why do you NOT jump a pullout?

[airtwardo 6]

but starting with jennie McCombs back in the day, a list of experienced people who have died chasing a pud until impact would be rather long.

I think over a career a pull out system will buy you at least a couple of reserve rides than you might otherwise have.

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I had forgotten about jennie...
You make good points and a strong argument,
I changed my decision on the rig I'm ordering...

I've NEVER had a problem with either, but after some thought I have to agree!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[murrays 0]

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All the problems the pull out was intended to cure have been negated by the BOC configuration.

Nick,

BOC sure hasn't cured pilot chutes in tow. They seem to quite a frequent topic of conversation.

A search for "Pilot Chute in Tow" brings up 30 pages of hits. I would assume these posts don't relate to people still using bellybands or ROL throw-outs.

I appreciate your comments about old Racers as that is what I jumped for 20+ years with a pull-out. Jump Shack used to supply you with a bridle that was about 4 feet long that would sit in your burble and not lift your bag off your back....just why they did that I don't know but it was stupid. However, on the old Racers with the Velcro side tabs the bag would stay put real good when the velcro was new...as I had to elbow my bag free a couple of times. I put up with that for a couple jumps on a new rig and then got an 8 foot long bridle and the problem was solved forever.

Pull-outs should not be jumped by anybody unless they are 100% going to be stable at pull time. A student or low-timer that might be on his back or side at pull time should not be jumping a pull-out. I think 100+ jumps is a good number.

I'm jumping a BOC now for wingsuit jumping but I still hate throwing and waiting to see if my pin gets pulled or not. I far prefer opening my container myself.

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

[rigging65 0]

Something I asked myself before changing to a pull-out several years ago: Do I want to unlock my container, or do I want to rely on something else to do it?

With a pull-out, your container is either open or closed...and you make it that way.

With a throw-out, your pilot chute is either "in" or "out" (assuming your BOC is working ok)...what happens with your container is then up to the pilot chute...and the bridle...and your burble...and...well, I guess that's it.

For my 2 cents (probably worth less than that), I'd rather have positive control over my container than trust anything else to do the job.

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[airtwardo 6]

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Something I asked myself before changing to a pull-out several years ago: Do I want to unlock my container, or do I want to rely on something else to do it?

With a pull-out, your container is either open or closed...and you make it that way.

With a throw-out, your pilot chute is either "in" or "out" (assuming your BOC is working ok)...what happens with your container is then up to the pilot chute...and the bridle...and your burble...and...well, I guess that's it.

For my 2 cents (probably worth less than that), I'd rather have positive control over my container than trust anything else to do the job.

***

I felt that way too, and it was the reason one of my rigs is a pull out...
And on a 'normal' skydive..if there is such a thing,
I'm quite confident in my skills to deploy a pull out.

That being said, fully 1/3 of the jumps I make in a year are demonstration jumps. I'm carrying all kinds of extra gear, and as often as not I'm pulling sub terminal and low.

I was reminded today of a demo jump a few years back in which through unforeseen circumstances
we found ourselves stepping off the wing of a Ju52
at about 60 kts at 1300 feet agl.

I was facing the relative wind...

grabbed the pull out and threw, only to feel the bag
bouncing off my ass as the PC slowly started
pulling it up and away...TALK ABOUT LINE TWIST!

Something like that doesn't happen every day,
but the guys with throw outs had less drama.

I now think for MY needs anyway a throw out is
a better choice.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[diablopilot 2]

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and as often as not I'm pulling sub terminal and low.

Then a pullout is a better choice.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[airtwardo 6]

Then a pullout is a better choice.

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That's why the BASE guys use them I'm sure...



Maybe I wasn't clear on the part about~

the bag bouncing off my ass as the PC slowly started pulling it up and away...
TALK ABOUT LINE TWIST! >

Keep in mind I had 2 boot brackets on just
looking for something to snag...and a Dbag going down faster than out.

On that jump I HAD a pull out, it was not the best choice. I watched the other 3 guys with throw outs
and the deployment was cleaner.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[SwampThing 0]

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For my 2 cents (probably worth less than that), I'd rather have positive control over my container than trust anything else to do the job.

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I have an idea for positive control of the container.

First we put a spring into the pilot chute, then run a "Cord" from the front to the back. When the skydiver pulls on the cord, the container "RIPS" open allowing the springloaded pilot chute to jump out into the wind stream.

We can call it a "Cord Rip"!

The Pessimist says: "It can't possibly get any worse!"
The Optimist says: "Sure it can!"

[GaryP 0]

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I'd rather have positive control over my container than trust anything else to do the job.

I love my pullout - basically the crux of the matter was that I wanted to be the one that opened the container. I didn't want to leave that job up to the PC. In the late '80's the choice was either that or leg-strap TAP and I didn't like the idea of bridle running down to my thigh

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First we put a spring into the pilot chute, then run a "Cord" from the front to the back. When the skydiver pulls on the cord, the container "RIPS" open allowing the springloaded pilot chute to jump out into the wind stream.

We can call it a "Cord Rip"!

Actually - not far from the truth. For me, pullout (or bunnytail) was the natural choice to progress from ripcord. It basically IS a ripcord, just one situated on the back of the rig and attached to a hand-deployed PC.

Both systems work fine as long as they are used and maintained within their design spec's. Work outside of what's required and you'll get bitten. Why ppl always blame equipment and not themselves I'll never know.

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That's why the BASE guys use them I'm sure...

TAP is chosen for BASE because:

1: It requires less movement and energy from the jumper to get the PC to bridle-stretch.

TAP - *reach back *grab PC *throw PC
Pullout - *reach back *grab pud HARD *peel velcro *pull pin & throw PC

2: It allows the jumper to go hand-held

3: Half the BASE rigs out there use velcro to close the container and some also use 2-pins making pullout system impossible

So don't try to make an argument that because BASErs use TAP that this proves the system is superior for skydiving. I have over 100 BASE jumps and I know that TAP is the best choice for this application. Remember, I'm a hard-nut pullout supporter but I had to give that up to go BASEing despite my desire to be in control of opening the container myself because I knew it's the correct setup for the application. It doesn't make it the correct choice for ALL parachute applications though.

Would I push a newbie in the direction of pullout - probably not because the BOC is proven to be effective and most gear on the market is BOC anyway so it'd make sense to have someone choose something they'd be more likely to come across in the mainstream of gear. I would certainly introduce them to pullout though.

g.

"Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it"

.

[JumpRu 14]

Just have a comment about pull out and "pilot chute hesitation". About a year ago I started having those and the reason was "old" pilot chute. That was F111 PC with probably 500 jumps on it so it was still in very good shape but once I changed it all my problems were gone. So for me new PC is very critical when jumping pull out.