Pilot Chute Nightmare

[Psychonaut 0]

What happened to your friend? After you lost him I don't see him, nor you attempting to get back towards him? I just see you flailing like an AFF student. Do you have any idea where he was when you pulling (in place..)?

Stay high pull low

[Ronaldo 0]

There are many threads at DZ.com about this subject but the main consensus seems to be to avoid handles which are heavy and/or attached by a single point. Heavy handles will tend to invert the PC allowing the bridle to float and “dance” above it, finally looping and creating a knot around the PC. A center point attachment will create a snag area around it. By your video it seems like you have a plastic pipe handle attached by a center point (which is exactly where your bridle is wrapped).
I made a pud handle for wingsuit PC to reduce this risk. The pictures show the original wings handle (center point attachment) and my wingsuit handle (sewn through the entire handle width). The handle was made with cordura and EVA foam and is very lightweight (actually much lighter than the original one). You can check with your rigger if can do a similar (well, probably better) handle for you.
Also, it is highly recommended to throw the PC out vigorously to the side so it can reach clean air as quick as possible.
Good job saving yourself, congrats!

Edited to add PC throw tip

Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

[93zx11 0]

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Personally I would have tried to pull the pin with the bridle by hand. At least that way upon cutting away, if that hadn't fixed it, I would be less at risk of a hang up of both main & reserve.

Sounds exactly like what I said.

Good advice, though.

[Sangi 0]

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Thanks for the warning. You should preface all your posts with this.

Good thing I never was one of you to begin with.

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

[liftedtitan 0]

I dont want to see this video had he cutaway.

Moriuntur omnes, sed non omnes vixerunt.

[93zx11 0]

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I dont want to see this video had he cutaway.

That was the most insightful post in this thread.

Bravo.

[liftedtitan 0]

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I dont want to see this video had he cutaway.

That was the most insightful post in this thread.

Bravo.

as was that stroke of genius you just posted you big dope.

I guess its true what they say about you on these forums. total dickhead, trash on everyones posts, then cry like an idiot when you need help.

go jump that crap base rig you just bought.

Moriuntur omnes, sed non omnes vixerunt.

[93zx11 0]

I don't see how my comment was dickhead trash, I was just paying you a compliment.

Check yourself, cuz. It's a very nice baserig, thank you.

[format 0]

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I dont want to see this video had he cutaway.

Before or after deploying reserve, or anyway?

What goes around, comes later.

[Sangi 0]

Oh the joys of dz.com...

What a fucked up site, it makes me sick.

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

[popsjumper 2]

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Oh the joys of dz.com...

What a fucked up site, it makes me sick.

Well, yes. Sometimes me, too. Like when I come across posts like you and liftedtitan are putting up. You CAN elect to go elsewhere, right?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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I dont want to see this video had he cutaway.

Before or after deploying reserve, or anyway?

Well, here's the deal:
You are aware that there are two schools of though on how to handle a PCIT.
a) cutaway, deploy reserve
b) deploy reserve

Both have pros and cons.

Had he cutaway first in this situation, the main would have gone nowhere and the PCIT would have still been in place. So, what's next? Reserve deployment.

In this particular instance, the reserve PC got entangled with the main PC and that's what prevented the reserve from immediately deploying (possibly cleanly) AND what pulled out the main (the main inflated first).

So now what do we have?
We have an inflated main and an entangled reserve.

What saved his butt was the fact that the main was still connected. Had he cutaway, the main would not have been there to save his butt and the reserve would have been entangled in that cutaway main (unless some righteous miracle happened to disentangle the reserve and allowed a good reserve opening)

In my way of thinking, if both risers are still attached, you have a chance, as small as it may be, to pull the entangled chute out of one that's inflated. If you cutaway first, and your risers leave you, you will not have that one additional option.

As far as two out, I'll take that any day over an entanglement. Besides, if the reserve comes out cleanly, you can then cutaway the main and swipe the risers off of you before it inflates.

YMMV and if you have different ideas, it's open to discussion.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Arvoitus 1]

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I dont want to see this video had he cutaway.

Before or after deploying reserve, or anyway?

Well, here's the deal:
You are aware that there are two schools of though on how to handle a PCIT.
a) cutaway, deploy reserve
b) deploy reserve

Both have pros and cons.

Had he cutaway first in this situation, the main would have gone nowhere and the PCIT would have still been in place. So, what's next? Reserve deployment.

In this particular instance, the reserve PC got entangled with the main PC and that's what prevented the reserve from immediately deploying (possibly cleanly) AND what pulled out the main (the main inflated first).

So now what do we have?
We have an inflated main and an entangled reserve.

What saved his butt was the fact that the main was still connected. Had he cutaway, the main would not have been there to save his butt and the reserve would have been entangled in that cutaway main (unless some righteous miracle happened to disentangle the reserve and allowed a good reserve opening)

In my way of thinking, if both risers are still attached, you have a chance, as small as it may be, to pull the entangled chute out of one that's inflated. If you cutaway first, and your risers leave you, you will not have that one additional option.

As far as two out, I'll take that any day over an entanglement. Besides, if the reserve comes out cleanly, you can then cutaway the main and swipe the risers off of you before it inflates.

YMMV and if you have different ideas, it's open to discussion.

If the main had been cutway would it have come out of the d-bag? Since the risers aren't connected anywhere would the riser covers generated enough resistance to break the lines from the stows?

I haven't tried it but my guess is that they wouldn't be enough. Had the main been cutway the lines wouldn't have been unstowed and likely the reserve wouldn't have entangled with the main lines and would've inflated.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[sundevil777 93]

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If the main had been cutway would it have come out of the d-bag? Since the risers aren't connected anywhere would the riser covers generated enough resistance to break the lines from the stows?

I haven't tried it but my guess is that they wouldn't be enough. Had the main been cutway the lines wouldn't have been unstowed and likely the reserve wouldn't have entangled with the main lines and would've inflated.

Perhaps you're thinking that entanglement in a limited manner.

It is not just the main lines that are a concern. The entanglement can take the form of the any part of the main, from the PC, bridle, d-bag, whatever length of lines gets unstowed, risers, and the RSL shackle managing to get caught in the lines of the reserve. This can prevent the reserve slider from coming down or the reserve slider can be pulled back up after a full reserve deployment by a departing main.

Of course it might have all cleared the deploying reserve, that is why there is disagreement on the proper procedure, however some do not want to acknowledge the possibility that the cutaway main can do harm.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Arvoitus 1]

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Perhaps you're thinking that entanglement in a limited manner.

It is not just the main lines that are a concern. The entanglement can take the form of the any part of the main, from the PC, bridle, d-bag, whatever length of lines gets unstowed, risers, and the RSL shackle managing to get caught in the lines of the reserve. This can prevent the reserve slider from coming down or the reserve slider can be pulled back up after a full reserve deployment by a departing main.

Yes obviously it can entangled with just about anything. I was mainly thinking about this specific scenario. And actually in this case there isn't any entanglement, the reserve d-bag is lodged in the line twist of the main canopy. (or maybe that can be called entanglement I don't know)

So if the main lines wouldn't have become unstowed and the main had cleared of the jumper then likely (in my opinion, in this case) the reserve would have inflated.

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Of course it might have all cleared the deploying reserve, that is why there is disagreement on the proper procedure, however some do not want to acknowledge the possibility that the cutaway main can do harm.

I'm not saying it can't. It can work either way or it can fail either way anyway. Everybody has to decide, for themselves, how to act in that scenario should they ever find themselves in it.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[stayhigh 2]

This happenes from time to time.
I thought pull out system eliminates this type of mal, until my friend with pull out had same mal which lead to cut away
With pc out it is important to cut away first then pull reserve.

I've seen two main reserve entanglement to this type of mal, and both went straight for silver

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[Melissa126 0]

Newbie question -- how would this PC had to have been packed for this to happen? I've seen and been taught about 20 different ways to pack a PC... all ensure that the bridle never 'wraps' around it. I read the posts that said "sloppy packing" but what does this entail for have this happen?

[liftedtitan 0]

Brian Germain has a nice video on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axCeYlY_6io

Moriuntur omnes, sed non omnes vixerunt.

[liftedtitan 0]

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This happenes from time to time.
I thought pull out system eliminates this type of mal, until my friend with pull out had same mal which lead to cut away
With pc out it is important to cut away first then pull reserve.

I've seen two main reserve entanglement to this type of mal, and both went straight for silver

with a pilot chute in tow, i never understood why one would cutaway then pull reserve. with a pillt chut in tow, the main is stuck in the bag, nothing to cutaway. I feel this guy did the right thing, PIT dump reserve and HOPE it clears. If not (like in this situation) at least you have 2 chances of getting fabric over your head.

let it be said, ask an isntructor! but had this guy chopped before going to reserve, there is a good chance he would have died (his main is what eventually opened)

Moriuntur omnes, sed non omnes vixerunt.

[Melissa126 0]

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Brian Germain has a nice video on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axCeYlY_6io

Thank you! That was extremely informative... I'll be sure to pass this along.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Jumping with camera at #138? What do you expect?

So , you suggest that my having a camera on the helmet directly caused the PC entanglement ? Not wishing to troll or start flaming here btw. I respect your opinion (as you have more jumps than me), and I've read all the threads regarding camera flying, yet I was not able to find a single scenario in which a camera would cause PC inflation problems or PC-bridle entanglement. The only camera related problem I can think of is bridle wrapping round the camera, but since this was not the case...

It is always a chain of event. That could be the first chain. You should not have any business with camera yet. Which part of the youtube movies are you really proud? Try not to take it personal, but you fly like shit and land like crap. Eventually you got lucky to survive that jump. And it was just luck. Why do you carry a camera? Because you can not be a cool freeflyer without it? I wish cameras would be as heavy and as expensive as they use to be, so guys like you would have more common sense leave them alone before you are ready for that!

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Personally I would have tried to pull the pin with the bridle by hand. At least that way upon cutting away, if that hadn't fixed it, I would be less at risk of a hang up of both main & reserve.

Agreed. Actually, I did attempt to do that, but was not able to catch the bridle behind my back. Think I'll train for this scenario on the ground just in case I get another PC in tow.

I do not criticize you action in the mal. I would go for the very same path. It would make no sense. You got some seconds to decide and you did the right thing at least on your level. I do not believe in mid-air rigging either. You landing with your reserve is a shame anyway.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Oh the joys of dz.com...

What a fucked up site, it makes me sick.

Well, yes. Sometimes me, too. Like when I come across posts like you and liftedtitan are putting up. You CAN elect to go elsewhere, right?

Just ignore him, a hawk is not hunting for flies or frogs.
He would be buzzing around as long he gets any attention....

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Newbie question -- how would this PC had to have been packed for this to happen? I've seen and been taught about 20 different ways to pack a PC... all ensure that the bridle never 'wraps' around it. I read the posts that said "sloppy packing" but what does this entail for have this happen?

I guess the common thing is keep the bridle inside.
I do follow Brian Germain's way anyway. Its fast and neat.

[castle_bravo 0]

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That could be the first chain. You should not have any business with camera yet.

Yes, it could have been the 1st link(in a chain of events)... but it wasn't. Actually, had it not been for the camera we (or at least me) would have missed this valuable (at least for me)lesson. As only when I saw the video, did I actually realize what had actually transpired. Up until then, I thought I didn't cock the main PC or it just hesitated in the burble above me.

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Which part of the youtube movies are you really proud?

Who said I was proud of anything ? I only posted this to receive some thoughts regarding possible causes of the main PC mal (bad packing, bad throw, bad luck, etc.) and to warn against rushed packing in general, thus I believe I am intentionally setting myself a a BAD example here...

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you fly like shit and land like crap.

Thanks, but this isn't really news. Also, I land ok in normal situations. As for my freefly - well, it sucks.

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You landing with your reserve is a shame anyway.

Actually, I landed my main , not my reserve...

[petejones45 0]

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Jumping with camera at #138? What do you expect?

The camera had nothing to do with that

Look out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES!