0
CSpenceFLY

What guys think about modesty

Recommended Posts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n-NWbd3pis&sns=fb

Having a debate with a girl I went to school with about this clip. Her view is that some girls dress trashy because of something that happened in their early life and they should listen to this and change their ways.

While I agree somewhat with why some women act trashy, I think the clip says more about the guys writing the letters in that they all sound like they need some therapy and should be on the registered sex offender list. I think she picked a poor example to get her point across.

I know where this will probably end up but try to keep it here in the bonfire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I know where this will probably end up but try to keep it here in the bonfire.



Good luck with that. :P

For the people that put together that clip, I'd like to suggest they consider that there are societies that believe they have "solved" this "problem" by forcing women to dress a certain way in mixed company. Perhaps they should move there.

Quote

Her view is that some girls dress trashy because of something that happened in their early life and they should listen to this and change their ways.



Your friend's attitude makes me sad. Why a woman (or girl) chooses to dress "trashy" isn't the important part; the important part is the attitude inherent in this video that borders on the "she dressed slutty, she asked for it" attitude that is employed by those who assault and rape (and, sadly, often by those who prosecute them).
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Holy crap, what a load of bollocks...

Men: keep it in your pants unless otherwise instructed.
Women: expect that men will eye you up if you let it all hang out.

For everyone who uses clothing (or lack thereof) as an excuse for violence, aggression, abuse (verbal or otherwise): get some fucking help.
"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I didn't make it more than a minute or two into it, but it sounds like the speaker, who every day prays for help battling his temptation, lusts, unclean thoughts, etc. is a misguided schmuck trying to fight against nature. Let me say there is nothing wrong with good old lust, pleasure and desires. It's what makes life worth living. B|

Once again someone wants to use religion to control others to fix their problems. :S

I didn't get to the violence and aggression part (I need to get ready for work) but it sounds like more of the old "blame the victim" crap that gets pedaled out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+100000!!!

Women are attractive; that's a good thing! Men like attractive things; that's also a good thing!

Can we just all have more sex and relax a little??! Sheesh! :D:D
"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

+100000!!!
Women are attractive; that's a good thing! Men like attractive things; that's also a good thing!

Can we just all have more sex and relax a little??! Sheesh! :D:D


I like this girl!

I can't watch the video at work, but can we maybe turn this into a sport? Any one who wants to tell any one how to dress or act should be picked up thrown into a ship and sent off to some Island to live a long happy life telling others what they can and can't do...
Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Holy crap, what a load of bollocks...

Men: keep it in your pants unless otherwise instructed.
Women: expect that men will eye you up if you let it all hang out.

For everyone who uses clothing (or lack thereof) as an excuse for violence, aggression, abuse (verbal or otherwise): get some fucking help.



Quote


Your friend's attitude makes me sad. Why a woman (or girl) chooses to dress "trashy" isn't the important part; the important part is the attitude inherent in this video that borders on the "she dressed slutty, she asked for it" attitude that is employed by those who assault and rape (and, sadly, often by those who prosecute them).



You two dumbasses completely missed the point of the video.

Its not about the dude having urges to rape all wimminz who dressy slutty.

Its about a religious persons difficulties from keeping himself from committing 'sin' because women dress provocatively and therefore failing in the eyes of his god.

Its kind of sad that I need to, as an atheist, explain something so obvious.
Your rights end where my feelings begin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

You two dumbasses completely missed the point of the video.

Its not about the dude having urges to rape all wimminz who dressy slutty.

Its about a religious persons difficulties from keeping himself from committing 'sin' because women dress provocatively and therefore failing in the eyes of his god.

Its kind of sad that I need to, as an atheist, explain something so obvious.




Did you listen to the video??? The narrator went on and on and on and on about how men have (aggressive) impulses and urges and how WOMEN SHOULD DRESS APPROPRIATELY to deal with this problem. That tells me he blames women for "taunting" men. And completely makes the man blameless because he is dealing with "urges". It pretty blatantly *suggests* the woman is at fault for whatever happens to her as a result of *her* behaviour.

I don't think I missed the point at all. I think the point is stupid.
"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just tuned out after the PA. I figure if that's the opening salvo of his argument there's not much else worth reading. :D
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I just tuned out after the PA. I figure if that's the opening salvo of his argument there's not much else worth reading. :D




Well, I forced myself to listen to the whole stupid argument (which I doubt Airvoitus did)... The letter from the student "struggling" to "keep his faith" is merely to illustrate the narrator's point that women should cover up so that men can keep their urges under control. It makes the woman "responsible" for "provoking" men. It's bollocks.

Like I said: men are responsible for keeping it in their pants. Women who dress trashy should expect to be looked at. And anything beyond that (aggression, violence, etc. is NOT her fault).

Like the SLUTWALK article in another thread - it focuses on how the victim should dress in order to "not get raped" instead of focusing on the important bit: "do not rape." In this case, rape is not mentioned, but that is very much implied..

"Help us men keep our urges under control" - bollocks, bollocks, bollocks.
"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote



Its about a religious persons difficulties from keeping himself from committing 'sin' because women dress provocatively and therefore failing in the eyes of his god.



If a person chooses to spend their life fighting their own nature and
convincing themselves that experiencing physical pleasure is sinful,
well I dont get it, but more power to them.

If they go further and start to require others to make their silly journey
less difficult, well, too bad for them.

Choosing a difficult path is just fine until you start blaming others for the fact that its difficult.
__

My mighty steed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n-NWbd3pis&sns=fb

Having a debate with a girl I went to school with about this clip. Her view is that some girls dress trashy because of something that happened in their early life and they should listen to this and change their ways.

While I agree somewhat with why some women act trashy, I think the clip says more about the guys writing the letters in that they all sound like they need some therapy and should be on the registered sex offender list. I think she picked a poor example to get her point across.

I know where this will probably end up but try to keep it here in the bonfire.



EEEEESHHHH

I say unto all the bretheren out there.....GROW THE FUCK UP!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Quote



Its about a religious persons difficulties from keeping himself from committing 'sin' because women dress provocatively and therefore failing in the eyes of his god.



If a person chooses to spend their life fighting their own nature and
convincing themselves that experiencing physical pleasure is sinful,
well I dont get it, but more power to them.

If they go further and start to require others to make their silly journey
less difficult, well, too bad for them.

Choosing a difficult path is just fine until you start blaming others for the fact that its difficult.




YES! THANK YOU!
"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

You two dumbasses completely missed the point of the video.

Its not about the dude having urges to rape all wimminz who dressy slutty.

Its about a religious persons difficulties from keeping himself from committing 'sin' because women dress provocatively and therefore failing in the eyes of his god.

Its kind of sad that I need to, as an atheist, explain something so obvious.




Did you listen to the video??? The narrator went on and on and on and on about how men have (aggressive) impulses and urges and how WOMEN SHOULD DRESS APPROPRIATELY to deal with this problem. That tells me he blames women for "taunting" men. And completely makes the man blameless because he is dealing with "urges". It pretty blatantly *suggests* the woman is at fault for whatever happens to her as a result of *her* behaviour.

I don't think I missed the point at all. I think the point is stupid.



I had to re-listen to it to make sure we've been watching the same video. Then I realized that your comments are a combination of two things:

a) you viewing the world through your rose colored glasses (feminist indoctrination)
b) you being woman, unable to understand what it is like to be a man

His basic point is that all men want to fuck all the time. For most thats not a problem but him being a catholic with some fairly strict ideas about sexuality, it is a problem since him fucking every chick would make him a failure in the eyes of his god. Therefore women dressing provocatively is like waving a bottle of scotch in front an 'ex'-drunk. Its unethical behavior.

The only part about aggression was the bit:

"The thing that women do not seem to fully grasp is that the temptation towards lust does not stop for us as men. It is continual, it is aggressive, it does all it can to lead men down to death."

Where you completely, again, misunderstood what he is saying due to the words he is using and the mind associations these words cause due to the aforementioned reason a).

He is not talking about sexual aggression.

He is saying that the urge to fuck everything that moves, is an aggressive thought, a though that is invasive and something he cannot escape. Which is probably very problematic if you see promiscuous behavior as sinful, lustful, bad behavior.
Your rights end where my feelings begin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Quote



Its about a religious persons difficulties from keeping himself from committing 'sin' because women dress provocatively and therefore failing in the eyes of his god.



If a person chooses to spend their life fighting their own nature and
convincing themselves that experiencing physical pleasure is sinful,
well I dont get it, but more power to them.

If they go further and start to require others to make their silly journey
less difficult, well, too bad for them.

Choosing a difficult path is just fine until you start blaming others for the fact that its difficult.



Did you listen to the video?

Its not directed to secular folks.

Its directed to religious/catholic women. Other people who have chosen his way of life.
Your rights end where my feelings begin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


Did you listen to the video?

Its not directed to secular folks.

Its directed to religious/catholic women. Other people who have chosen his way of life.



I did. and I completely get who its directed towards.

Just because I think its silly doesn't mean I didn't understand it :)
__

My mighty steed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I had to re-listen to it to make sure we've been watching the same video. Then I realized that your comments are a combination of two things:

a) you viewing the world through your rose colored glasses (feminist indoctrination)
b) you being woman, unable to understand what it is like to be a man

His basic point is that all men want to fuck all the time. For most thats not a problem but him being a catholic with some fairly strict ideas about sexuality, it is a problem since him fucking every chick would make him a failure in the eyes of his god. Therefore women dressing provocatively is like waving a bottle of scotch in front an 'ex'-drunk. Its unethical behavior.

The only part about aggression was the bit:

"The thing that women do not seem to fully grasp is that the temptation towards lust does not stop for us as men. It is continual, it is aggressive, it does all it can to lead men down to death."

Where you completely, again, misunderstood what he is saying due to the words he is using and the mind associations these words cause due to the aforementioned reason a).

He is not talking about sexual aggression.

He is saying that the urge to fuck everything that moves, is an aggressive thought, a though that is invasive and something he cannot escape. Which is probably very problematic if you see promiscuous behavior as sinful, lustful, bad behavior.




AH-HA! I finally agree with MOST of what you wrote.

The main difference is that there very much is an undertone of "be careful - if you only knew"... In my mind, the worst that could happen isn't just SEX - that's obvious. I think it's continuously hinted that women are provoking men. And call it feminist bullshit all you want - it is *exactly* the same kind of rhetoric that has been used for AGES to justify all kinds of crap and put the blame on women.

I'm not keen to drag this into SC, so I will refrain from commenting on how religion treats women, forever blaming her for all kinds of sins...

OBVIOUSLY I don't know what it's like to be a man... And OBVIOUSLY you don't understand what it's like to be a woman, either. This kind of bullshit blame-the-women annoys me.
"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

I had to re-listen to it to make sure we've been watching the same video. Then I realized that your comments are a combination of two things:

a) you viewing the world through your rose colored glasses (feminist indoctrination)
b) you being woman, unable to understand what it is like to be a man

His basic point is that all men want to fuck all the time. For most thats not a problem but him being a catholic with some fairly strict ideas about sexuality, it is a problem since him fucking every chick would make him a failure in the eyes of his god. Therefore women dressing provocatively is like waving a bottle of scotch in front an 'ex'-drunk. Its unethical behavior.

The only part about aggression was the bit:

"The thing that women do not seem to fully grasp is that the temptation towards lust does not stop for us as men. It is continual, it is aggressive, it does all it can to lead men down to death."

Where you completely, again, misunderstood what he is saying due to the words he is using and the mind associations these words cause due to the aforementioned reason a).

He is not talking about sexual aggression.

He is saying that the urge to fuck everything that moves, is an aggressive thought, a though that is invasive and something he cannot escape. Which is probably very problematic if you see promiscuous behavior as sinful, lustful, bad behavior.




AH-HA! I finally agree with MOST of what you wrote.

The main difference is that there very much is an undertone of "be careful - if you only knew"... In my mind, the worst that could happen isn't just SEX - that's obvious. I think it's continuously hinted that women are provoking men. And call it feminist bullshit all you want - it is *exactly* the same kind of rhetoric that has been used for AGES to justify all kinds of crap and put the blame on women.

I'm not keen to drag this into SC, so I will refrain from commenting on how religion treats women, forever blaming her for all kinds of sins...

OBVIOUSLY I don't know what it's like to be a man... And OBVIOUSLY you don't understand what it's like to be a woman, either. This kind of bullshit blame-the-women annoys me.



You say its blaming, I say its taunting.

The way I hear it, he is saying that men have the sinful, lustful ideas in their heads that they have to deal with. And women can either make mens life easier or harder with their behavior. He is simply asking for some understanding and help with his struggles against his natural urges.
Your rights end where my feelings begin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

You say its blaming, I say its taunting.

The way I hear it, he is saying that men have the sinful, lustful ideas in their heads that they have to deal with. And women can either make mens life easier or harder with their behavior. He is simply asking for some understanding and help with his struggles against his natural urges.



Well, then I guess the only thing I think we disagree on is how literally we are to take the argument. Literally speaking, that is all he is saying, yes.

However, I believe (it is only an opinion) that it goes deeper.

So yes. Blame vs. taunt. We can't be sure of the dude's intent, and we can read further into it or not. I think even in it's most simplistic form, it's a very fine (and dangerous) line... (Dangerous because it will piss off a lot of angry feminists!! ;))
"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

You say its blaming, I say its taunting.

The way I hear it, he is saying that men have the sinful, lustful ideas in their heads that they have to deal with. And women can either make mens life easier or harder with their behavior. He is simply asking for some understanding and help with his struggles against his natural urges.



Well, then I guess the only thing I think we disagree on is how literally we are to take the argument. Literally speaking, that is all he is saying, yes.

However, I believe (it is only an opinion) that it goes deeper.

So yes. Blame vs. taunt. We can't be sure of the dude's intent, and we can read further into it or not. I think even in it's most simplistic form, it's a very fine (and dangerous) line... (Dangerous because it will piss off a lot of angry feminists!! ;))



Thats because you're a woman. Men can read a piece of text or hear someone talk and get the message being portrayed. Whereas women always, without exception find some hidden meaning or read something between the lines. Usually something that happens to fit their world view/mental state at that moment.

Men, for the most part, are fairly straightforward and say what they mean with plain words. Women on the other hand talk a lot and assume that the receiver can decipher their mental state and the true uncommunicated meaning behind their words.
Your rights end where my feelings begin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Thats because you're a woman. Men can read a piece of text or hear someone talk and get the message being portrayed. Whereas women always, without exception find some hidden meaning or read something between the lines. Usually something that happens to fit their world view/mental state at that moment.

Men, for the most part, are fairly straightforward and say what they mean with plain words. Women on the other hand talk a lot and assume that the receiver can decipher their mental state and the true uncommunicated meaning behind their words.



Lemme get this straight... You're arguing that men are simple and women are complicated?

Do you not see the flaw in that argument? Oops, how silly of me... Let me spell it out for you:

Man = simple = dumb
Woman = complicated = intelligent

Or am I reading between the lines?!! :D;)
"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Or am I reading between the lines?!!



You need to stop worrying your pretty little head, baby...
;)



Too right, tabarnak!!! :D:D:D
"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I didn't make it more than a minute or two into it, but it sounds like the speaker, who every day prays for help battling his temptation, lusts, unclean thoughts, etc. is a misguided schmuck trying to fight against nature. Let me say there is nothing wrong with good old lust, pleasure and desires. It's what makes life worth living. B|

Once again someone wants to use religion to control others to fix their problems. :S

I didn't get to the violence and aggression part (I need to get ready for work) but it sounds like more of the old "blame the victim" crap that gets pedaled out.



+1

I got about half way into that tripe... before the retching started>:(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


Or am I reading between the lines?!! :D;)



That and also you're projecting meaning into words and behaviors that don't have that meaning.

Being straightforward and saying what you mean doesn't make one simple or dumb. Or being indirect and unable to say what you mean doesn't make one intelligent.

It has more to do with being able to stand behind what you say and taking responsibility over what you're saying. Women being indirect and unclear with what they're saying leave the responsibility to the listener over what they've said and should something they've said have some negative consequences weasel they're way out of what they've said. Men being direct with what they're saying leave no room for interpretation which forces them to stand behind what they've said.
Your rights end where my feelings begin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0