JohnMitchell 14 #101 April 6, 2011 I saw your earlier post about not needing any credit rating to buy a home. Is that really true? I paid cash for everything until I was in my mid-twenties. I finally took out a cash guaranteed loan for a used vehicle just to establish some kind of credit rating (paid it off 6 months later, early of course.But these days banks, insurance companies, landlords, organizations issuing security clearances and possibly soon employers look at your credit rating to determine your eligibility. Having a good credit rating is almost de riguer in our modern society. Wouldn't you agree? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #102 April 6, 2011 Quote possibly soon employers Employers are already doing it. I'm pretty sure I had to consent to a credit check for my current job. I had to pee in a cup, too, but that's another story altogether. "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #103 April 6, 2011 I couldn't agree with you more about owning "stuff". We all like having our toys, but at a certain point, your possessions start to own you. You know we have the big house that used to have the 4 kids, and our hobbies ranged from beer making, reloading, wood working, camping, jumping, etc. I'm really taking a hard look at all this stuff and paring it down as much as I can. DZ.com's Classifieds really helped my clean out my gear box a lot last winter. Our annual neighborhood garage sale sent a lot of my old stuff packing. Looking forward to Ebay and Craig's list helping with the rest. V and I would much rather collect memories. A trip to Italy, a week in Lost Prairie is money much better spent than on things you have to store and dust for the rest of your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #104 April 6, 2011 Quote V and I would much rather collect memories. A trip to Italy, a week in Lost Prairie is money much better spent than on things you have to store and dust for the rest of your life. I must confess did just buy a shiny new G2 helmet, though, even though I had a perfectly-functioning full-face helmet already. But, that's the nice thing about living within your means ... sometimes you can indulge a "want" and get a new toy even if it's not strictly necessary. (Also just ordered an Optimum Reserve - also not strictly necessary but will be a nice upgrade from my Raven II and will make my rig a little less of a brick)."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #105 April 6, 2011 Quote Quote possibly soon employers Employers are already doing it. I'm pretty sure I had to consent to a credit check for my current job. I had to pee in a cup, too, but that's another story altogether. Not to mention the "National Agency Check with Local Agency Check and Credit Check" (NACLC) they do for security clearances."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #106 April 6, 2011 Quote (Also just ordered an Optimum Reserve - also not strictly necessary but will be a nice upgrade from my Raven II and will make my rig a little less of a brick). And now you'll have a nice RavenII to sell in the classifieds.Like I posted earlier, don't borrow money for toys. But, of course, good skydiving equipment is not a toy, but a necessity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #107 April 6, 2011 Quote And now you'll have a nice RavenII to sell in the classifieds. Or to hang onto for when I turn my current rig into a backup rig and finally buy one that was built for me. Besides, the amount of cash I could get for a Raven II makes it hardly worth the hassle to sell."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #108 April 6, 2011 Quote Quote And now you'll have a nice RavenII to sell in the classifieds. Or to hang onto for when I turn my current rig into a backup rig and finally buy one that was built for me. Besides, the amount of cash I could get for a Raven II makes it hardly worth the hassle to sell. You could give it to me..."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
missbrz 0 #109 April 6, 2011 Quote Quote Quote And now you'll have a nice RavenII to sell in the classifieds. Or to hang onto for when I turn my current rig into a backup rig and finally buy one that was built for me. Besides, the amount of cash I could get for a Raven II makes it hardly worth the hassle to sell. You could give it to me... do what I'm doing and trade him the old canopy for rigging services Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #110 April 6, 2011 Quote do what I'm doing and trade him the old canopy for rigging services Ya do realise she lives no where close to Florida right?"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
missbrz 0 #111 April 6, 2011 Quote Quote do what I'm doing and trade him the old canopy for rigging services Ya do realise she lives no where close to Florida right? You only need a reserve repack every 180 days Vacay to Florida! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #112 April 6, 2011 Quote You could give it to me... I've got plenty of closet space to store it, not to worry. And a rigger who already makes me feel guilty by refusing to charge me for the little stuff he does for me beyond straight repacks."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #113 April 6, 2011 Quote I've got plenty of closet space to store it, not to worry. And a rigger who already makes me feel guilty by refusing to charge me for the little stuff he does for me beyond straight repacks. We need more customers like you. Ya hear that Jo??"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
missbrz 0 #114 April 6, 2011 Quote Quote I've got plenty of closet space to store it, not to worry. And a rigger who already makes me feel guilty by refusing to charge me for the little stuff he does for me beyond straight repacks. We need more customers like you. Ya hear that Jo?? Geez, I bought you dinner Stay out & drink for once & I'll buy you a beer. You already missed my case for first time jumping @ zhills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #115 April 6, 2011 Quote Quote possibly soon employers Employers are already doing it. I'm pretty sure I had to consent to a credit check for my current job. I had to pee in a cup, too, but that's another story altogether. Ditto... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #116 April 6, 2011 I agree with most of your debt free ideas... I've got goals of being totally debt free (including the house) by 50. However, if one is in a position to get a loan for less interest than their money is making in the market (especially once you factor in that the sale profits are taxable income) I think they're better off. I think the key is not be underwater on anything. Don't owe more on an item than it's worth or owe more in credit cards/other unsecured loans than you have. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squirrel 0 #117 April 6, 2011 Quote I saw your earlier post about not needing any credit rating to buy a home. Is that really true? I paid cash for everything until I was in my mid-twenties. I finally took out a cash guaranteed loan for a used vehicle just to establish some kind of credit rating (paid it off 6 months later, early of course.But these days banks, insurance companies, landlords, organizations issuing security clearances and possibly soon employers look at your credit rating to determine your eligibility. Having a good credit rating is almost de riguer in our modern society. Wouldn't you agree? yes, it is true. i would call churchill mortgage. but, according to their web page, it has gotten more difficult, but can still be done. it seems that the reason it has become more difficult is because of all the defaults, from people that had credit scores....go figure. here is the web page about no credit score mortgages. http://www.churchillmortgage.com/info/no-credit-score.aspx i would agree that if you are going to have a credit score, yes, i have one, near 800, that you either make sure it is very very good, or zero. not having one at all is more easy to explain than having a poor one, agreed? not sure i would ever want to work for a employer who is going to run my credit score, but, i can't say for sure that it would not happen, the future is yet to be determined. hopefully, if i continue on my current plan, i will continue to be able to choose whom i do business with. ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squirrel 0 #118 April 6, 2011 Quote However, if one is in a position to get a loan for less interest than their money is making in the market (especially once you factor in that the sale profits are taxable income) I think they're better off. are you saying you would borrow money to make a few points in the market? risky. personally, i would not do it. analyzing risk of the open market is very very ....well, risky. ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #119 April 6, 2011 Quote Quote However, if one is in a position to get a loan for less interest than their money is making in the market (especially once you factor in that the sale profits are taxable income) I think they're better off. are you saying you would borrow money to make a few points in the market? risky. personally, i would not do it. analyzing risk of the open market is very very ....well, risky. No. I'm not saying taking a loan to put money into the market. I'm saying taking a loan instead of taking money already in the market out. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squirrel 0 #120 April 6, 2011 Quote Quote Quote However, if one is in a position to get a loan for less interest than their money is making in the market (especially once you factor in that the sale profits are taxable income) I think they're better off. are you saying you would borrow money to make a few points in the market? risky. personally, i would not do it. analyzing risk of the open market is very very ....well, risky. No. I'm not saying taking a loan to put money into the market. I'm saying taking a loan instead of taking money already in the market out. well. hmm. i would ask you to ask yourself this question. would you borrow money against your house to invest in the market? essentially, that is what you are doing. listening to Dave's show, he gets this question all the time...like, "if i owe 125K on my house, and i have 125K in the market, BEYOND my emergency fund, 401ks, or Roths, 3 to 6 months emergecy fund, and i am saving 15% of my income towards retirement. Should i pay off the house?" his answer is yes, today, by end of day. but never borrow against a 401k. its laid out in his "baby steps" 4 through 6. once the you have no debt, except the house, saving 15%, and 3 to 6 months of expenses in the bank...you put the rest towards the house, to pay of early. this is explained better here... http://www.daveramsey.com/new/baby-steps/let me know what you think. ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #121 April 6, 2011 Quote Quote "Yeah! 3 bedroom/2 bath ranch homes in my neighborhood are now listing with price tags of only $1.3M price tags and selling for just $1.1M." Dude, I know the cost of real estate. I grew up in 94022. Sure I would like to live there, but Prop 13 would not apply to me, and I refuse to pay taxes on a million dollar "ranch" Yes, there are always the upper and the lower ends of the market. I understand taxes, and cost of owning vs. renting. If you can insure that you will have a passive income, then rent till you die. But you better get busy investing, building a business, or something to pay that rent.. when you are unable to work anymore. I'm putting about $20K a year into a diverse portfolio because I'd like to maintain my lifestyle even if 1. Economic problems mean I'm still supporting the next generation of my family so they can have an American middle-class lifestyle 2. I'm forced to retire early or save less due to disability or younger/foreign workers are too much cheaper 3. Government entitlements aren't there to reduce my expenses in retirement because qualification has been made need-based to save money. 4. The amount of money I can safely draw is reduced due to market problems, government interest rate manipulation, etc. Retiring at 60 like my parents and grandparents did wouldn't be bad although I'm not counting on it. Quote Quote "While real estate prices have dropped, there are still many places where the cost to "own" (rent most of the money from the bank) is over double what it costs to rent a comparable property in the same neighborhood and school district." True, but I would submit that if you don't get in now, you never will. When I moved to Washington state I bought into the hype and was wrong. Sold at the peak six months later for a $10K loss and since then the Case-Shiller index tracking resales of individual homes has dropped 26%. Talked to a couple last weekend which passed on a $2M home in the last year which has since dropped into the low $1M range. If the banks can't profit from writing ever larger loans regardless of risk home prices must be in line with peoples' salary and wealth. $120K-$150K median household incomes don't support million plus home prices. Start-up options might. Looking at it from a supply/demand perspective housing supply should be increasing as baby boomers retire to assisted living communities and demand decreasing at high prices as people entering the work-force have less available to spend on housing due to lower starting salaries and more student loan debt to service. Quote Quote oh, and buy the way. not sure how old you are, but fully funding a Roth IRA for 40 years will give you upwards of a million dollars. From which you might be able to safely draw $40K/year in retirement income if you plan on living a while. Yeah, well I could go out and do what most Americans do, and get a car on credit and not plan for retirement, and hope the government or my kids will take care of me, but I guess I am just different. You mis-understand. I'm suggesting that the $5K ($6K for folks 50+) most people are allowed to put into a Roth IRA is too little. Assuming everything goes well and you can safely draw $40K a year - The average nursing home costs $70,000 a year for a private room. Before you get to that point you still have health insurance which can run a thousand a month for an older couple and is increasing substantially faster than inflation, property taxes for a couple hundred, insurance for a couple hundred including liability coverage to protect your nest egg, etc. Quote Good luck with your plan. Let me guess, you think we should all go out and buy gold. I'm fond of debt-free living, small homes, decade plus old cars, and diverse mutual funds, but should also be investing in Roth IRA conversions to hedge my bets on taxes in retirement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CarrieByTheSea 0 #122 April 6, 2011 Quote I finally took out a cash guaranteed loan for a used vehicle just to establish some kind of credit rating (paid it off 6 months later, early of course.) As a favor for a family friend, I did everything but pay the final negotiated bills to clean up his (very bad) credit* and the only thing left after that was a credit card (paid in full each month) that he was merely an additional (not primary) cardholder on. This was probably eight years ago, and that cc is still the only thing on his credit. His lowest score now is a 780. When I worked as a mortgage consultant to high priority clients of the firm, I routinely pulled credit of wealthy retirees who had nothing left to show on their reports. While, occasionaly this would produce a "0" score, most of the time all three of their scores would be in the 800s. Great overall advice from you, John, to the jaded in this thread. I hope they listen. *And I only did the favor because when said friend received a small inheritance, he asked me if there was any way it would be enough to make him debt free--despite his good smarts, his bad credit and lack of discipline in this particular area had become a real problem for him later in life. He wanted to give me the money, but I made him hold on to it until I was done and the final amounts/bills were received and ready to send off. It took a couple months before all was complete (and barely a dollar below his inherited amount, which was a feat in itself) and the final bills were received. I then gave him the bills to write the checks. And he did. "Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be." ~ Temple Grandin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #123 April 6, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote However, if one is in a position to get a loan for less interest than their money is making in the market (especially once you factor in that the sale profits are taxable income) I think they're better off. are you saying you would borrow money to make a few points in the market? risky. personally, i would not do it. analyzing risk of the open market is very very ....well, risky. No. I'm not saying taking a loan to put money into the market. I'm saying taking a loan instead of taking money already in the market out. well. hmm. i would ask you to ask yourself this question. would you borrow money against your house to invest in the market? essentially, that is what you are doing. listening to Dave's show, he gets this question all the time...like, "if i owe 125K on my house, and i have 125K in the market, BEYOND my emergency fund, 401ks, or Roths, 3 to 6 months emergecy fund, and i am saving 15% of my income towards retirement. Should i pay off the house?" his answer is yes, today, by end of day. but never borrow against a 401k. its laid out in his "baby steps" 4 through 6. once the you have no debt, except the house, saving 15%, and 3 to 6 months of expenses in the bank...you put the rest towards the house, to pay of early. this is explained better here... http://www.daveramsey.com/new/baby-steps/let me know what you think. Telling somone to take all their excess $$$ out of the market at a time like this is almost negligent. Most in are way down right now but it's only an on paper loss, that is unless they sell and not reinvest.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squirrel 0 #124 April 6, 2011 you are far beyond what Dave Ramsey is all about. most people do not have a good savings plan at all, so his plan is all about them getting to a great starting point, and then going further. once you have your wealth building plan in place and are taking action...sure, you can, and will go beyond the basic steps. Ramsey is kind of like the "get out of debt for dummies" if more people had a rock solid plan in place, when the hard times hit, and they do, the people would be ok. me for example, i was spec building, making 100k per home, i put alot of cash away, alot, becuase i knew that my "job" at that level was temporary. my building business here disappeared...and it took us over a year to reorganize and start working selling REO properties. did i loose my home, or anything, no, because of no debt, emergency funds, we are ok. but sadly many people get a credit card, or a home equity loan, and a year later find themselves so upside down they loose it all. i think this recession is a wake up call, and i hope many people learn from it. ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hokierower 0 #125 April 6, 2011 A little off topic here, but what do you guys consider to be debt? -Student loans? - Under a certain amount I wouldn't consider these to be debt because of the low interest rate. -Car/Motorcycle loans? - I would say that these are debt, but in my case I'm 3k in front of my bike so even if I sold it today I'd come out of it with money in my pocket. -Credit Cards? - obviously, unless it's an AMEX that is required to be paid off at the end of the month or a card that is regularly paid off. -House mortgage? - Most people make an exception for this one. A lot of people here are saying "I'm debt free...except for the mortgage on my house/property/etc. -Random loans? - Yes. 100% debt here. Again, 23yrs old fresh out of school so my viewpoint is a little skewed. I put 10% of my paycheck into the 401k, get matched another 4%. I have no dependents, my GF and I are in a long-distance relationship due to work/grad-school, therefore I live alone. My workday is 7am to 5pm at a minimum, sometimes to 6 or 7pm depending on the jobsite and workload. I splurged as soon as I got my first couple of paychecks but now I'm through spending the big bucks (except for this whole skydiving thing...didn't see this one coming when I did my budgeting at the beginning of the year). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
