JonM 0 #26 October 20, 2010 QuoteAlso, watch the wffc video from 2005 I believe where a pilot chute gets loose on climbout and canopy goes over the otter tail...people try grabbing a runaway handle to no avail, and you can see how fast it happens. Link? All I could find is this: http://www.amador.org/gallery2/v/movies//Wffc%202004%20Canopy%20Accident.mpg But it's clear from that one that the d-bag came out and dragged the PC out of the pouch... -Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtnesbitt 0 #27 October 20, 2010 Ah yeah, that's the one. I got this incident confused with another one where it was a reserve."If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #28 October 20, 2010 QuoteQuoteAlso, watch the wffc video from 2005 I believe where a pilot chute gets loose on climbout and canopy goes over the otter tail...people try grabbing a runaway handle to no avail, and you can see how fast it happens. Link? All I could find is this: http://www.amador.org/gallery2/v/movies//Wffc%202004%20Canopy%20Accident.mpg But it's clear from that one that the d-bag came out and dragged the PC out of the pouch... -Jon That's it. Not "exactly" the same situation, but it illustrates difficulty in cutting away for someone else and the speed with which it happens once fabric (pc, bag, canopy) hits the wind. Bottom line, get them out of/off of the aircraft before they take it with them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyper 0 #29 October 20, 2010 Quote One time, after checking my hacky, a student who thought I needed it and couldn’t reach it was kind enough to pull it out and hand it to me. maybe she just wanted to check your D... lines ;) and any kind of knife in this situation would not help... if you get stuck on your chute on the out side of the plane, the procedure is clear: take position, cut main, pull reserve... crash plane... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF0PJouEWNU Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyper 0 #30 October 20, 2010 Quote This thread does have me wondering. Is there a demarcation point. For instance, if your PC is out (and lets say heading out the door) but your pin is still in place should you follow out or attempt to pull back in? when you spot the PC "walking" to the door the next moment it would probably be out of the door! I consider the door as a mouth of a big vacum-cleaner. The procedure I ever learned for handling this: When you see (your) PC going to the door with no lines out you try to catch it. When you see your PC going to the door and your lines are out (container open) you grab all that mess including PC and you jump out. At this video you can see at 0:04 how quickly his pilow was sucked out of the plane. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDBrdl2sZWs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianM 1 #31 October 20, 2010 Quoteand any kind of knife in this situation would not help... if you get stuck on your chute on the out side of the plane, the procedure is clear: take position, cut main, pull reserve... crash plane... A knife will definitely help if it is your reserve that is over the tail!"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyper 0 #32 October 20, 2010 QuoteA knife will definitely help if it is your reserve that is over the tail! I never thought of that possibility. Hmm. If that is reserve, than is the question how big are the chances that the main will still remain in the container during this shake job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtnesbitt 0 #33 October 20, 2010 QuoteQuoteA knife will definitely help if it is your reserve that is over the tail! I never thought of that possibility. Hmm. If that is reserve, than is the question how big are the chances that the main will still remain in the container during this shake job. That is the exact reason i bought a hook knife. I cant remember what incident it was, but there have been a couple videos of reserves getting stuck on the tail."If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyper 0 #34 October 20, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteA knife will definitely help if it is your reserve that is over the tail! I never thought of that possibility. Hmm. If that is reserve, than is the question how big are the chances that the main will still remain in the container during this shake job. That is the exact reason i bought a hook knife. I cant remember what incident it was, but there have been a couple videos of reserves getting stuck on the tail. can you remember if the main also poped up during this blow job or it remained in the container? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtnesbitt 0 #35 October 20, 2010 I know I have seen at least 2 videos, but can only picture one right now, but in both cases the main was still int eh container. In the recent incident, the reserve went over the tail, but then came free leaving the guy with a ball of shit. After fighting it through almost all his altitude he decided to throw his main and fortunately everything worked out. I seem to remember seeing a video though of another person actually stuck on the tail with their reserve, but i have no idea which incident that was or how it ended."If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #36 October 20, 2010 Google or Youtube "parachute on tail" and violà! This is a Twin Otter, and it all ended well, with some minor damage to the plane. There was also a fatal incident where it brought down a Cessna. At my very original home dropzone, an instructor had to push someone out because of a loose pilot chute that went out of the door. It all ended well, he went under the tail harmlessly, and then later quit skydiving. Even my instructor taught me that if *any* fabric has left the plane, you're going out regardless, whether on your own or by someone else pushing you out. I agree with the decision to push someone out, if his pilot chute has already left the door. Just look at the ripped-fuselage-side photograph (because he didn't leave or get pushed out first) in Dan Poynter's book and you'll agree with me, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #37 October 21, 2010 Just something to consider - people sit against the wall in the tail of an Otter. The bolts that hold the seatbelts go into that wall. There is a possibility of a snag point for hacky fabric or a loop of bridle. If people are leaning against that wall on the ride up, they should ask for a lower-pin/bridle check. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #38 October 21, 2010 Quote Just something to consider - people sit against the wall in the tail of an Otter. The bolts that hold the seatbelts go into that wall. There is a possibility of a snag point for hacky fabric or a loop of bridle. If people are leaning against that wall on the ride up, they should ask for a lower-pin/bridle check. Exactly! Also, people sitting on the floor at the rear of the plane with their backs to the benches usually have the person at the end of the bench straddling their rig. Their hackey could easily be stepped on and when they stand up at 'door time' a loose pc can easily fly out the door. Imagine a similar situation with the door propped open foot high and the pc flies out!! If the d-bag makes it out the door and the canopy is deployed, imagine all the possibly bad scenarios. It's why I always cringe a bit when people prop the door.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #39 October 21, 2010 This one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Bv_NqiT7pM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LongWayToFall 0 #40 October 21, 2010 Scary! Is the comment in the video correct, that with a skyhook, if the reserve is deployed it cuts away automatically????? That doesn't seem right Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andreeb77 0 #41 October 21, 2010 No, of course not. The skyhook is an RSL that additionally uses your main canopy for reserve deployment (cutaway main functions as a very big reserve pilot chute). If you don't cutaway and deploy your main, the skyhook does not "get active" as this is in no way different from a normal deployment (with the minor difference that there is a reserve above you already ). For more info: http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=64 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NovaTTT 1 #42 October 21, 2010 QuoteJust don`t touch anyone else`s handles. Exactly the point, and whuffos, students and tandem pax need to be told, as part of training or if they're just hanging around, Don't touch anyone's gear - Period!"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NovaTTT 1 #43 October 21, 2010 QuoteScary! Is the comment in the video correct, that with a skyhook, if the reserve is deployed it cuts away automatically????? That doesn't seem right Part of the Skyhook RSL system is a main riser release component. When the loaded main riser deploys the Skyhook, a Collins lanyard pulls the yellow cable that secures the non-loaded main riser - if the yellow cable is still there. This might be the case, for example, if the yellow cable is too long and the cutaway pull only extracts the cable on the loaded side. A key feature of the Skyhook is to ensure the main is not attached when the reserve container opens. In the event of a riser failure on the loaded main riser, for example, the Skyhook will pull the yellow cable on the non-loaded side before the reserve pin is pulled by the RSL lanyard."Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrmrangers 0 #44 October 23, 2010 i love the comment above the first video " i had a small malfunction"!!! im a newbie but i would think being drag out the door and hooked on the tail of the plane for a bit would be considered a little more than minor!!!Wait , I pull what first? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #45 October 24, 2010 QuoteIn certain situations, a pilot chute outside of a quickly closed door and/or a tightly secured skydiver might be a situation that can be dealt with. Close the door and the jumper is going to be pulled right through it. "Tightly secure" them... and whatever is being used to hold them down will be broken, or taken out with them. If a PC goes out the door.... Shove the dude out. If it is yours get the hell out. We did this experiment.... Give it a whirl yourselves. Get a PC (either get one from a rigger, or take one off your main) and STARTING AT A DEAD STOP AND ONLY HOLDING IT hold it out your car window and start driving down the road. See how fast you can get it before it wants to rip your arm off. Let us know how this works out for you...... Video it for grins."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
