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kkeenan

Bicycle Accidents

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... However, on the other side, I do see a lot of them breaking the local traffic laws. Just last month I came close to hitting one who was crossing the intersection in violation of the local traffic laws.

Bikes simply do not win when 'playing' with cars/trucks/etc.

JerryBaumchen



This.

I routinely see bicyclist blow through red lights and stop signs, ride down the wrong side of the road or the wrong way on one way streets, acting as if the traffic rules don't apply to them.

I realize that they have the same rights as other vehicles, but it's often difficult to treat them as such when so many seem to ignore the responsibilities that being a "vehicle" entails.

And yes, I realize that I am probably seeing a minority doing the wrong thing, but it really stands out.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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I've been watching this thread for awhile, and given that I have a lot of miles both as a driver and as a bicyclist, I can see both sides of this.

Yes, the driver idiot/a**holes are legion, but the bicyclist ignoramuses are even more common.

Most on bicycles are never taught how to ride safely. They seem to think that by putting on cool biking gear that they become cool and they rule the road. They don't seem to understand that they are required to observe the same laws as the cars. Just to name a few of the most blatant:

* Ride in the direction of traffic (duh!) I see the opposite all the time.

* If you are going slower than traffic, move to the right most place, effer! I have many times pedaled faster than the traffic, so this is only a comment on 90% of bicycling.

* If you need to turn left, and you can't do it without being a danger, get off of the bike and become a pedestrian. OK, I know this isn't cool, but you don't get points for cool if you are dead.

* If there isn't a designated bike lane (or a big ass shoulder) DO NOT RIDE SIDE-BY-SIDE!

*Oh! SIGNAL WHERE THE HECK YOU INTEND TO GO! In plenty of time for the cars to see where you want to be-- you would be surprised to find out that they will give you a break, and the fact that you stuck your arm out woke them up and made you visible.

My rant,

lisa

p.s Put a helmet on, I lost a very good friend in '88 due to head injury. :(

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

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Agree 100%

Sales of bikes has rocketed in the U.K recently (what with fuel prices being so high and all) - so there are more and more 'untrained' 'inexperienced' cyclists on our roads and you do see some of them doing the damdest things
  • At junctions (left in our case) : cycling up the kerb side of turning vehicles (buses and lorries in particular) in town will get you killed!!
  • not obeying street signs and traffic lights
    etc..etc..

    A couple of hour in Cambridge will show you how stupid and inconsiderate some bike cyclists can be ... and unfortunately, the bad ones give the rest of us a bad name - so people start to treat you all the same and guess who comes off worst?

    (.)Y(.)
    Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
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    its sad that people die nd sorry top hear about it in these situation[:/], i personally think part of the problem is planning. Coming from a motorbike background as well as being a car driver. We are in the same boat as cyclists as far as injury and death, it's just we go faster and it can be more catastrophic when we have accidents but are just as exposed.

    When a youngster many moons ago:D, i always would ride my bike on the footpaths and never had any problems, Don't understand why planners and town/road designers don't separate the bike traffic from cars and cut this kind of injury out completely. They could put in cycles only paths(is starting to happen here in my country) or on the edge footpaths . It would i believe cut down the death and injury that happens on roadways regardless of who is to blame. As that can be due to a seconds miss attention on a drivers, pedestrian or cyclist we are all human and make mistakes its all about minimizing risk as jumpers we Know about that


    Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun


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    you guys can be pissed and flame me all you want, I'm just telling you the reality here. If you ride your bicycle in busy motorways you can expect to encounter problems. Period. I didn't make up the rules here fellas. And just because you think you have the law on your side doesn't negate the fact that you've been run the fuck over. I stand by my original statement. Stay out of traffic. All this being said, you're not bothering me, but I don't have a job or anywhere to be.

    You can have your sense of entitlement if you want to. I'm gonna stick to the laws of physics.

    Randy "stay the fuck out of traffic you stupid motherfucker" Rodriguez
    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!



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    you guys can be pissed and flame me all you want, I'm just telling you the reality here. If you ride your bicycle in busy motorways you can expect to encounter problems. Period. I didn't make up the rules here fellas. And just because you think you have the law on your side doesn't negate the fact that you've been run the fuck over. I stand by my original statement. Stay out of traffic. All this being said, you're not bothering me, but I don't have a job or anywhere to be.



    Just to clarify, it was reported that Brent McClarty of DeLand, the most recent skydiver who was killed, was riding in the bike lane when he got hit.
    She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
    because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

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    you guys can be pissed and flame me all you want, I'm just telling you the reality here. If you ride your bicycle in busy motorways you can expect to encounter problems. Period. I didn't make up the rules here fellas. And just because you think you have the law on your side doesn't negate the fact that you've been run the fuck over. I stand by my original statement. Stay out of traffic. All this being said, you're not bothering me, but I don't have a job or anywhere to be.

    You can have your sense of entitlement if you want to. I'm gonna stick to the laws of physics.

    Randy "stay the fuck out of traffic you stupid motherfucker" Rodriguez



    Kevin, Thanks for starting this - Maybe a few more people with think about it.

    Towerrat, I don't know who you are , but you need to lighten up... It is not a war and we need to get along. Life in general is too hard to have simple conflicts.

    As someone who loves to ride bikes and motorcycles I am really starting to get gun shy. I generally ride my bicycle about 100 miles a week on bike paths, beside the road and off road on trails and I'm really questioning the rides on the highway. I do it for fun and exercise and maybe it has just become too dangerous.

    Ride correctly with traffic and you cannot see traffic coming at you. Mirrors don't seem to work well. Ride against traffic and drivers don't expect you at side streets.

    Motorcycles are another whole issue. I just pretend that I am invisible.

    I was planning to go on my regular 33 mile bike ride today and have decided against it. Maybe I'll just do something safer and go skydiving!
    Dano

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    I'm just telling you the reality here



    No, you're telling us your opinion. And you're still completely wrong.

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    I didn't make up the rules here fellas.



    Then you should realise that your attempts to tell us what to do mean sweet fuck all.

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    I stand by my original statement. Stay out of traffic.



    No. Deal with it.
    Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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    Very sorry to hear about your friends, and there's no doubt some car drivers are idiots when it comes to sharing the road with cyclists.

    Me? I'm nervous around them, which is probably a good thing. At many busy junctions in the UK now we have a box marked out in the road for cyclists, ahead of the line where motor vehicles are meant to stop. That keeps them visible, which is great, but of course as soon as the traffic moves off again you're overtaking them. I used to get annoyed at cyclists who jump red lights, but on the whole now I prefer that they do that rather than be bunched up in my path at junctions.

    The thing that still really bugs me is the number of cyclists who ride at night without lights or even light-coloured clothing. It's like, you want not only to be super vulnerable but also practically invisible? :|

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    At one point, about half the fatalities on bikes were because the cyclist was riding against traffic, and half were riding at night, so if you didn't do either, you were relatively safe.

    I don't know what the stats say nowadays, but seems to me that those two things are still a bad idea.

    eta: I'm watching The Flying Scotsman while the wind is blowing something fierce, hoping the power doesn't go out again.
    lisa
    WSCR 594
    FB 1023
    CBDB 9

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    I routinely see motorists doing the same thing. Doesn't mean I hate ALL motorists. I'm all for punishing cyclists for violating the law but you better damn well do the same for motorists. There are more and more bikes on the road. One cyclists life should be worth all your time.

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    >If you ride your bicycle in busy motorways you can expect to encounter problems. Period.

    Agreed. And if you are the motorist who causes those problems, you may be going to jail for a long time. Period.

    This isn't a war. Bicycles, motorcycles and cars are all entitled to use the road, and they all can use the road safely. A lot of drivers have no clue how to drive safely with bikes; you see this all the time with the "get out of the road!" "get on the sidewalk!" "you're not allowed to be here!" comments. A lot of bikers don't know the rules either, and ride against traffic, try to hug the side of the road where it's inappropriate etc. Both these problems can be helped via education.

    I see this as something on a par with swooping. For a long time swooping in crowded patterns was OK, mainly because no one cared enough to put a stop to it. Then more people started getting killed and DZ's started to come down on it, hard. A lot of people got talked to, some people got grounded. And while there's still a problem with it, at least people are now more aware of the problem, and they have a tool to solve it.

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    Maybe I don't understand completely, but if you were willing to testify, why did the authorities allow the driver to plead to a lesser charge?


    It's part of the game. Officers and prosecutor just want to clear cases, and are willing to allow anyone to plead to a lower charge just to avoid the time they all (judge, prosecutor, attorneys, cop, witnesses, court recorder, bailiff, etc) would have to spend for a 30 minute bench trial. Defendent waits until the last minute to see if the witnesses show up: if they don't, they win, if they do, they plead out on the spot.

    You can do the same thing if you ever cause an accident: make sure the other guy gets paid off to his satisfaction, and 99% chance he won't appear (in the middle of a work day) to testify against you. (Not that he wants you to get off, but with his car repaired already, 3 months later he isn't going feel that foregoing an afternoons income is worth it to do his civic duty.)

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    Word on the street is that the guy who hit Brent was a young man driving a Brighthouse van and who was texting while driving. [:/]

    She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
    because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

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    The whole aspect of the accident is so heartbreaking and senseless. A good man dies because someone is selfish, driving and texting and it will be written off as "oh well."

    One of these days the public will become serious about driving in the US and we will stop feeling that no one is responsible and yet everyone is to blame.

    We allow drinking and driving, we allow the use of a cell phone while driving and seem to place little value on human life at the expense of convenience.

    Too many innocent bystanders die so that many guilty can continue to evoke harm. There just doesn't seem to be logic in our actions.
    Dano

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    As a cyclist, I "encounter" dozens of cars, trucks, and buses on the road on my way to and from work. My odds of having to deal with a dangerous idiot driver are a lot higher than the odds that any of them have to deal with a dangerous idiot cyclist. So there's not as much reciprocity there as you may think.

    The roads I ride to work have a 40 mph limit but it's usually busy hours so lights get backed up and it can be slow going for motorists. I very quickly realized just how impatient and idiotic the decision making of most (yes most) drivers are during their work commute. People go so far out of their way to pass me regardless of how wide or narrow the lane happens to be at the moment only to end up stuck behind backed up cars 100 yards down the road.

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    In the last 2 weeks, I have lost two friends from our skydiving community in bicycle wrecks, one in Arizona and one in Florida. Both were hit from behind while riding in proper bike lanes.

    I know this stuff happens, but please, be aware of these fragile humans sharing the roadway. I'm sure that everyone who rides a bicycle on the road has many close calls, and it is a matter of inches that determine the difference between a scary story and a funeral. I get a chill now every time I pass a bike on the road.

    Please be careful.

    Kevin K.



    If everyone using a road: motorists, cyclists AND pedestrians, were a bit more considerate and followed the rules they are supposed to follow then we'd have fewer accidents and fewer pissed-off people.

    (Except that traffic lights are the work of Satan).
    ...

    The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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    @Jakee

    I always get a giggle out of you guys that think you're so "hard" over the internet". I'd be willing to bet that if we were having this conversation in a bar you'd never attempt to speak to another grown man like that.

    As to the rest of you, I never said it was right. I said this is what happens when you ride your bicycle in traffic. There are safe places to ride, use them. As for the latest incident being in the bike lane, that is tragic. However, if argued long enough we have a legal "right" to skydive into some of the busiest airports in the world. Doesn't make it smart.
    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!



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    Don't mind the "it's all about me" crowd. They are always right and everyone else is always wrong.

    Take Jakee's comments for verification of that. He drops in from some unknown planet every once in a while to post stupid shit and then goes back home. Don't let his foolishness get to you....it's his way of communication.

    And I agree. It's a two way street. You want to play in traffic with 3000 lb machines, you can expect to come out on the short end of the stick at some point.

    Bikers, in all too any cases, seem to think that they own the road and all motor vehicle drivers are out to kill them. Well, no, they don't own the road and yes, it is a good idea to assume that all vehicle drivers ARE out to kill you.

    Question for you bikers:
    When there are other route options, why do you insist on riding in the road mixing it up with 3000 lb machines? It seem to me to be just so much common sense to ride, say, a sidewalk instead of a road when you can.

    When there are other route options, why do you want to suck smog in the middle of traffic? It seem to me to be just so much common sense to ride, say, a back street instead of a main road when you can.

    Why do you guys do stupid shit purposely screwing with drivers like two-abreast, disobeying traffic rules of the road, taking right of way when you really don't have it, kicking cars as they pass, flipping off drivers, not looking where you are going, not signaling, and on and on and on.

    Randy is right...the reality is that riding in the street with 3000 lb machines IS dangerous....both for you AND for the drivers.

    It seems to me that just from a simple self-preservation standpoint, one would want to be as cautious as possible.

    And no, Jakee, it's not just about riders. It's about all of us doing what's necessary to share what resources we have and minimizing conflict whenever we can.
    My reality and yours are quite different.
    I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
    Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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    I always get a giggle out of you guys that think you're so "hard" over the internet".



    So you're sitting there laughing at yourself right now, are you? I don't know if you've noticed but there's only one person in this thread calling other people stupid motherfuckers and it isn't me.

    So make a choice, you can keep trying to act like the hardest kid in the playground or you can ask for civility, doing both just makes you look stupid.

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    I said this is what happens when you ride your bicycle in traffic.



    I'm well aware of the risks of riding on the road, and I accept them. That doesn't mean I have to tolerate careless, impatient or intentionally aggressive drivers. Why should it? And y'know, many times more pedestrians than cyclists are killed each year - is it stupid to cross the road because a careless motorist might blast straight through the lights? Many times more motorists than cyclists are killed each year, is it stupid to use a road full stop?

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    There are safe places to ride, use them.



    Still waiting for your alternative suggestions for my route. While you're at it maybe you could talk to these guys. I'm sure one of the largest sports in the world will be happy for suggestions.
    Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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    Don't let his foolishness get to you....



    Yeah, I've only got the rules of the road on my side and the reality that it's generally impossible to go on a reasonable distance ride without going on the road... oh, and I'm only backed up by 35,000 people with membership in the national competitive body, and an estimated 2 million regular cyclists in my country alone - what crazy unknown foolishness!

    Have you ever considered playing the ball instead of the player, even just once?
    Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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    say, a sidewalk instead of a road when you can.


    You just proved your ignorance on the subject of traffic laws.

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    screwing with drivers like two-abreast,


    More ignorance.


    For someone who claims he's so well informed when talking about instruction, why don't you try educating yourself on something you do every day and puts the lives of many others in danger?
    Remster

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    It seem to me to be just so much common sense to ride, say, a sidewalk instead of a road when you can.
    ...

    Why do you guys do stupid shit purposely screwing with drivers like two-abreast..



    * Riding on the sidewalk is illegal in many cities.

    * Riding two-abreast is legal in CO for motorcycles and bicycles, as long as you are not obstructing traffic. i.e. as long as the cars can pass.

    Roads have been built and maintained my humans for thousands of years. Cars have been around for about 100 years. There was never a transition point at which cars became the owners of the road. It would be pretty bizarre to make a law that only car owners were allowed to use the roads because:

    1. Fuel taxes only pay a portion of road maintenance. The general fund (ie taxes everyone pays) make up the difference.

    2. Banning the use of the roads by people not owning cars would be prohibiting free travel which is a right of every citizen.

    Where I grew up in Northern IN, we had no problem sharing the road with slow-moving farm machinery, Amish horse-drawn buggies, and bicycles. We all understood the roads exist for everyone.
    "There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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    For both motorists and cyclists.

    Summary of Missouri State Statutes Related to Bicycling
    • Motorists may not do anything, even something that otherwise appears to be legal, that endangers a bicyclist, pedestrian, or other motorist. Safety, not speed, is the highest consideration in traffic law.
    • In Missouri, bicycles and motorized bicycles may ride on any street except travel lanes of interstate highways or where prevented by local law.
    • Bicyclists have the same rules, rights and responsibilities as other drivers. For example, bicyclists must stop at stop signs, signal turns, and drive on the right-hand side of the road.
    • This means that motorists must treat bicycles as any other vehicle. For instance, do not pull out in front of a moving bicyclist, cut a bicyclist off, or pass a bicyclist unsafely.
    • When traveling slower than traffic, bicyclists generally move to the right of the travel lanes, just as other slow moving vehicles do. But do not expect bicyclists to hug the curb, dodge in and out between parked cars, or ride on a debris-covered shoulder. Bicycling that way is not safe, and the law requires bicyclists to ride safely.
    • If the lane is too narrow to safely share between a bicycle and a motor vehicle, the bicycle may move towards the center of the lane so as to discourage motor vehicles from dangerously squeezing past in the lane. If you see a bicyclist riding in the middle of the lane in this way, the bicyclist is following the law. Slow and wait behind the bicyclist until it is safe to move into the next lane to pass.
    • Bicyclists may sometimes ride the shoulder of the road when available. But they are not required by law to do so. Obstacles in the shoulder such as glass, debris, or rough pavement may not be obvious to the motorist but may be very dangerous to the bicyclist.
    • Bicycle lanes may not be blocked or used for parking. Motorists must signal and yield to any bicyclists in the lane before crossing a bicycle lane. As with shoulders, bicyclists may leave the bike lane for any number of reasons, including debris, obstacles, or to prepare for a turn.
    Bicycle-related Quotes from the Missouri Driver Guide
    • “On public streets and highways, [bicyclists] have the same rights and responsibilities as a motor vehicle operator.”
    • “If you are following a bicyclist and need to make a right turn, you must yield to the cyclist. It is often safer to slow down and remain behind the cyclist until you are able to turn.”
    • “Motorcyclists and bicyclists change speed and lane position when encountering bad road conditions, such as manhole covers, diagonal railroad tracks, road debris or in strong winds. Be ready to react.”
    • “When you are passing, give motorcycles a full lane width. If possible, give a full lane to bicycles and mopeds, too. Do not squeeze past these road users. The bicycle is generally a slower moving vehicle and this may require you to slow down. Wait for a clear stretch of road before passing a cyclist in a lane too narrow to share.”
    • "The operator of a motor vehicle overtaking a bicycle proceeding in the same direction . . . shall leave a safe distance when passing the bicycle, and shall maintain clearance until safely past the overtaken bicycle." Passing unsafely is a traffic offense punishable by driver license points, fines, and even jail, if a collision results.
    • “The law says who must yield the right-of-way; it does not give anyone the right-of-way. You must do everything you can to prevent striking a pedestrian or another vehicle, regardless of the circumstances.”
    • “Sharing the road with others, in a considerate manner, makes the road safer for everybody!”

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