Wings Issue Repaired

[sdctlc 0]

Hello all....... I am following up on my Wings container that I received at the beginning of last year! Love it but there was one thing I was not happy about. It is refered to in the following thread:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=891395#891395

On the reserve tray there was what I called a "Catch" Never really bothered me but noted it when packing the first time. Not a big deal but it did generate a few very interesting openings with one riser set or line group getting "caught" for a breif time. I could feel it on deployment and ended up with line twists when it happened. Simple fix was to change packing method and not get the risers all the way into the channel. I ended up adjusting my pack to include a set that after I was getting the main bag in the tray I would bring "up" the main risers onto the side of the reserve tray and out of the channel. Once I started doing this no more problems.

Well I let Sunrise know and through the help of a local Wings dealer who also contacted them about it after looking at it and seeing what I was talking about, Marko contacted me and said they would "correct" this for No charge. I sent it off after christmes and got it back a few weeks later with the "fix" nopted in the pictures.

Very nice work was done, and they made a "Strap" for lack of a better term on the top of my head that runs from the right and left reserve tray lower vertical seams diagonally to the main pack tray creating a soft wall to prevent the lines from being packed under the catch. I have noted before and facter in the attched pics.

Looks like it will do the trick but I will not get a chance to jump it till tomorrow (weather permitting). Interesting way that they came uyp with the fix.. Again I will need to jump and pack a few times to really get a feel for how it is going to work but it looks as though it will solve the issue. The rig has cut in laterials and this seems to be the only wings design that has this. I looked at a few other peoples that dont have the cut in's and they had the reserve tray with no "catch"

Not really a big deal to me once I figured out the cause and adjusted packing to solve the problem BUT Kudos out to Wings for listening to what I was having a issue with and then comming up with and doing a fix. Workmanship looks awesome now I just need to see how it works.... Out of curiosity I was wondering if any body has seen this on a wings, the "catch" that is, and has heard about this as an issue..

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[riggerrob 558]

You got off lucky!
Be thankful that you only suffered a few line twists.
Vector, Javelin, Sidewinder, Talon, etc. owners have torn reserve containers off their harnesses during unstable openings.
The first solution was to change packing methods, routing risers and lines straight down the sides of the main container.
But since skydivers are notoriously illiterate when it comes to packing manuals, we needed a hardware solution.
Troy Loney (RIP) introduced "line guides" when he designed the EOS harness/container for Para-Flite circa 1990.
Parachutes de France adapted line guides to their ATOM in the mid-1990s.
Circa 2000, I suggested line guides to Flying High. Al MacDonald sent me a pattern so I could retrofit line guides to all our Student Sidewinders and now line guides are standard on all new-production Sidewinders.
Line guides have been an intergral part of Aerodyne Icons from the start of production.
Now you have talked Sunrise into installing line guides in Wings. Good! Hopefully line guides will become the production standard.
Just one more step in the process of skydiver-proofing gear.

[sdsouthsask 0]

A jumper at my dropzone was jumping a sidewinder and had an unstable opening and tore his reserve container partially off due to this problem. Al fixed it by installing these.

I just got my new wings container (with cut in laterals) and noticed the catch point but have not had time to contact them regarding this yet. Thanks for the info.
Mark

[Dumpster 0]

Good post - My new Wings was delivered just before Christmas and I haven had it assembled yet- (still recovering from Novenbers' Tib/Fib fracture) I'll take a look at it now and see if I spy the same potential problem.
Thanks for the heads-up!

Easy Does It

[councilman24 36]

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Just one more step in the process of skydiver-proofing gear.

To me it looks more like one more fix to a poorly designed and executed product. Not particularly ragging on Wings, but that "catch" should never have been there. Wings isn't the only one guilty of things like this.

There is nothing about this that shouldn't have been anticipated. As pointed out, fixes have been around for 15 years. And while packing different might help, it still shouldn't be made like that.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[gjhdiver 0]

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Kudos out to Wings for listening to what I was having a issue with and then comming up with and doing a fix. Workmanship looks awesome now I just need to see how it works....

Henri, Marko and the rest of the Wings crew are awesome about customer support. They really do actively respond to customer input and will revise designs based on information from the field immediately. No matter how much effort is put into design and testing, the general skydiving population will think of ways to extend the equipment into new and strange areas. It's how the companies respond to that feedback that really shows the committment to quality.

[johnny1488 1]

I saw that on an Icon recently. I thought it was a decent idea without adding too much bulk and not really having a downside.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[diablopilot 2]

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To me it looks more like one more fix to a poorly designed and executed product.

Agreed.

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Not particularly ragging on Mirage, but that "catch" should never have been there. Mirage isn't the only one guilty of things like this.

It's not a Mirage. Mirages are built with a reinforcement in that location to prevent such things.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[councilman24 36]

[reply
It's not a Mirage. Mirages are built with a reinforcement in that location to prevent such things.

[pbla4024 0]

I think they were added to Advance in 2004.

Fido

[masterrig 1]

You're right! The 'down-side' has to be looked at as well or more than the 'up-side' of a product.


Chuck

[base428 1]

I'm disappointed that others have also had problems with their Wings and bad QC'ing. Apparently nothing has changed since they fixed my death rig, although I'm sure other manufacturers miss some things from time to time. Unfortunately, one miss can cause a fatality.

My rig had a main bag grommet that was so poorly struck (offset) that I could easily fit about two entire microlines underneath it. My backpad was missing some stitching that allowed me to put two fingers behind it (not a cause of a mal, but should have been noticed in QC).

Original post here

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(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[nicknitro71 0]

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It's not a Mirage. Mirages are built with a reinforcement in that location to prevent such things.

Sure, and then they screw up the location of the cypres cutter...

I have a Wings and it's a well built rig. I would buy another one in a heart beat.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[gjhdiver 0]

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I'm disappointed that others have also had problems with their Wings and bad QC'ing.

Now now Jason, take a deep breath. No one in the industry likes to think that they let poor workmanship out of the door, but it happens. There isn't a rig made by any company that hasn't been sent back by a customer. No matter what QC is in place, there's going to be materials and construction issues that get by to the public. It's int he nature of any manufacturing process.

As active jumpers, it's also up to us to inspect our gear too when we get it. You did, found the problem, and the Wings guys sorted it out for you at hopefully no expense, and as little inconvenience as possible.

I see Mirage having an issue right now and dealing with it in a preofessional manner. Aerodyne had theirs recently and did the same. Sunpath just finished a directive on their students rigs. All of the companies want to keep confidence in their product high.

The bottom line is that it's up to all of us to be involved in the quality control of every manufacturer. I know for a fact that no manufacturer wants to see a substandard piece of equipment go out the door, but if it does, it's up to us to spot it and hold them to a high level of product support. I believe all the major players step up to this.

[base428 1]

Thanks for calming me down Gjhdiver. Unfortunately, it's my duty to tell others about my faulty rig because the next guy *might not* inspect his rig as well as you and me. Plus, there are some minor mistakes that make it through QC, and then there's MY rig. I still jump my Wings rig and I like it. Ya just gotta get out the magnifying glass and inspect the new ones. Constructive criticism only makes us smarter...

Cya.

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Now now Jason, take a deep breath.

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[upndownshop 0]

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You got off lucky!
Be thankful that you only suffered a few line twists.
Vector, Javelin, Sidewinder, Talon, etc. owners have torn reserve containers off their harnesses during unstable openings.

One of the new features of the Odyssey besides internal risers covers is a seamless (bottom corners) reserve tray. Thus eliminating any snag points without the need for additional protection.

Years ago(many) wrapping the risers down and around the reserve tray was done all the time, hell you had to, the risers were like, what 3' long?
Today, I don't think any manufacturer recommends that. I believe they all suggest the risers run straight down the rig.

I sold my G4 (for obvious reasons) last year what protection did/do they have, I didn't quite understand the other description?

[gjhdiver 0]

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Thanks for calming me down Gjhdiver. Unfortunately, it's my duty to tell others about my faulty rig because the next guy *might not* inspect his rig as well as you and me. Plus, there are some minor mistakes that make it through QC, and then there's MY rig. I still jump my Wings rig and I like it. Ya just gotta get out the magnifying glass and inspect the new ones. Constructive criticism only makes us smarter...

Cya.

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Yup. Couldn't agree more. That's pretty much what I was saying there.

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[diablopilot 2]

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Sure, and then they screw up the location of the cypres cutter...

Obviously you don't know what you're talking about.


So where is the cutter on your wings?


j.a.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

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There isn't a rig made by any company that hasn't been sent back by a customer. No matter what QC is in place,

Absofreakinloutly.

I'm glad Sunrise Rigging is addressing the problem. Hopefuly it prompts a design change. Good to see them owning up, as some manufacturers haven't.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Chrisky 0]

Do Wings and Mirages share the same reserve container flap design? Is this getting off topic?

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[sdctlc 0]

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As active jumpers, it's also up to us to inspect our gear too when we get it. You did, found the problem, and the Wings guys sorted it out for you at hopefully no expense, and as little inconvenience as possible.

Ok now, I started this thread nad I am going to add a few more cents into it. My Wings is an outstanding rig, its comfortable and works great! The problem was noted by me the day i put the reserve in it the first time. I noted the problem and made allowences to address it. Once I had the packing down (every rig I have owned has had its own little tricks to it) it was NEVER and issue again. I let Sunrise know and they were very happy to assist. YOU CANT ASK FOR MORE! QC at every place will let one get by but it is how they respond that makes the difference. they stepped up and did a graet job, fast and clean.. Hopefully they make a manufacturing change and the issue is truley a non-issue

Another rig I have had a problem that the manufacturer gladly fixed while I waited. They did this even though I bought the rig used. Another example of outstanding support.
I am not going to defend a company and say one is flat out beter then another as every one out there has had problems of some sort.. THE TRUE TEST IS HOW THEY RESPOND! I say again Kudos to Sunrise for stepping up and fixing the issue I had. I would by another one.

NOW that said personal responsibility is key in life and in THIS SPORT! I inspect very carefully all of my gerar and treat it very well. It saves my life after all. Garath hit the nail on the head regarding jumpers noting the condition of their gear. EVERYONE SHOULD DO IT! Inspect your gear on a regular basis and you will find little things to fix or repair, be it wear and tear or a minor problem that might have bneen there all along finally to a majoy issue that needs to be addressed, it is ultimately up to you to decide to jump the gear you jump......

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[diablopilot 2]

Nope.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[DexterBase 0]

It'll be interesting to see if they issue a service bulletin to fix the problem on other rigs that are being jumped in the field. I'm sure many jumpers are happily jumping away not even knowing a potentially fatal flaw exists on their gear.

I love seeing a manufacturer identify a problem and then take active steps to prevent it from causing an incident.

[nicknitro71 0]

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Obviously you don't know what you're talking about

I never do and I wish I had your knowledge and wisdom.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[diablopilot 2]

Right. Sarcasam. Got that.

You're statemenet that Mirage placed the Cypres cutter mounting location improperly, was nothing more than inflamitory. When was it incorrect? Before or after the SB? Either location was approved by the AAD manufacturer. So what's your beef?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.