How much $ is too much for it?

[BillyVance 34]

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I like girls who fuck on the first date.

Well . . . DUH.

I'm at the other end of that spectrum.

Believe it or not, I am too.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[anthonyfellows 0]

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I like girls who fuck on the first date.

Well . . . DUH.

I'm at the other end of that spectrum.

Believe it or not, I am too.

Let me be the first to say. I don't believe it. LOL :)

Serious relationships turn into work after a few weeks and I already got a fucking job :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
H.A.F. = Hard As Fuck ... Goddamn Amateurs

[LuckyMcSwervy 0]

Is that $200 before taxes, tips, parking, mileage, car wash, haircut, dry cleaning, etc.?

Always be kinder than you feel.

[davelepka 4]

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This question confuses me. Either you're out for a one night stand, in which case you should be maybe buying a couple drinks if you're chivalrous/old-fashioned (delete as appropriate), or you're looking for more, in which case if you're worrying about the money you're spending then the future's not looking too bright

I don't see how you can limit this to those two options. Look at it this way, if you have a significant other, you're going to spend a certain amount of money on them. Not to buy their love or affection, but in the course of the relationship and wanting to do things for them. You'll take them out to eat, movies, concerts, etc, and buy various gifts for them, with the actual dollar amount varying depending on your income and personality.

Now that we have that established, let's rewind to the beginning of the relationship. You meet a woman you like, and so you start to treat her like a significant other. This includes things like calling frequently, showing concern for her feelings and well-being, and yes, speding the money you would typically spend on your significant other.

In the beginning, all of these actions are done on the hope that the feelings are mutual, and that it will develop into a 'realtionship'. So you put yourself out there, and the question is, at what point do you pull back and realize that the feelings are not mutual, and it's not going to develop into what you want.

Like it or not, sex is a pretty big indicator that the feelings are, or are not, mutual. Drunken one-night stands aside, if you go on a few dates with a woman that are clearly dates, to include romatic settings, one-on-one conversation, and various signs of affection, and then you have sex, that's a pretty good sign that you both are interested in a close, intimate relationship.

So if you are trying for that type of relationship, and it's not materializing, at some point or another you need to cut your loses (emotional and yes, financial) and move on.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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I'm at the other end of that spectrum.

Believe it or not, I am too.

It's not as bad as it sounds.


Actually, it doesn't sound that bad . . .

[popsjumper 2]

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Is that $200 before taxes, tips, parking, mileage, car wash, haircut, dry cleaning, etc.?

Is it going to be Dutch Treat?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Southern_Man 0]

Well, usually they offer me at least $300

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[FreeFlyer2100 0]

Is everyone saying that nothing changes after sleeping with someone? I have dated some women that didn't at first keep me interested for the first few dates then after sleeping together she had a lot more to say. This of course is not right after the act but in follow up calls, dates and encounters. It could have just been me and that I wasn't hearing what she was saying until the sexual tension went away. It could also be that some of these women moved like a paint can shaker and after that just demanded my full attention. Who am I to say? But if you are dating someone who really isn't fitting into what you think is the perfect fit do you stick around and see if sex will change that? Do you set a dollar amount to spend to find out if the sexual tension really was the problem?

[James525 0]

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This question confuses me. Either you're out for a one night stand, in which case you should be maybe buying a couple drinks if you're chivalrous/old-fashioned (delete as appropriate), or you're looking for more, in which case if you're worrying about the money you're spending then the future's not looking too bright

I don't see how you can limit this to those two options. Look at it this way, if you have a significant other, you're going to spend a certain amount of money on them. Not to buy their love or affection, but in the course of the relationship and wanting to do things for them. You'll take them out to eat, movies, concerts, etc, and buy various gifts for them, with the actual dollar amount varying depending on your income and personality.

Now that we have that established, let's rewind to the beginning of the relationship. You meet a woman you like, and so you start to treat her like a significant other. This includes things like calling frequently, showing concern for her feelings and well-being, and yes, speding the money you would typically spend on your significant other.

In the beginning, all of these actions are done on the hope that the feelings are mutual, and that it will develop into a 'realtionship'. So you put yourself out there, and the question is, at what point do you pull back and realize that the feelings are not mutual, and it's not going to develop into what you want.

Like it or not, sex is a pretty big indicator that the feelings are, or are not, mutual. Drunken one-night stands aside, if you go on a few dates with a woman that are clearly dates, to include romatic settings, one-on-one conversation, and various signs of affection, and then you have sex, that's a pretty good sign that you both are interested in a close, intimate relationship.

So if you are trying for that type of relationship, and it's not materializing, at some point or another you need to cut your loses (emotional and yes, financial) and move on.

All reasonable and I basically agree. Maybe I haven't thought about the hypothetical situations, but going back to the OP having a rule so that if I'm seeing a girl I would at some point say "Sorry, I've spent $200 on you and not got any, its over." Yes, it often doesn't work out and sex is an important factor in any relationship but to have a cash limit seems weird.

My skydiving - http://unstable-exits.blogspot.com/

[davjohns 1]

Just tumbling this around in my head -

So basically, a guy is paying for sex. The form of payment is dinner, movie, etc., but it is still consideration for a personal service. If the woman does not perform that service by the time the man considers it paid in full, the man will find another vendor.

Other than the fact that the service is not guaranteed at the outset, how does this vary from regular ol' prostitution?

I'm sure it is just me, but I would think some women would find this train of thought offensive.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[BMichaeli 1]

clearly none of you are college students. Money and sex are huge factors and $200 is a lot to someone on my budget do i go for a nice date after the first (depends on the first) or go jumping? however some date happen after sex (pick girls up at the bar the night before) but those don't seem to last in my experience. class works better

[npgraphicdesign 2]

Money doesn't really matter...you don't gauge your potential partner by how much money you spend on them.

[skyflower_bloom 0]

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Just tumbling this around in my head -

So basically, a guy is paying for sex. The form of payment is dinner, movie, etc., but it is still consideration for a personal service. If the woman does not perform that service by the time the man considers it paid in full, the man will find another vendor.

Other than the fact that the service is not guaranteed at the outset, how does this vary from regular ol' prostitution?

I'm sure it is just me, but I would think some women would find this train of thought offensive.

No it's not just you- it's a valid point. I don't necessarily find prostitution immoral if it's consenting adults, but from a larger perspective, I find it pretty darn distasteful that relationships, marriage, families, and meaningful personal interactions can become so distorted in our society- anything from paying to feel affection, or paying for sex, to the use of advertising techniques that make people buy shit they don't need because the company "cares about them..." Again bigger picture it's messed up, as a whole-- but acknowledging that I don't think there is anything wrong with it. That said, I would be pissed if a guy was tallying how much he was spending and correlating that to when in our relationship we chose to get intimate... if you are going to play the money--> sex game, acknowledge it! I do totally see the point that chemistry and sexual compatibility are part of determining long term relationship, but the way you put it OP is rather crude, if that is actually the terms in which you think and respond.. I mean are there not other variables that could come into play? Because yeah, if it is just money and sex without other contingencies or considerations... idk.

It totally depends on what you want out of dating I guess- casual dating etc. if one of the goals is to have a sex partner then ok it may make more sense, but I still dislike the dollar amount conceptualization unless it is pretty clear that it is a friends with benefits thing, or some kind of "arrangement."

And yes, we women know pretty early most of the time when we will want to sleep with someone and/or when we see them as relationship material-- but there are benefits to waiting to throw in the physical dimension imo especially if the long term is a consideration and if you are taking things at their natural pace. It's not so much even the correlation between a set amount of time and interaction and when you feel that the sexual chemistry should be established, it's that you are putting a dollar amount on it-- and also, it's not individualized. We women are people too you know. If you feel that you are not compatible, move on-- if you feel you are but are not yet sleeping together and you want to be-- TALK ABOUT IT! It's called communication Discuss where things are going, what you feel, etc.

Maybe her equivalent "rule" is no sex till he spends at least $1000...

More likely, maybe she likes you too but doesn't want to be seen as "easy" or in it only for casual purposes due to those views and stereotypes/double standards.

Maybe she's (good luck with this one!) waiting for marriage

Maybe she somehow thought YOU were not interested because you feared being too aggressive and she is used to having the man more as the aggressor.

Maybe she feels that something really awesome is developing and knows that sexuality can cloud judgment and confuse things, and is intentionally wanting to wait to add that into the equation so as to focus first on developing communication, comfort, compatibility in other ways, etc.

Maybe she has been sexually abused or assaulted and has trust issues, and may wait longer than a woman who has not. Maybe she has self esteem issues or a medical condition.

Maybe she just has a different point where it feels right than you, and it has nothing to do with you spending money on dating her!

The point being, if there's ongoing dating, and sex is assumed to be, at some given point, obviously varying, a part of dating/relationships, the topic is not out of bounds after awhile; you should be able to talk about it.

I just don't see how you can oversimplify *dating* relationships (where presumed affection and/or ongoing mutual investment in one another's lives is presumed) to boil them down to *that* extent. It is somewhat beyond me, again *if* you are implying there is intent beyond spending money and getting laid, which it seems you are?

And this is totally not an attack, and I'm not really offended per se, I just think there are other ways of looking at it. Obviously, OP, you have very different life experience and perspective than me, so do what works.

And, most men probably agree with you and have a "point" at which they decide they have invested enough in something that is not going to move forward and thus move on-- women too, though possibly factored differently-- it's just that I would hope/think that many factors and open discussion would play a role, and the decision would be mutual, and not just whether or not actual intercourse has happened at x point in time.

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

[skyflower_bloom 0]

Oh, one more thing--

If you DO decide to take my "communicate" advice, note that I am not advising you say "Look, I just calculated our running total, and if we order dessert, you will be at $204.11. I hate to have to bring this up now, but do you think you could tell me whether we're going to having sex tonight, so that we can decide whether to proceed with the rest of our meal?"

(It sounds silly but really, you are doing yourself a disservice by not looking at the stages of dating and sex as mutual decisions to be discussed together.)

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

[davjohns 1]

Got lots of feelings bottled up in there, Bloom?

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[davelepka 4]

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So basically, a guy is paying for sex. The form of payment is dinner, movie, etc., but it is still consideration for a personal service. If the woman does not perform that service by the time the man considers it paid in full, the man will find another vendor.

No, that's not it.

The man is shopping for a significant other. When you meet a woman you like, you show it by treating them like a significant other, and yes, part of that includes spending money on them, more money than you spend on 'just a friend'. It's not that you're trying to buy their love or sex, it's that you're looking for a person who you like more than any other, and you will treat that person differently than 'just a friend'. You would also spend more time with them, share more personal details with them, and try to be more helpful to them than you would to 'just a friend'. It's what seperates a significant other from 'just a friend', it's what makes them your #1 priority, with everyone esle in 2nd place or below.

Now when you start to treat someone in this way, you're hoping that it will be reciprocated. One way you know the feelings are mutual is that the person tells you so. Of course, some people don't like to talk about their feelings like that right away, so another way you might know is by their actions. If they appear to hold you above all others, that's a good sign, but another good sign is physical intimacy.

The question here isn't suggesting the sex is the only goal, and the money isn't the only perameter, just that sex is one goal and money is one perameter. Just like every woman here has dated a man that clearly was only interested in sex, and was willing to do or say anything it took to make that happen, there are men who have dated women who were clearly not interested in sex, and willing to do or say anything to make sure that it didn't happen while continuing to date the man.

So if you take a woman out, and show them a good time with a nice meal, some drinks, and maybe a show, and even though they don't want to become a 'signifcant other' to you, they continue to date you because you show them a good time, where do you draw the line? At some point you need to stop treating them like a significant other because it's clear that they are not interested in becoming your significant other. If you didn't 'cut the cord' at some point, you would still be treating every woman you ever dated like a significant other, and that's just not possible. When you treat everyone (or even just more than one) that way, it ceases to be significant, and becomes the 'norm'.

[skyflower_bloom 0]

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Got lots of feelings bottled up in there, Bloom?

Haha yes actually! I get really pissed off at the majority of people who don't seem to get that COMMUNICATING is the rational and logical way to attempt to live in harmony with or at least tolerate those in our vicinity... (no I am not having sex-communication issues, at the moment, lol- but it is the same root issue when you go and make decisions arbitrarily without even considering talking about the whys and hows with the people affected)

Bah humanity is just rather pissing me off at the moment, sorry. Lol. (No not just men, not a gender thing either, just one random outlet for my general GRRRR. I swear my toddler sometimes makes more rational decisions than some people I know, and that scares me a wee bit!

I'll survive.

Continue on with your regularly scheduled programming folks..

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

[monkycndo 0]

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Got lots of feelings bottled up in there, Bloom?

You read the whole post?

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[skyflower_bloom 0]

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Got lots of feelings bottled up in there, Bloom?

You read the whole post?

Not necessarily- though he can speak for himself if he likes haha-- he probably just glanced at the screen, and made a logical inference from the body of text that appeared in front of his eyes


But yeah, I s'pose I got a lot to say about how someone can think in those terms- it's an individual and unique relationship between PEOPLE, and guess what- you can open your mouths and you can even TALK if you ask her to, if there is a potential issue! Lol. What a concept...

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

[skyflower_bloom 0]

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...
The question here isn't suggesting the sex is the only goal, and the money isn't the only perameter, just that sex is one goal and money is one perameter. Just like every woman here has dated a man that clearly was only interested in sex, and was willing to do or say anything it took to make that happen, there are men who have dated women who were clearly not interested in sex, and willing to do or say anything to make sure that it didn't happen while continuing to date the man.

So if you take a woman out, and show them a good time with a nice meal, some drinks, and maybe a show, and even though they don't want to become a 'significant other' to you, they continue to date you because you show them a good time, where do you draw the line?...

Fair enough I suppose.. the poll just doesn't seem to acknowledge that at all, because with a set dollar amount as the factor, no other factors are taken into play and there can be considerable variation (if it is a first tandem- i.e. whuffo taking a girl, not a TI/TM doing it himself, you'd get one date already over the 200 limit- say 200 bucks for her tandem, plus the gas to drive there and maybe a meal, your own tandem if you do one, maybe video, etc. and you are already over that but haven't really even spent significant time getting to be together and talk privately.

Whereas, if you have ten "hang out at your house and talk about everything for hours" dates and a few coffee dates, you could only spend 20 bucks, or each pay your own until you get to know where things are headed, but at that point, a few dollars in, be close enough that it's time to discuss where things are going and be really intimate on many levels.

And like I said, even if the number is a factor (dollar amount) it doesn't change the fact that all women have different perceptions and motives and the only way to decide what to do is talk about it. The question posed implies that there was no "talking" involved, or that if that discussion happened, it would on some level be an ultimatum (put out or get out) rather than a genuine attempt to mutually figure out where things were at.

And, I know that to communicate and discuss things in any meaningful way online and in person, we have to assign oversimplified measurements and communicate in terms we all share. And of course, money and sex are surely part of the picture, even a big part of it- perhaps it's just that the poll/original post came off presenting them as the FOUNDATION- which as davjohns said, and i concurred, seems no different than shopping around for a friend with benefits casual dating arrangement or yes, an escort.

Point taken though..

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

[kbordson 8]

The other thing to take into consideration in this "poll" is about the value of a dollar and the value of sex.

In discussing "The Dollar." I'm going to quote a favorite book of mine: "Money is a tool of exchange." If you are considering the dinner to be a payment expecting an exchange, what do you expect from this exchange? The honest answer is "sex" (or "services" of some sort)

So lets talk more about this "exchange"

For some gentlemen, $200 is a substantial portion of his monthly budget (maybe over a months worth in groceries), while for others it might represent his "entertainment" monies for a weekend at the "club." But why consider JUST "The Dollar." What about time? What if he spends HOURS talking with her about skydiving in a teaching (not SkyGod) manner... doesn't drop a penny, but basically teaches her the SIM. How much time is too much for sex? What about "services" that he might provide? Like helping fix things in her house/car? (AND.... what if SHE actually has the 4wd truck with the Vortec 6.0L V8 and the Z85 Handling/Trailering suspension that actually pulls YOUR honda out of the ditch?)



Now the "services" on her part (the sex).... are we talking intimacy and a REAL GROWNUP relationship or just sex cuz you can't take care of "needs" in the bathroom with a magazine? AND... what is the "price difference" between the two situations?






Finally, before I can truly apply the results of this poll, there should be some comment made to address the sampling error and bias of this specific population. afterall .... we ARE skydivers. One jump is approx $25 (in the US... specifically at Elsinore) So... after 8 jumps, is the natural exchange a "jump"?

[Nightingale 0]

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Davjohns I'm liking you more and more the way you respond to these things.

In answer to the question by the OP:
Keep in mind that I play these things conservatively, but as a woman, the more a man tries to spend on me early on the less likely he is to get it anytime soon. So, pool, some beers, and trashy food at a diner at 2 am and everything else is clicking there's definitely a good night kiss in the picture. Show up at the door with a dozen roses and take me to Morton's and I'll spend the night wondering who you think you asked out and why you're trying so hard. Not that I don't like Morton's, just that no one should be trying that hard on a first date and I don't like it when I feel like some guy is trying to "buy me".

Admittedly, I'm weird and not normal.

Yeah, totally agree.

A while ago, I ran into a guy who was an acquaintance a few years ago. We started chatting, he asked me out, details to be worked out later. When he emailed me, the places he was suggesting to go were all a couple hundred bucks. Completely freaked me out, and I never called him even though one of the places he suggested is probably my favorite restaurant (he doesn't know that). Places like that are for a special occasion. For a first date, coffee and maybe a movie would've been awesome. Admittedly, I probably handled the situation poorly, though.

[airdvr 197]

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Davjohns I'm liking you more and more the way you respond to these things.

In answer to the question by the OP:
Keep in mind that I play these things conservatively, but as a woman, the more a man tries to spend on me early on the less likely he is to get it anytime soon. So, pool, some beers, and trashy food at a diner at 2 am and everything else is clicking there's definitely a good night kiss in the picture. Show up at the door with a dozen roses and take me to Morton's and I'll spend the night wondering who you think you asked out and why you're trying so hard. Not that I don't like Morton's, just that no one should be trying that hard on a first date and I don't like it when I feel like some guy is trying to "buy me".

Admittedly, I'm weird and not normal.

Yeah, totally agree.

A while ago, I ran into a guy who was an acquaintance a few years ago. We started chatting, he asked me out, details to be worked out later. When he emailed me, the places he was suggesting to go were all a couple hundred bucks. Completely freaked me out, and I never called him even though one of the places he suggested is probably my favorite restaurant (he doesn't know that). Places like that are for a special occasion. For a first date, coffee and maybe a movie would've been awesome. Admittedly, I probably handled the situation poorly, though.

So I'm curious. If you had gone to one of those fancy restaurants he suggested do you think he would have expected you to play hide the sausage with him afterwards?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Muffie 0]

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Admittedly, I probably handled the situation poorly, though.

I would've probably done the same. From my experience, if a guy is a spender (someone who likes to buy really expensive meals or give lots of gifts, etc.) he's going to be all weird about it if you ask him not to. So, you can either go along with it or walk away.

Airdvr - in response to your question to Nightingale. I dated a guy like that for about a month who didn't even try to kiss me but probably took me out to nice restaurants about three times a week, bought me clothes, wanted to buy me a GPS for my car, etc. We had many discussions about his attitudes around all this. His view was he had the money and liked to spend it. It always made me feel weird (esp. the non-meal purchases), but every time I tried to pick-up a meal here or there or refused to let him buy me something it made things feel even more weird. So, I went back to avoiding those types even though I really liked him otherwise.

[Nightingale 0]

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Davjohns I'm liking you more and more the way you respond to these things.

In answer to the question by the OP:
Keep in mind that I play these things conservatively, but as a woman, the more a man tries to spend on me early on the less likely he is to get it anytime soon. So, pool, some beers, and trashy food at a diner at 2 am and everything else is clicking there's definitely a good night kiss in the picture. Show up at the door with a dozen roses and take me to Morton's and I'll spend the night wondering who you think you asked out and why you're trying so hard. Not that I don't like Morton's, just that no one should be trying that hard on a first date and I don't like it when I feel like some guy is trying to "buy me".

Admittedly, I'm weird and not normal.

Yeah, totally agree.

A while ago, I ran into a guy who was an acquaintance a few years ago. We started chatting, he asked me out, details to be worked out later. When he emailed me, the places he was suggesting to go were all a couple hundred bucks. Completely freaked me out, and I never called him even though one of the places he suggested is probably my favorite restaurant (he doesn't know that). Places like that are for a special occasion. For a first date, coffee and maybe a movie would've been awesome. Admittedly, I probably handled the situation poorly, though.

So I'm curious. If you had gone to one of those fancy restaurants he suggested do you think he would have expected you to play hide the sausage with him afterwards?

No idea. It had been years since I'd seen him and I didn't know him all that well before, so I can't really say what his expectations would have been. I can say for sure that when someone asks me to dinner for a first date that my expectations are...dinner.

Regardless, I would have been very uncomfortable with him spending that much money on me, which is why I avoided the situation.