Loose Pilot Chute on Plane

[VideoFly 0]

Another recent pilot chute loose in the airplane incident has given me reason to pass this reminder on.
Shooting video often places me in the unique situation of sitting on the airplane in front of first time jump students who have no clue as to what I am wearing on my back. When I sit, I check my pilot chute handle and tell the student behind me to excuse me, but I will be checking my handle throughout the flight and that I am not grabbing at them. One time, after checking my hacky, a student who thought I needed it and couldn’t reach it was kind enough to pull it out and hand it to me. Additionally, on a tight plane ride, pilot chute handles often become painful when they get pressed into the thigh of the person behind you. Oftentimes, when that happens, they move the handle to the side, sometimes displacing the pilot chute. Furthermore, people moving about excessively, seat belts, plane parts, seats, and other objects can cause problems with pilot chute placements.
For these reasons, I stress that when approaching the door of the plane, final personal gear checks need to be done, including checking your chest strap, reserve and cutaway handles, goggles, helmet straps, and of course, your pilot chute handle.

[SRI85 0]

so a student thought you couldnt reach your handle, and he pulled your pilot chute out, thinking he was helping you out? disregarding the seriousness of the situation, i think thats kinda funny.

[popsjumper 2]

Ahhhh...leave the door open on take-off.
If a PC goes out the door it's YOUR fault for not maintaining your gear.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Hellis 0]

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so a student thought you couldnt reach your handle, and he pulled your pilot chute out, thinking he was helping you out? disregarding the seriousness of the situation, i think thats kinda funny.

Funny, yes but also very serious that there is such flaw in student training.
Even if it is a first time student you should know what the handles are, and when to pull them.

[VideoFly 0]

She was a tandem student, mostly trained in what is in the tandem rig and harness construction, and exiting, flying, and landing positions. Tandem students often no nothing about regular parachute gear. Fortunately, we were toward the front of the plane, behind the pilot, with the door closed. On the lighter side, while a srious breech of procedure, it was a bit amusing. Since then, I often ask students not to mess with my gear.

[ridestrong 1]

Also a good reason to not prop the door of the Otter, King Air, PAC, etc... open a 1/4 of the way on hot days or even if someone ripped ass. On the off chance that a pc flew out the door while partially propped open it could be bad for everyone.

Don't prop the door!!! It should be all or nothin!

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[normiss 622]

Good reminder to TI's to tell their students to NOT touch anyone's gear on the aircraft.

[format 0]

maybe we should put those "DO NOT TOUCH" airplane stickers all around hackies and handles and on....

well, on some other places

What goes around, comes later.

[fcajump 153]

Yea, but almost immediately we'd start seeing jump suits with "Please Touch, Feel, Grope" stickers all over them...

(teach the students)

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[steve1 5]

This has me wondering how much pull does an average pilot chute, on a main, have? I'll bet most riggers know the answer to that.

On the old belly wart reserves the pilot chute had about 200 lbs. of pull, at terminal, if I remember right. Much of the time you were facing the door, so if your reserve did open, the spring loaded pilot chute went flying that direction. Not good!

I'm just wondering if there is any way a skydiver could hold the canopy inside the plane if the pilot chute did go out the door. The door frame might help for leverage. I think most people know that if a chute does open, the smart thing to do is jump on the canopy and try to get ahold of the pilot chute....if there is time.

B.J. Worth had his belly reserve open while he was putting out a student on static line. Luckily they jumped on the pilot chute and canopy, and closed the door before disaster happened.... That was how the story was told to me, by Bob Smith. Bob was flying that load. The student was wondering what all the cussing was about, why everyone was trying to close the door so fast, and why the pilot was grabbing things instead of flying the plane....

[hchunter614 0]

In student training we teach that if a pilot chute goes out the door, whoever is attached to it also goes out the door. If it's yours, you follow it out. If it's someone elses you push them out.

[popsjumper 2]

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Don't prop the door!!! It should be all or nothin!

Can you justify the "all" part of that?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[ManagingPrime 0]

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so a student thought you couldnt reach your handle, and he pulled your pilot chute out, thinking he was helping you out? disregarding the seriousness of the situation, i think thats kinda funny.

I think it's pretty funny as well.

All the bumping, rubbing and yes, tandems have me checking my PC handle many times on the ride up. I was also taught to go out the door with the PC if there is an issue.

This thread does have me wondering. Is there a demarcation point. For instance, if your PC is out (and lets say heading out the door) but your pin is still in place should you follow out or attempt to pull back in?

[VideoFly 0]

I think that would depend on each individual situation. If a plane is climbing and flaps are up, you might be sending a jumper into a tail strike and/or tail-parachute entanglement. In certain situations, a pilot chute outside of a quickly closed door and/or a tightly secured skydiver might be a situation that can be dealt with. We might not want to necessarily always throw the baby out with the bath water.

[jtnesbitt 0]

I think its very cut and dry.

If the PC gets out, it WILL pull the pin and it's going to pull it fast. If a person is close enough to the door to allow the PC to get out, then the dbag can most likely just as easily get out. A plane will not fly with a canopy inflating next to or behind it. Could luck trying to secure someone who has a canopy inflating out the door.

I understand what you are saying about throwing someone into a tailstrike, but if you dont you are risking everyone else and these things happen so fast there isnt time to think just react.

Again, just my opinion. If that PC goes out th door, a body needs to follow no matter what.

"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

[riggerrob 558]

One of Poynter's books includes a photo of a Cessna 206 damaged when a pilot chute got loose.
The rear door frame was destroyed when the jumper was yanked out of the airplane!
The only saving grace was that Cessna 206s lack the fuel lines and control cables found in the rear door frames of most other single-engined
Cessnas.

[ridestrong 1]

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Don't prop the door!!! It should be all or nothin!

Can you justify the "all" part of that?

Completely closed at take off... until 2,000 ft and seat belts off... then 'all or nothing'.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[JohnMitchell 14]

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If a plane is climbing and flaps are up, you might be sending a jumper into a tail strike and/or tail-parachute entanglement.

If the canopy inflates while the jumper is still in the plane, he will tear up/out the rear of the doorframe and still has a very good chance of striking the tail, starting out as he did at floor level. If you huck him out before linestretch, he start falling below the level of the floor and have a better chance of missing the trail.

[DocPop 1]

What about cutting away when this happens?

I have no idea if this will work as I don;t know how quickly it all happens but I would think that someone could grab a cutaway handle and pull it quicker than they could throw someone out of the plane.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[labrys 0]

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I think that would depend on each individual situation. If a plane is climbing and flaps are up, you might be sending a jumper into a tail strike and/or tail-parachute entanglement.

Students are generally taught to react to situations they are most likely to encounter. Subtle situations are things they are expected to learn later.

Most students are only in the door when the plane is configured for jumping. If a student is near an open door with the plane climbing and the flaps up without knowing the subtle differences, their instructor(s) have dropped the ball.

Owned by Remi #?

[ridestrong 1]

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What about cutting away when this happens?

I have no idea if this will work as I don;t know how quickly it all happens but I would think that someone could grab a cutaway handle and pull it quicker than they could throw someone out of the plane.

Probably not the greatest idea... with some people having RSL's and all...

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[jtnesbitt 0]

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What about cutting away when this happens?

I have no idea if this will work as I don;t know how quickly it all happens but I would think that someone could grab a cutaway handle and pull it quicker than they could throw someone out of the plane.

As someone already mentioned, now you have to worry about the RSL, and you sure as hell dont have time to disconnect it.

I'm all for innovation and developing new and better ways to deal and handle emergencies, but when a PC goes out the door it really is a case of Acom's Razor. If a body does not immediately follow that PC, people are going to get hurt or die. Prevention is the key to this, but if it isnt prevented, then there is NO time to think, just react, that's why we teach and train the way we do.

"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

[mircan 0]

As I remember, not long ago very experienced jumper died when student tried to put back his dislodged reserve handle, at the door, on exit.
Just don`t touch anyone else`s handles.

dudeist skydiver #42

[wildcard451 0]

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What about cutting away when this happens?

I have no idea if this will work as I don;t know how quickly it all happens but I would think that someone could grab a cutaway handle and pull it quicker than they could throw someone out of the plane.

As someone already mentioned, now you have to worry about the RSL, and you sure as hell dont have time to disconnect it.

I'm all for innovation and developing new and better ways to deal and handle emergencies, but when a PC goes out the door it really is a case of Acom's Razor. If a body does not immediately follow that PC, people are going to get hurt or die. Prevention is the key to this, but if it isnt prevented, then there is NO time to think, just react, that's why we teach and train the way we do.

Also, watch the wffc video from 2005 I believe where a pilot chute gets loose on climbout and canopy goes over the otter tail...people try grabbing a runaway handle to no avail, and you can see how fast it happens.

[jtnesbitt 0]

I bought a hook knife after watching that video

"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero