Judge Bans skydiving? Legal

[wmw999 2,114]

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IMO a marriage is a life long contract so before you do the deed better be sure your marrying the right person. Having children to argue over just prolongs the pain and means more lawyer time.

Even if the contract has to be terminated, remember that at one time you respected the person enough to commit to them, and to make a baby with them. It's likely that the good qualities they had at the time you met them still exist.

Just as beer goggles can cause errors in judgment, so can dislike and pissed-off-ness. Always question your first impression in emotional situations, and see how much of it is based on reason.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Madison 0]

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If it's banned during visitation who cares. Why would he want to spend his time jumping when he is supposed to be visiting his kid anyway?

Believe it or not, kids don't like being suffocated by a parent no matter how often they see them.
Spending time with a child doesn't mean every waking moment should be devoted to them.
Also, children are happy when their parents are happy. Kids know when their parents are miserable or not. They don't want miserable parents.
They also enjoy meeting their parents friends because they realize these people play a large role in their parent's happiness.

One of my dear friends, who is a longtime jumper and a straight up decent person, had to accept, as part of the partial custody, that he was not allowed at the DZ when he had his daughters. He got them on weekends, the only days of the week he could jump. His bitter ex knew exactly what she was doing to him.
It sucked because those kids had fun at the dz and liked to see their Dad having fun.

I am a single parent and my son, now 19, was at the dz since he was 5. He is grateful for my jumping as it made me happy, my friends made me happy, and he has lots of memories of him being happy. Go figure, a place full of life with the best people I've ever met. Who gets to determine what quality time between a parent and their child is? I think the parent and the child.
*unless the kids are brats, then keep em at home for some quality discipline time :)*

Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

[eeneR 1]

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eeneR, Southern Man and Aggie Dave are correct (regardless of whether one agrees with the judge's decision or not).

And that is what I said, that the judge can in fact make a decision like that? I didnt disagree with what was said?

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[Para5-0 0]

I just cant sit here and wrap my arms around this idea. A judge can determine what is good or bad for your own child. I think it makes our sport look bad. I also want to know what criteria was used to single out this sport. Do judges take this stance on all activities.

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi Para,

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A judge can determine what is good or bad for your own child.

Are you kidding or are you for real?

That is what they are there for; to judge.

Almost everyone disagrees with a judge's decision(s) at some times in their life; I know I did when I got divorced.

C'est la vie,

JerryBaumchen

[Southern_Man 0]

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I just cant sit here and wrap my arms around this idea. A judge can determine what is good or bad for your own child. I think it makes our sport look bad. I also want to know what criteria was used to single out this sport. Do judges take this stance on all activities.

I agree with you that I don't necessarily think this is the way it "should" work. I agree that parents, even divorced parents and maybe especially divorced parents, should be the ones who decide how to spend time with their children. In effect what this judges decision does is allow one parent to control how the other parent spends time with his children. This is just awful and sets up awful post-divorce dynamics that are not beneficial to the children.

The judge does not need any specific statuatory authority to prevent somebody from skydiving during visitation. He just does it because he wants to. Doesn't really need any reason at all. It is capriciousness at its worst.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Krip 2]

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This is the USA
If daddy wants to hire a lawyer to plead his case in court thats his option as long as he has the money.

There will be plenty of lawyers that will be standing in line to plead this poor guy's case all the way no mater the cost.
Win or lose.

I suspect there is one pissd off X wife that will stop at nothing to get even with her x, with the poor kid caught in the middle.

FWIW I'm not a lawyer

R.

Sure, but what is the cost benefit analysis going in?

Is the guy a full time skydiver who depends on the jumps to earn a living or is he a fun jumper?

Also, whose to say that skydiving was a significant factor in the marriage falling apart in the first place? Whose to say that the child isn't old enough to say that he doesn't like going to the dropzone? Maybe the guy has a drug problem and spending a weekend on the DZ is how he gets wrapped up in it?

The point is we don't know enough to make any sort of real opinion besides that it sucks for that guy. We all love skydiving, that's what brought us here, but the only person who has heard both sides of the good and bad is the judge and that judge set for the conditions.

Hi AD

As usual your points are spot on.

I don't know how to quantify the benefit of a parent getting to see their kids. Except to say that its probably priceless to a responsiable parent.

OTOH the cost can be very steep. Because most lawyers can't afford to work for free.

I wonder if the jumper is looking at USPA for help
with his legal bills? or just wants jumpers to write a letter to the judge based on in adequate info.

R.

[Andy9o8 0]

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It is capriciousness at its worst.

We can't know that, or state it with certainty. We weren't in the courtroom; we didn't hear the evidence.

[AggieDave 6]

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I wonder if the jumper is looking at USPA for help
with his legal bills? or just wants jumpers to write a letter to the judge based on in adequate info.
R.

We could only hope that the jumper approached the USPA for advice and possible documentation to help his cause. If he was asking for financial assistance, we can only hope that he was either turned down or offered the chance to start up a demo team from scratch.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Amazon 7]

Zing

[davelepka 4]

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One of my dear friends, who is a longtime jumper and a straight up decent person, had to accept, as part of the partial custody, that he was not allowed at the DZ when he had his daughters. He got them on weekends, the only days of the week he could jump. His bitter ex knew exactly what she was doing to him.
It sucked because those kids had fun at the dz and liked to see their Dad having fun.

I am also a divorced dad, and also take my kids with me to the DZ sometimes when I have them. Most of the time they have fun, and some of the time they 'take one for the team' and sit around bored while I have some fun. In either case, we only go to the DZ when they have no other plans or previous commitments, their stuff always comes before my stuff.

That said, I have known some single fathers who brnig their kids to the DZ in a much less responsible way. One kid, in fact, was known amongst other jumpers as a DZ 'orphan' because when he was there he was straight up 'on his own' (and this kid was about 10 at the time). It was to the point that me and my then wife would pack extra snacks and food for this kid, just to make sure he was cared for. Now I'm not suggesting this guy didn't care for his kid, but when he was at the DZ, others tended to do more of the 'caring'.

At the end of the day, we don't know the circumstances of the guy this thread is about. Sure, maybe his ex is hitting him where it hurts by bringing skydiving into the divorce, but at the same time, skydiving might have been a point of contention that led to the divorce, so it was already involved before the ex brought it up in court.

The guy needs to buck up and deal with it. Skydiving isn't going anywhere, and court orders can be withdrawn and re-written. Soon enough, his kids will grow up and prefer to spend time with their friends anyway, and even on weekends when he 'has' them, he won't really 'have' them because they'll be off doing their own thing.

[diablopilot 2]

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Golf is dangerous?

http://www.bls.gov/opub/cwc/sh20080416ar01p1.htm

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

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I wonder if the jumper is looking at USPA for help
with his legal bills? or just wants jumpers to write a letter to the judge based on in adequate info.
R.

We could only hope that the jumper approached the USPA for advice and possible documentation to help his cause. If he was asking for financial assistance, we can only hope that he was either turned down or offered the chance to start up a demo team from scratch.

For the win.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[airtwardo 6]

We could only hope that the jumper approached the USPA for advice and possible documentation to help his cause. If he was asking for financial assistance, we can only hope that he was either turned down or offered the chance to start up a demo team from scratch.

Um, hey ...you're ON FIRE!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[shah269 0]

I'm not going to read two pages but...THAT FRACKING BITCH! Thank god he dumped her ass!

Now let's see...have the kid sit at home playing Xbox and stay inside and turn into a blob....OR
Have the little one come out see airplanes and help the packers and get some sun light and have a good time?


I don't know...thos packers are sure dangerous if you ask me!

WTF! is wrong with that judge?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[Southern_Man 0]

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It is capriciousness at its worst.

We can't know that, or state it with certainty. We weren't in the courtroom; we didn't hear the evidence.

I was not referring to the particulars of this decision. I believe the entire system, wherein we all agreed that family court judges can pretty much do whatever they want, is capricious.

I tend to think this particular decision is an outgrowth of that capriciousness but you are right, without being in the courtroom there is no way to state that with certainty.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[billvon 2,379]

>I just cant sit here and wrap my arms around this idea. A judge can
>determine what is good or bad for your own child.

Well, 99.99% of the time both parents decide that together. When they can't, when they have to go to court to fight over what's better for him, someone else has to make the decision. (Needless to say it is much better to never get there in the first place.)

>I think it makes our sport look bad. I also want to know what criteria was
>used to single out this sport. Do judges take this stance on all activities.

Who knows? Maybe the kid gets offered beer and drugs there. Maybe the dad ignores him for 12 hours when he's at the DZ. Reasons like that are why people go before a judge to get things decided.

[JohnRich 4]

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Golf is dangerous?

http://www.bls.gov/opub/cwc/sh20080416ar01p1.htm

Those stats are a bit goofy. For example, five people have died in the last five years when airplanes crashed on golf courses, and they count those as "golf course associated fatalities". That seems stupid to me, because the golf course had zero to do with the cause of the fatalities. Ditto for the suicides which just happened to occur on a golf course. Using this kind of reasoning we might conclude that hospital emergency rooms are the biggest killers in America!

[billvon 2,379]

>In effect what this judges decision does is allow one parent to control how
>the other parent spends time with his children.

Yes. And the other part of the judge's decision may have been " . . . and the mother can't go out to clubs with the kid any more." It's hard to say what happened with the information we have.

[Ron 7]

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We could only hope that the jumper approached the USPA for advice and possible documentation to help his cause. If he was asking for financial assistance, we can only hope that he was either turned down or offered the chance to start up a demo team from scratch

And I'd like to nominate this as the funniest post of the year.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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I just cant sit here and wrap my arms around this idea. A judge can determine what is good or bad for your own child.

Lots of people think that the Govt knows better how to raise your kids than you... I don't find anything strange with a judge doing this today the way things are.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[theonlyski 3]

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Those stats are a bit goofy. For example, five people have died in the last five years when airplanes crashed on golf courses, and they count those as "golf course associated fatalities". That seems stupid to me, because the golf course had zero to do with the cause of the fatalities. Ditto for the suicides which just happened to occur on a golf course. Using this kind of reasoning we might conclude that hospital emergency rooms are the biggest killers in America!

If they weren't playing golf, they wouldn't have been there when the plane crashed on them. Golf kills!

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[jclalor 12]

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Since the child is "visiting" the parent, the parent should do activities WITH the child, not have the child watch the parent have fun. The dad can skydive when the child is with mom. Since he's already a part-time parent now, that should be a no-brainer.

[skymama 35]

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Believe it or not, kids don't like being suffocated by a parent no matter how often they see them.
Spending time with a child doesn't mean every waking moment should be devoted to them.

I've never known anyone who ever said, "I wish my parents didn't spend so much time with me when I was young."

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[dorbie 0]

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I had a call for some assistance, from a USPA member going through a custody dispute with an ex. The ex told the judge she didnt want him skydiving while he was responsible for the child. The judge bought into it and banned the guy from jumping during visitation. I personally have never heard of such a thing.
How can that be legal. My immediate thoughts are why skydiving? Why not ban him from driving or jogging, or golfing? I dont get it.

Am I completely out of it? Can this be happening out there? A little input would help me help him. I contacted USPA and they had never heard of it happening before.

I didnt even know where to post the question. lol

Skydiving during visitation is not something I have done, but I have taken my kid to the DZ and she had a great time. Considering most of the time spent skydiving is spent on the ground it would be OK provided the kid is adequately supervised when that father is on a load.

This is the key message that he needs to make clear. Sadly custody disputes lead to all sorts of nonsense like this but the judge's concern here would be for the kid, not for the father's right to do what he pleases.

She may have had a valid concern if he was leaving his kid to wander around the DZ while he was on a load, but it sounds more like your usual custody dispute bullshit, with his ex making exaggerated claims about concerns just to stir trouble.