promptly go home and maybe go out on a Saturday or Sunday but......it's not healthy.

Of all the cultures I have seen and places I have visited I would have to say Belgium and many of the South American countries such as Bolivia have a better culture with respect to interacting with friends and family.

Every other time I speak to my friend in Belgium or Bolivia they are either on their way to or hosting a little lunch or dinner for friends. And when I visit it's the same. Nothing fancy nothing expensive just a mid week get together for a little bit of food, coffee and a few good laughs.

Sounds like what everyone wants from their DZ

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[Nightingale 0]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39524861/ns/health-heart_health/?ns=health-heart_health

Hands-only CPR saves more lives in cardiac arrests
Ariz. study is largest to show that mouth-to-mouth breathing doesn't help


By CARLA K. JOHNSON
The Associated Press
updated 10/5/2010 5:21:26 PM ET 2010-10-05T21:21:26

CHICAGO — Hands-only CPR doesn't just eliminate the "yuck factor." A new study shows it can save more lives.

It's the first large American study to show more adults survived cardiac arrest when a bystander gave them continuous chest presses to simulate a heartbeat, compared to traditional CPR with mouth-to-mouth breathing.

"Anyone who can put one hand on top of the other, lock their elbows and push hard and fast can do this. No risk, no fear of causing harm," said lead author Dr. Ben Bobrow of the Arizona Department of Health Services in Phoenix.

"We want to take away all the reasons bystanders do nothing when they witness another person collapse."

With hands-only CPR, advocates say, potential rescuers don't have to contemplate what for some could be the "yuck factor" of putting their mouth to an unconscious person's mouth and breathing for them.

For others, the trimmed-down method simplifies a confusing procedure learned years ago and barely remembered — How many breaths? How many chest compressions? Are you supposed to pinch the nose?

Standard CPR with mouth-to-mouth and chest compressions is still best for very small children and victims of near-drowning and drug overdose, experts say, instances where breathing problems probably led to the cardiac arrest.

Rescue breathing can take too long
Nonstop chest compressions work better for adult cardiac arrest because most people take too long to do mouth-to-mouth, said senior author Dr. Gordon Ewy (pronounced AY'-vee) of the University of Arizona Sarver Heart Center.

After cardiac arrest, oxygenated blood can't get to the brain without help. Most rescuers take about 16 seconds to perform two CPR breaths — long enough to starve the organs of oxygen.

"Your hands are their heart," Ewy said. "When you stop pressing on the chest, blood flow to the brain stops."

A 2007 study of 4,068 out-of-hospital cardiac arrests in Japan found similar results, but other studies have found no difference between the two CPR methods.

The study, which appears in Wednesday's Journal of the American Medical Association, is also the first to show a statewide awareness campaign can increase bystanders' willingness to try CPR.

Arizona reached 500,000 people through public service announcements, YouTube, free classes, e-mails and inserts in utility bills, all promoting hands-only CPR.

Researchers looked at 4,415 adult cardiac arrests outside of hospitals in Arizona from 2005 to 2009 during the campaign.

The rate of bystanders attempting any type of CPR increased from 28 percent in 2005 to 40 percent in 2009. Bystanders were more likely to use hands-only CPR over traditional CPR as time went on.

And victims who got hands-only were more likely to survive: 113 of 849 victims (13 percent) who received the hands-only method survived, compared to 52 of 666 victims (about 8 percent) who received conventional CPR.

Arizona man saved by technique
Greg Stewart, a 54-year-old father of five, is one of the survivors thanks to hands-only CPR. His heart stopped at his Scottsdale, Ariz., home as he and his wife, Lu Ann, sat down to watch "Survivor" on television last year. She called 911.

"The dispatcher told me what to do. I got him out of the chair and onto the floor and at that point his face was really, really dark," Lu Ann Stewart said. She fought down panic.

With her daughter taking over the 911 call, Lu Ann began pressing her husband's chest.

"I got up on my knees and just started pressing as hard as I could. By golly, his color started to lighten," she said. She kept pushing hard and fast, ignoring her tired muscles. "He was gone a long time. I kept the blood pumping."

Minutes later — "it felt like hours" — paramedics arrived and took over.

Today, Greg Stewart is grateful.

"She's not a big lady," he said of his wife, his childhood sweetheart. "And yet she kept going and kept going."

His cardiac arrest was the result of a heart attack from blocked arteries; he later had bypass surgery.

The steps:

— If someone collapses, doesn't respond to gentle shaking and stops normal breathing, call 911 or tell someone else to call.

With the victim on his back, place the heel of one of your hands atop the other on the middle of the victim's breastbone.

— Lock your elbows. With your shoulders over your hands, fall forward using your body weight. Press 100 times a minute. Think of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" for the tempo.

— If an automated external defibrillator is available, switch it on and follow the instructions.

— If not, continue chest compressions until paramedics arrive.

New CPR guidelines in the works
In 2008, the American Heart Association said hands-only CPR works just as well as standard CPR for sudden cardiac arrest in adults. Later this month, the association plans to announce new CPR guidelines and is keeping them under wraps until then.

Guidelines committee chair Dr. Michael Sayre said the Arizona findings are too new to have been considered.

"Certainly their findings are compelling," Sayre said.

Sayre said he's impressed by the increase in bystander CPR achieved in Arizona.

"The real problem we have isn't the small difference between methods of CPR," he said. "The real problem we have is people doing nothing."

[shward 0]

But perhaps the worst, think of what your friends having to ID your sorry ass.

But maybe we should give all of our friends a good hug when we see them. I know for American's this is kind of abnormal. But human contact can go a long way to helping others see that life may not be perfect but at least they have an extended family.