Bully ownage!

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

I thought the best advice I've heard of a father giving his kid was:

"Don't you ever start a fight!
But if someone starts one with you, I expect you to finish it."

~A lot of similarities between you and I.

My dad was a boxer before I came along, I'd heard some stories but the best one was from my uncle, dad's brother.

Uncle Lenny was golden gloves and top ranked in the Navy (WWII), after the war he and my dad got into it at a bar one night. I guess it like Tyson and a toddler, Lenny says all he remembers is waking up on the floor, and eating through a straw for a month

SO....of course as a kid I asked pops to teach me. We had a heavy bag and a speed bag hung up, and kind of a ring in the basement. I had skills and could fight, but like you, didn't have the mental part right. My fight or flight instinct always said RUN!

And yeah, as a kid that just opens you up to more abuse.

Got into martial arts in High School, got the mental aspects of personal combat squared away. Key thing I learned is never start a fight & and the fights not over until you win.

Only had two real fights in high school, both with the same bully...sophomore year he sucker punched me in the face, I had braces and he said something about a pretty smile, then I saw stars. Senior year he grabbed my hippie ponytail and started to slam my head into a locker door, I had it together by then and actually gave him a quick clinic on receiving an asswhopin'.

Couple days later he shook my hand and apologised.


When I started my senior year of High School I was 5'8" 155#...when I started College a year later I was 6' 4" 210# and still filling out. For SOME odd reason I didn't get messed with too much.

I Boxed and played football in college...worked as a bouncer quite a bit both in college and for years afterwards, Disco's and Strip-clubs were my 'speciality'.

You control the situation because don't really want to 'hurt' a customer...practice verbal & physical deflection followed by measured aggression.

Idea isn't to be tough and win a fight but to avoid having to...thought I was pretty good at it until one night at the door of a strip club in San Diego.

I got stabbed and totally lost control, five minutes later two cops tackled me to keep me from killing the guy. I honestly don't remember what happened, it was testified to that I knocked him out then proceeded to pick him up several times and slam him down on a fire hydrant. I got fired (understandably from a liability standpoint) and we both got charged...mine was dismissed.

I was about 25, have never been a physical altercation since...pretty spooky when ya meet your 'Mr. Hyde', never want to again!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[JohnnyMarko 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

In today's society, is it a sign of weakness for the party being picked on to simply walk away without standing up for yourself?

It's a sign of strength to walk away at first. Later, the strength comes from HOW you choose to stand up when/if it continues......

Why do people think that a bully will stop the bullying if you turn to walk away???
Newflash: He is a *BULLY*!!!
There is no Bully Honor Code that says he must stop because you choose not to fight.

I was the victim of bullying all through Jr & Sr High school.
I know how they operate.
I went through all the useless motions of reporting it to teachers, etc.
Unless you have a bodyguard at your side from the moment you leave home until the moment you
return, the only thing that is going to work is to unload on the bully with everything you have.
Bullys aren't bright enough to respect anything other than aggression directed back at them.

So rather than walk away from a group of 4 guys calling me 'fag' or 'cocksucker' I should unload every bit of rage I have on them?

[virgin-burner 1]

dude, what if i always was one of the smaller kids in school`the one that's a bit more chubby than the rest? THAT guy was always a head taller than i was!

sure, i lost my mind, i fucking went raging over him. i could NEVER defeat him otherwise. exagarated!? nah, i dont think so.. usually the teachers pulled him off me, this time it was the other way around.. i never faced consequences..

to all the physical abuse i got, why do you think i get defensive so easily!?
see the first paragraph..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[ryoder 1,381]

Quote

So rather than walk away from a group of 4 guys calling me 'fag' or 'cocksucker' I should unload every bit of rage I have on them?

You need to differentiate insults from assault.
We are talking about assault.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[futuredivot 0]

Great story, a usual.

But...what's a "Disco" Grampa? Was that the type of cell phones you had back then?

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[JohnnyMarko 1]

Quote

Quote

So rather than walk away from a group of 4 guys calling me 'fag' or 'cocksucker' I should unload every bit of rage I have on them?

You need to differentiate insults from assault.
We are talking about assault.

MARK IT ZERO!!!

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

sure, i lost my mind, i fucking went raging over him. i could NEVER defeat him otherwise.

twardo's post really resonated with me with 'measured response' and never wanting to meet their Mr Hyde. Being aware of where he (hyde) is, is the important part and responding as yourself before that has to (or is allowed to) come out.

sorry the matchup was so uneven that you had to meet your "mr. Hyde" - but if that was the measure of response needed, then of course that's the level needed

no one should have to go to that place

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[ryoder 1,381]

Quote

People thinking you're a bit crazy is a good deterrent.

The karate school I attended in my early 20's was in a less-than-desirable part of town,
with a redneck bar next door.
The instructors parked in a tiny lot behind the school, which was only reachable by leaving
via the front door, then going down the adjacent alley to the lot.

One of my instructors, (a small skinny guy), told me this story that happened to him one night:

Class was over, and everyone else had gone home.
He turned out the lights, locked the door and headed down the alley,
with his karate uniform rolled up under his arm.
Three figures appeared in the shadows.
As he saw them, he slowed, and they spread out across the alley,
and continued slowly and deliberately toward him.

"So what did you do then?" I asked.

His response: "I threw my uniform down on the ground, jumped up into the air beating
my chest and screaming at the top of my lungs, and ran straight at them!"

Me: "YOU DID WHAT???" So what happened next?"

Him: "They all ran like hell. I couldn't have caught them if I'd wanted to.
Nobody wants to fuck with a crazy person."

One of my unforgettable lessons at that school.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

I knocked him out then proceeded to pick him up several times and slam him down on a fire hydrant. I got fired (understandably from a liability standpoint)

great story - and being fired is the right thing from more than a liability standpoint. If you 'lost it' for any reason, you shouldn't be in enforcement of any kind, right?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Guest]

Quote

Quote

already taken down.

Some butthurt twat on youtube keeps removing it everytime its posted.

Here is a version with Japanese commentary:

http://vimeo.com/21021823

Taken down 1/2 hour ago

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[david3 0]

Quote

Quote

I knocked him out then proceeded to pick him up several times and slam him down on a fire hydrant. I got fired (understandably from a liability standpoint)

great story - and being fired is the right thing from more than a liability standpoint. If you 'lost it' for any reason, you shouldn't be in enforcement of any kind, right?

Have you ever "lost it"?

[virgin-burner 1]

Quote

Quote

sure, i lost my mind, i fucking went raging over him. i could NEVER defeat him otherwise.

twardo's post really resonated with me with 'measured response' and never wanting to meet their Mr Hyde. Being aware of where he (hyde) is, is the important part and responding as yourself before that has to (or is allowed to) come out.

sorry the matchup was so uneven that you had to meet your "mr. Hyde" - but if that was the measure of response needed, then of course that's the level needed

no one should have to go to that place

yes. and i never went back there again.. i do avoid physical confrontation. also, i have two decades of martial-arts training. i dont really think you'd want me to be your next guy you pick on. i'd fear, it'd would end very badly for you (and me)..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

great story from your instructor. i had a very short, very skinny and VERY dangerous guy teaching me kickboxing. i learned a couple good lessons from him..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Have you ever "lost it"?

once - never again, very ashamed to not have the nerve to address the problem BEFORE my mind got to that point.

But.....

should it really matter in discussions about what is right and what to strive for though? even if a person is unable to achieve the type of person they want to be, what's wrong with putting the ideal out there to strive for? or at least talk about how we wish we could be?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

yes. and i never went back there again.. i do avoid physical confrontation. also, i have two decades of martial-arts training. i dont really think you'd want me to be your next guy you pick on. i'd fear, it'd would end very badly for you (and me)..

i could write the exact same history almost (though I was introverted and skinny, not chubby) - bullies seem to create individuals fascinated with exotic fighting styles.......

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[ryoder 1,381]

Quote

Quote

I knocked him out then proceeded to pick him up several times and slam him down on a fire hydrant. I got fired (understandably from a liability standpoint)

great story - and being fired is the right thing from more than a liability standpoint. If you 'lost it' for any reason, you shouldn't be in enforcement of any kind, right?

Getting stabbed seems like a good reason to lose it from my POV.
There is a legal concept of disparity of force in cases of self defense;
Twardo had only his hands, and the guy not only pulled a knife, but used it.
That is why the charges were dropped.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[ryoder 1,381]

Quote

Quote

I thought the best advice I've heard of a father giving his kid was:

"Don't you ever start a fight!
But if someone starts one with you, I expect you to finish it."

~A lot of similarities between you and I.

Unfortunately, that quote came from someone else's father.
If I'd had a father like that, I wouldn't have needed to learn that the hard way.

Oh, and something else we had in common: braces.
The inside of my cheeks was like hamburger after a school bully punched me
in the face repeatedly in the shower room one day.
I'm still sad that I never tore into that particular SOB.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Getting stabbed seems like a good reason to lose it from my POV.

life threatening situations should generate an increase in control and response - not losing it

I think we have different definitions of 'losing it' (I'm thinking blanking out and doing violent actions with no sense of memory or control of those actions)

You might just mean letting it all out. I have no issue with that if that's what it takes to survive.

Twardo's example he noted he pretty much blanked out and then continued to try killing the other guy after he'd disarmed the guy and eliminated the threat. Therefore - law enforcement, bouncing, security are not good choices. that's all I'm sayin'

I didn't say anything about whether the charges being dropped were right or not. This is about morality, not legality.

Edit: interesting topic. I'm pretty much done blabbing my values out though. thanks all.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[david3 0]

Quote

Quote

Have you ever "lost it"?

once - never again, very ashamed to not have the nerve to address the problem BEFORE my mind got to that point.

But.....

should it really matter in discussions about what is right and what to strive for though? even if a person is unable to achieve the type of person they want to be, what's wrong with putting the ideal out there to strive for? or at least talk about how we wish we could be?

It shouldn’t matter. I don’t think it is an unusual question in this thread though, do you?

I am all for striving to be better. I don’t fault people for falling short. I don’t think they are wrong. I don’t believe you should be ashamed either. Learn from it and strive to be better. We all may fail again but if I’m going to wish, I wish I don’t find myself in a situation to be tested.

Not sure how you got the idea that it is wrong to put the ideal out there.

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

Great story, a usual.

But...what's a "Disco" Grampa? Was that the type of cell phones you had back then?

I still get a chuckle sitting here remembering the time you and I taught a couple of fighter pilots that retreat is the better part of valor.

I was really impressed how heads up you were in that situation, and how well we 'worked' together. Separated the wing-man, I cut off their advance, you cut off their retreat...

Pretty funny seeing a couple of young buck fly-boys suddenly realize they are out gunned, out of position and deep in hostile territory..."Checkmate~this is NOT a drill"


Thanks for havin' my back!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[virgin-burner 1]

Quote

Quote

yes. and i never went back there again.. i do avoid physical confrontation. also, i have two decades of martial-arts training. i dont really think you'd want me to be your next guy you pick on. i'd fear, it'd would end very badly for you (and me)..

i could write the exact same history almost (though I was introverted and skinny, not chubby) - bullies seem to create individuals fascinated with exotic fighting styles.......

do you have a problem with me being chubby!? we can "talk" through that right outside the door!

ANYWAY.. i'm quite a peaceful guy. you could even get away with punching me in the face once when i was being an ass...

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[ryoder 1,381]

Quote

Quote

Getting stabbed seems like a good reason to lose it from my POV.

life threatening situations should generate an increase in control and response - not losing it

I think we have different definitions of 'losing it' (I'm thinking blanking out and doing violent actions with no sense of memory or control of those actions)

You might just mean letting it all out. I have no issue with that if that's what it takes to survive.

Twardo's example he noted he pretty much blanked out and then continued to try killing the other guy after he'd disarmed the guy and eliminated the threat. Therefore - law enforcement, bouncing, security are not good choices. that's all I'm sayin'

I didn't say anything about whether the charges being dropped were right or not. This is about morality, not legality.

Edit: interesting topic. I'm pretty much done blabbing my values out though. thanks all.

My definition of "losing it" is when rage pushes all inhibitions aside,
and you go on the attack with no concern for personal safety.
I've never had an instance of not being aware of what I was doing.
When a bully sees pure rage, there is a possibility they will run,
and you won't even need to make further physical contact.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[futuredivot 0]

Quote

Thanks for havin' my back!

Always-Count on it.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[ryoder 1,381]

Hate to need to ask, but:
Are you guys talking about video games, or real air-combat trainers?

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[futuredivot 0]

Fighter pilots in...and then outside a bar failing to leave a lovely, yet obviously unimpressed, lady alone.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour